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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10 Sep 2013, 08:09 am
dgk
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Default 1991 Accord 4 cylinder starting issue

Last week it just wouldn't start for a few minutes. Cranks fine but
doesn't start. A minute later it works fine.

A few days ago in my driveway it starts but dies as soon as I release
the key, several times. I try it again a few hours later, same thing.
I call the tow truck, he comes, tries to start it while flooring the
gas. It explodes to life releasing lots of smoke (black I guess). he
slowly lets up on the gas and it stays on at idle. I drive it to the
mechanic, and there is nothing wrong. Starts each time.

The mechanic calls me back an hour later saying that he remembered
that if this happens again, open the gas cap and stick a finger into
the metal ring to make sure that air can get in. Apparently he learned
this trick a while back.

So, any idea what is going on? Since it does catch, it doesn't seem to
be the ignition switch which was my original guess. And it has worked
fine the last few days. Just a fluke?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10 Sep 2013, 09:06 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1991 Accord 4 cylinder starting issue

dgk <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in news95u2957vljp0193hlh9dtcssqd9cn67ne@
4ax.com:

> Last week it just wouldn't start for a few minutes. Cranks fine but
> doesn't start. A minute later it works fine.
>
> A few days ago in my driveway it starts but dies as soon as I release
> the key, several times. I try it again a few hours later, same thing.
> I call the tow truck, he comes, tries to start it while flooring the
> gas. It explodes to life releasing lots of smoke (black I guess). he
> slowly lets up on the gas and it stays on at idle. I drive it to the
> mechanic, and there is nothing wrong. Starts each time.
>
> The mechanic calls me back an hour later saying that he remembered
> that if this happens again, open the gas cap and stick a finger into
> the metal ring to make sure that air can get in. Apparently he learned
> this trick a while back.
>
> So, any idea what is going on? Since it does catch, it doesn't seem to
> be the ignition switch which was my original guess. And it has worked
> fine the last few days. Just a fluke?
>



This sounds like the typical Main Relay problem.

When the engine dies, do all the dash lights come on, or are they dark?


--
Tegger
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10 Sep 2013, 11:55 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1991 Accord 4 cylinder starting issue

On 09/10/2013 06:09 AM, dgk wrote:
> Last week it just wouldn't start for a few minutes. Cranks fine but
> doesn't start. A minute later it works fine.
>
> A few days ago in my driveway it starts but dies as soon as I release
> the key, several times. I try it again a few hours later, same thing.
> I call the tow truck, he comes, tries to start it while flooring the
> gas. It explodes to life releasing lots of smoke (black I guess). he
> slowly lets up on the gas and it stays on at idle. I drive it to the
> mechanic, and there is nothing wrong. Starts each time.
>
> The mechanic calls me back an hour later saying that he remembered
> that if this happens again, open the gas cap and stick a finger into
> the metal ring to make sure that air can get in. Apparently he learned
> this trick a while back.
>
> So, any idea what is going on? Since it does catch, it doesn't seem to
> be the ignition switch which was my original guess. And it has worked
> fine the last few days. Just a fluke?
>


it could have been one-time flooding, spark plug fouling, etc. now it's
running, all the excess fuel's gone, the plugs have cleaned themselves,
and you're back to normal.

or, as tegger says, it could be main relay. but that wouldn't explain
the black smoke because if the relay's out, the injectors don't fire,
and black smoke is excess fuel. but fix the relay anyway, just to
eliminate it from being a future problem. tegger has an instructive
page on how to do that at tegger.com


--
fact check required
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 13 Sep 2013, 07:54 am
dgk
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1991 Accord 4 cylinder starting issue

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:55:40 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 09/10/2013 06:09 AM, dgk wrote:
>> Last week it just wouldn't start for a few minutes. Cranks fine but
>> doesn't start. A minute later it works fine.
>>
>> A few days ago in my driveway it starts but dies as soon as I release
>> the key, several times. I try it again a few hours later, same thing.
>> I call the tow truck, he comes, tries to start it while flooring the
>> gas. It explodes to life releasing lots of smoke (black I guess). he
>> slowly lets up on the gas and it stays on at idle. I drive it to the
>> mechanic, and there is nothing wrong. Starts each time.
>>
>> The mechanic calls me back an hour later saying that he remembered
>> that if this happens again, open the gas cap and stick a finger into
>> the metal ring to make sure that air can get in. Apparently he learned
>> this trick a while back.
>>
>> So, any idea what is going on? Since it does catch, it doesn't seem to
>> be the ignition switch which was my original guess. And it has worked
>> fine the last few days. Just a fluke?
>>

>
>it could have been one-time flooding, spark plug fouling, etc. now it's
>running, all the excess fuel's gone, the plugs have cleaned themselves,
>and you're back to normal.
>
>or, as tegger says, it could be main relay. but that wouldn't explain
>the black smoke because if the relay's out, the injectors don't fire,
>and black smoke is excess fuel. but fix the relay anyway, just to
>eliminate it from being a future problem. tegger has an instructive
>page on how to do that at tegger.com



It's been fine since then, although I only use it once every few days.
I'll take a look and see if I can find the main relay - I did have it
replaced a few years back - or maybe five or six years back. Something
like that, the years all just seem to flow together.

I'm guessing that the burst of smoke was just because of the previous
starting failures; normally the thing doesn't use any oil at all.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 13 Sep 2013, 02:06 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1991 Accord 4 cylinder starting issue

On 09/13/2013 05:54 AM, dgk wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:55:40 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 09/10/2013 06:09 AM, dgk wrote:
>>> Last week it just wouldn't start for a few minutes. Cranks fine but
>>> doesn't start. A minute later it works fine.
>>>
>>> A few days ago in my driveway it starts but dies as soon as I release
>>> the key, several times. I try it again a few hours later, same thing.
>>> I call the tow truck, he comes, tries to start it while flooring the
>>> gas. It explodes to life releasing lots of smoke (black I guess). he
>>> slowly lets up on the gas and it stays on at idle. I drive it to the
>>> mechanic, and there is nothing wrong. Starts each time.
>>>
>>> The mechanic calls me back an hour later saying that he remembered
>>> that if this happens again, open the gas cap and stick a finger into
>>> the metal ring to make sure that air can get in. Apparently he learned
>>> this trick a while back.
>>>
>>> So, any idea what is going on? Since it does catch, it doesn't seem to
>>> be the ignition switch which was my original guess. And it has worked
>>> fine the last few days. Just a fluke?
>>>

>>
>> it could have been one-time flooding, spark plug fouling, etc. now it's
>> running, all the excess fuel's gone, the plugs have cleaned themselves,
>> and you're back to normal.
>>
>> or, as tegger says, it could be main relay. but that wouldn't explain
>> the black smoke because if the relay's out, the injectors don't fire,
>> and black smoke is excess fuel. but fix the relay anyway, just to
>> eliminate it from being a future problem. tegger has an instructive
>> page on how to do that at tegger.com

>
>
> It's been fine since then, although I only use it once every few days.
> I'll take a look and see if I can find the main relay - I did have it
> replaced a few years back - or maybe five or six years back. Something
> like that, the years all just seem to flow together.


new ones are normally good for longer than that - if you've had it
replaced, you should be good for another 5+ years.


>
> I'm guessing that the burst of smoke was just because of the previous
> starting failures; normally the thing doesn't use any oil at all.


that's what i think.

as to difficulty starting, what plugs do you have in there? i've just
had yet another episode with bosch insisting on reminding me they make
the most unreliable plugs on the planet. if you have them in your car,
swap them out for ngk.


--
fact check required
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02 Nov 2013, 06:23 pm
~misfit~
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1991 Accord 4 cylinder starting issue

Somewhere on teh intarwebs dgk wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:55:40 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 09/10/2013 06:09 AM, dgk wrote:
>>> Last week it just wouldn't start for a few minutes. Cranks fine but
>>> doesn't start. A minute later it works fine.
>>>
>>> A few days ago in my driveway it starts but dies as soon as I
>>> release the key, several times. I try it again a few hours later,
>>> same thing. I call the tow truck, he comes, tries to start it while
>>> flooring the gas. It explodes to life releasing lots of smoke
>>> (black I guess). he slowly lets up on the gas and it stays on at
>>> idle. I drive it to the mechanic, and there is nothing wrong.
>>> Starts each time.
>>>
>>> The mechanic calls me back an hour later saying that he remembered
>>> that if this happens again, open the gas cap and stick a finger into
>>> the metal ring to make sure that air can get in. Apparently he
>>> learned this trick a while back.
>>>
>>> So, any idea what is going on? Since it does catch, it doesn't seem
>>> to be the ignition switch which was my original guess. And it has
>>> worked fine the last few days. Just a fluke?
>>>

>>
>> it could have been one-time flooding, spark plug fouling, etc. now
>> it's running, all the excess fuel's gone, the plugs have cleaned
>> themselves, and you're back to normal.
>>
>> or, as tegger says, it could be main relay. but that wouldn't
>> explain the black smoke because if the relay's out, the injectors
>> don't fire, and black smoke is excess fuel. but fix the relay
>> anyway, just to eliminate it from being a future problem. tegger
>> has an instructive page on how to do that at tegger.com

>
>
> It's been fine since then, although I only use it once every few days.
> I'll take a look and see if I can find the main relay - I did have it
> replaced a few years back - or maybe five or six years back. Something
> like that, the years all just seem to flow together.
>
> I'm guessing that the burst of smoke was just because of the previous
> starting failures; normally the thing doesn't use any oil at all.


It wouldn't surprise me if the fuel tank's pressure relief valve is playing
up resulting in hinkey carby levels until the thing's been booted a bit and
fuel level settles.

Black exhaust smoke is usually caused by a very rich fuel mixture rather
than oil. Oil tends to be blue.

If in fact the pressure relief valve hadn't worked properly (as suggested by
your mechanic) when the fuel warmed up it may instead have been pushed into
the carby resulting in high float levels and even pooling in the inlet
manifold. Revving the heck out of it would clear this fuel and allow it to
run fine. Was it extra-hot during the time it wasn't started? Or perhaps
it's jus now the vent decided to play up.

I suppose you're going to reply that it's injected now and trash my theory?
--
/Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1).
[Sent from my OrbitalT ocular implant interface]


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06 Nov 2013, 08:24 am
dgk
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1991 Accord 4 cylinder starting issue

On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:23:24 +1300, "~misfit~"
<shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

>Somewhere on teh intarwebs dgk wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:55:40 -0700, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/10/2013 06:09 AM, dgk wrote:
>>>> Last week it just wouldn't start for a few minutes. Cranks fine but
>>>> doesn't start. A minute later it works fine.
>>>>
>>>> A few days ago in my driveway it starts but dies as soon as I
>>>> release the key, several times. I try it again a few hours later,
>>>> same thing. I call the tow truck, he comes, tries to start it while
>>>> flooring the gas. It explodes to life releasing lots of smoke
>>>> (black I guess). he slowly lets up on the gas and it stays on at
>>>> idle. I drive it to the mechanic, and there is nothing wrong.
>>>> Starts each time.
>>>>
>>>> The mechanic calls me back an hour later saying that he remembered
>>>> that if this happens again, open the gas cap and stick a finger into
>>>> the metal ring to make sure that air can get in. Apparently he
>>>> learned this trick a while back.
>>>>
>>>> So, any idea what is going on? Since it does catch, it doesn't seem
>>>> to be the ignition switch which was my original guess. And it has
>>>> worked fine the last few days. Just a fluke?
>>>>
>>>
>>> it could have been one-time flooding, spark plug fouling, etc. now
>>> it's running, all the excess fuel's gone, the plugs have cleaned
>>> themselves, and you're back to normal.
>>>
>>> or, as tegger says, it could be main relay. but that wouldn't
>>> explain the black smoke because if the relay's out, the injectors
>>> don't fire, and black smoke is excess fuel. but fix the relay
>>> anyway, just to eliminate it from being a future problem. tegger
>>> has an instructive page on how to do that at tegger.com

>>
>>
>> It's been fine since then, although I only use it once every few days.
>> I'll take a look and see if I can find the main relay - I did have it
>> replaced a few years back - or maybe five or six years back. Something
>> like that, the years all just seem to flow together.
>>
>> I'm guessing that the burst of smoke was just because of the previous
>> starting failures; normally the thing doesn't use any oil at all.

>
>It wouldn't surprise me if the fuel tank's pressure relief valve is playing
>up resulting in hinkey carby levels until the thing's been booted a bit and
>fuel level settles.
>
>Black exhaust smoke is usually caused by a very rich fuel mixture rather
>than oil. Oil tends to be blue.
>
>If in fact the pressure relief valve hadn't worked properly (as suggested by
>your mechanic) when the fuel warmed up it may instead have been pushed into
>the carby resulting in high float levels and even pooling in the inlet
>manifold. Revving the heck out of it would clear this fuel and allow it to
>run fine. Was it extra-hot during the time it wasn't started? Or perhaps
>it's jus now the vent decided to play up.
>
>I suppose you're going to reply that it's injected now and trash my theory?


There was nothing unusual about that day. Normally the car sits for
several days in a driveway that slopes pretty steeply downward since
the garage is basement level and that was likely the case at that
time. Since I was supposed to be driving to tennis, that means it was
a Saturday morning and the car had probably been sitting for at least
two days.

I think it is fuel injected.
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