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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07 Jan 2013, 11:10 am
Al Moodie
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Default 06 Civic ECM replacement

Hi,

06 Civic EX 137k miles

I suspect that the ECM is faulty. If I buy a used ECM on Ebay and fit
it, do my existing keys need to be programmed with the replacement
ECM.

If the keys and ECM need to be programmed, is there software where I
can do this myself.

Alternatively can an auto locksmith program them at my location (car
does not start).

Can a Honda dealership program the keys and ECM together without the
car.

Al Moodie.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07 Jan 2013, 12:04 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

In article <b90me8d9a0e1cgmq2bsp33k51m80bpkmpo@4ax.com>,
Al Moodie <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 06 Civic EX 137k miles
>
> I suspect that the ECM is faulty. If I buy a used ECM on Ebay and fit
> it, do my existing keys need to be programmed with the replacement
> ECM.
>
> If the keys and ECM need to be programmed, is there software where I
> can do this myself.
>
> Alternatively can an auto locksmith program them at my location (car
> does not start).
>
> Can a Honda dealership program the keys and ECM together without the
> car.
>
> Al Moodie.


The physical keys have nothing to do with anything.

Do you mean the keyless entry? All you'd have to do, if necessary, is
the Honda dance to match up your existing remotes to the computer. Easy.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07 Jan 2013, 05:27 pm
Al Moodie
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Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:04:25 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>
>The physical keys have nothing to do with anything.
>
>Do you mean the keyless entry? All you'd have to do, if necessary, is
>the Honda dance to match up your existing remotes to the computer. Easy.


The physical keys contain transponders which, when energized by the
ignition, emit an alpha-numeric code which the car must recognize as
preprogrammed into either the "Immobilizer" or the "ECM" or both.
Normally this is done by the manufacturer or for replacement keys by a
Honda dealership or maybe an independent locksmith.

The question I really need answered:
Are the "key codes" stored in a separate "Immobilizer" or are they
also stored in the "ECM". If they are stored in the ECM then it will
need to be reprogrammed to match the keys.

Al Moodie.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07 Jan 2013, 07:03 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

Al Moodie <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:b90me8d9a0e1cgmq2bsp33k51m80bpkmpo@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:04:25 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>The physical keys have nothing to do with anything.
>>
>>Do you mean the keyless entry? All you'd have to do, if necessary, is
>>the Honda dance to match up your existing remotes to the computer. Easy.

>
> The physical keys contain transponders which, when energized by the
> ignition, emit an alpha-numeric code which the car must recognize as
> preprogrammed into either the "Immobilizer" or the "ECM" or both.
> Normally this is done by the manufacturer or for replacement keys by a
> Honda dealership or maybe an independent locksmith.
>
> The question I really need answered:
> Are the "key codes" stored in a separate "Immobilizer" or are they
> also stored in the "ECM".




The ECM and the immobilizer-keyless units work in tandem. The codes are
stored in the immob-keyless unit.

The old "chicken dance" no longer applies. You need the Honda HDS to update
the keyless to accept new keys or delete old ones. Registered locksmiths
will have a similar system that they can use on-site.

TSB A06-011 has all the wonderful details on your Type 6 security system.



> If they are stored in the ECM then it will
> need to be reprogrammed to match the keys.
>



Why do you suspect a faulty ECM? The chances of that are virtully nil, you
know.

Does the engine refuse to start? If so, have you replaced the battery in
the key? (assuming you don't have a DX)


--
Tegger
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jan 2013, 09:30 am
Al Moodie
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 01:03:50 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@example.com>
wrote:
>
>TSB A06-011 has all the wonderful details on your Type 6 security system.
>

I found TSB A06-011 last night after a Google search
>
>
>Why do you suspect a faulty ECM? The chances of that are virtully nil, you
>know.


I've had this car a large local Honda dealership for diagnosis when
the problem was just "difficult starting". They worked on it for a
whole day. Showed no trouble codes. They replaced the spark plugs,
replaced several earth straps, checked sensors and I don't know what
else. Even had a live data link to Hoda HQ in CA who suggested the
only thing left was ECM replacement. A Replacement ECM was shipped
from Honda CA but we had to take the car back due to travel
commitments.

Honda local gave the impression that the ECM from Hoda CA was
"special" in that they were only able to use it for 48 hours before it
had to be shipped on Fedex overnight to some other Honda Dealer who
had requested it. Is there such a thing as a special diagnostic ECM, I
don't know, but that is the impression Honda local gave.

Anyway we continued to use the car for several weeks, but just before
Christmas it refused to start at all. So far I have:
1) Replaced the battery, it was a Honda original, 6-7 years old. No
change
2) Inserted a "spark tester" and got a good blue spark at the
appropriate 10mm gap.
3) Removed MAF housing and squirted starting fluid into the air intake
while cranking, still refuses to fire.

I would test the injector circuit with a node light but I am usure how
to gain access to the injectors. Didn't spend a lot of time looking as
it was below freezing and the car is outdoors.
Can someone point me to injector access.
>
>Does the engine refuse to start? If so, have you replaced the battery in
>the key? (assuming you don't have a DX)


The engine refuses to start. However replacing the batteries in the
keys does not make sense. I quote from TSB A06-011page 2

"The keys for the Civic DX do not contain batteries or
other serviceable parts. The master keys for all other
models have a battery-operated remote transmitter
built into the grip that lets you lock and unlock the
vehicle. Civic EX, Si, and Hybrid models also have a
trunk release. The batteries in these keys are for
keyless functions only. The immobilizer function of the
key does not require a battery."

You say that the chances of ECM failure are virtualy nil. However if I
search Google I find businesses whose only function is ECM rebuilding.
Maybe you have knowledge that Honda ECMs are built to higher
standards, I don't know. Also on Ebay there are many Honda ECMs for
sale, does no one buy them ??

I also have to belive that if my local Honda Dealer in conjuction with
Honda HQ in CA via live data feed believe the problem may be the ECM.
then I am inclined to belive them.

If these to Honda entities can't find any other fault, what chance do
I have of finding the fault. Replacing the ECM seems a logical way to
go. What do you think.

I will admit that when Honda local and Honda HQ had the car it was
running so therefore nor difficult to diagnose a "difficult stark
problem.

Maybe I should just have it towed to the Honda dealership, but I fear
a large bill for towing, diagnosis, ECM replacement, key programming,
etc.

Replacing the ECM would cost me $120 for the ECM and then say $125 for
a travelling locksmith to program the keys to immobilizer, ECM.

I have also looked at buying Honda HDS software for a loaptop and
tackling the programming myself, but software has to come from Hong
Kong which takes time.

If you have any further helpful input, I am all ears.

Al Moodie.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jan 2013, 03:44 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

In article <XnsA141CC213A8F6tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:

> Why do you suspect a faulty ECM? The chances of that are virtully nil, you
> know.


and yet, I had the ECM go back on my 88 Civic Wagon.

$600, back in the day.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jan 2013, 07:35 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

On 01/08/2013 01:44 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<XnsA141CC213A8F6tegger@208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger<invalid@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Why do you suspect a faulty ECM? The chances of that are virtully nil, you
>> know.

>
> and yet, I had the ECM go back on my 88 Civic Wagon.
>
> $600, back in the day.


actually, the 88's are terrible for that. the circuit board traces
break free of the board and float in mid air on some of them - and then
fatigue and break. it's the most incredibly incompetent circuit board
manufacturing fault i've ever seen.


--
fact check required
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jan 2013, 08:30 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

In article <kcihho$bs6$1@dont-email.me>, jim beam <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

> > and yet, I had the ECM go back on my 88 Civic Wagon.
> >
> > $600, back in the day.

>
> actually, the 88's are terrible for that. the circuit board traces
> break free of the board and float in mid air on some of them - and then
> fatigue and break. it's the most incredibly incompetent circuit board
> manufacturing fault i've ever seen.


well, I feel better now, knowing I wasn't taken for a ride. To be fair,
the replacement ECM fixed everything.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 13 Jan 2013, 12:58 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

On 01/08/2013 06:30 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<kcihho$bs6$1@dont-email.me>, jim beam<me@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> and yet, I had the ECM go back on my 88 Civic Wagon.
>>>
>>> $600, back in the day.

>>
>> actually, the 88's are terrible for that. the circuit board traces
>> break free of the board and float in mid air on some of them - and then
>> fatigue and break. it's the most incredibly incompetent circuit board
>> manufacturing fault i've ever seen.

>
> well, I feel better now, knowing I wasn't taken for a ride. To be fair,
> the replacement ECM fixed everything.


saw another one yesterday - an 87 crx si. although to be fair, this one
had been under water for years - sun roof leak kept filling the
interior, and the owner hadn't installed the necessary drain holes in
the well where the ecu sits.

that beats me - i'd have thought that water pooling on the floor of a
car would be a foreseeable problem if the windshield seal went, if the
heater core leaked or even if a car window was left open. locating the
ecu on the floor is just plain retarded. my civic has the same problem
although it's only partial immersion, not full like the gen 1 crx.


--
fact check required
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jan 2013, 09:08 am
Al Moodie
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 06 Civic ECM replacement

On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:58:53 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>saw another one yesterday - an 87 crx si. although to be fair, this one
>had been under water for years - sun roof leak kept filling the
>interior, and the owner hadn't installed the necessary drain holes in
>the well where the ecu sits.
>
>that beats me - i'd have thought that water pooling on the floor of a
>car would be a foreseeable problem if the windshield seal went, if the
>heater core leaked or even if a car window was left open. locating the
>ecu on the floor is just plain retarded. my civic has the same problem
>although it's only partial immersion, not full like the gen 1 crx.


As a hobby I do minor electronics repair, mostly lcd computer monitors
Most of the failures are due to failing electrolytic capacitors. Over
time, with heat they dry out and in some cases bulge and leak fluid.
This leads to circuit failure.

I've ordered a replacement ECM from Ebay, it should be here tomorrow,
but in the meantime I thought I'd open my existing ECM and take a
look.

Spent over an hour trying to pry the two sides apart, they are held
together with a red jointing compounded. They refuse to part and I'm
afraid I'll damage the unit if I use greater force. Anybody ever
openned a Honda ECM?

Al.
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