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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01 Sep 2012, 07:15 pm
cameo
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Default A/T fluid dipstick hard to reach

On the '94 Accord it's virtually impossible to access the dipstick
because it's buried down among several parts with hardly enough room for
the hand to get through there. I was wondering if Honda mechanics use
some kind of special extension tool to do that. Anybody knows? Without
some tool it is also rather dangerous to reach there with hot running
engine that is required for proper fluid level checking.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01 Sep 2012, 08:50 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: A/T fluid dipstick hard to reach

cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in news:k1u8b3$k5j$1@dont-email.me:

> On the '94 Accord it's virtually impossible to access the dipstick
> because it's buried down among several parts with hardly enough room for
> the hand to get through there. I was wondering if Honda mechanics use
> some kind of special extension tool to do that. Anybody knows? Without
> some tool it is also rather dangerous to reach there with hot running
> engine that is required for proper fluid level checking.
>




The engine must NOT be running when you check the A/T fluid level!

Warm up the engine thoroughly, then SHUT IT OFF. You check the level within
ONE MINUTE of shutdown.



--
Tegger
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01 Sep 2012, 10:06 pm
cameo
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Default Re: A/T fluid dipstick hard to reach

On 9/1/2012 6:50 PM, Tegger wrote:
> The engine must NOT be running when you check the A/T fluid level!
>
> Warm up the engine thoroughly, then SHUT IT OFF. You check the level within
> ONE MINUTE of shutdown.


Oh yes, you're right. I just wrote that from memory, remembering that
the engine had to be hot enough to turn on the fans. So I thought the
engine had to be running. My bad.

However, that still makes the dip stick hard to reach with adult size
hands and arm. So I figure there must be some kind of special extension
tool that attaches to the dipstick loop firmly enough so one can not
only pull it out (that's ectually easy with a piece of coat hanger
wire,) but also reinsert the darn thing. Doing it with a hand also
blocks the view of the hole and the end of the dipstick to mate them
properly.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2012, 01:18 am
cameo
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Default AT upshift flaring (Was: A/T fluid dipstick hard to reach)

Actually, what prompted me to post the original subject matter was
something I just discovered: the AT started flaring during upshifting
between the 2nd and 3rd, or between the 3rd and 4th -- or in both
instances. I havent quite nailed it yet as I was just trying to get home
in a hurry.

My initial instinct was that perhaps the ATF level was low, but since
then I studied the trouble shooting section in the Honda shop manual and
realized that it could be several reasons, including loose throttle
cable or stuck valves. Figures ... Unfortunately there is no TCM code
present (OBD 1,) so that does not help.

I think I start with replacing the old ATF because last time it was done
was 15K miles ago, though it should be good for 24K. But for severe
conditions 12K interval is recommended.

Anybody here has had a similar experience and fixed it without major AT
overhaul or swap?

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2012, 12:25 pm
JRStern
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Default Re: AT upshift flaring (Was: A/T fluid dipstick hard to reach)

On Sat, 01 Sep 2012 23:18:01 -0700, cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid>
wrote:

>Actually, what prompted me to post the original subject matter was
>something I just discovered: the AT started flaring during upshifting
>between the 2nd and 3rd, or between the 3rd and 4th -- or in both
>instances. I havent quite nailed it yet as I was just trying to get home
>in a hurry.
>
>My initial instinct was that perhaps the ATF level was low, but since
>then I studied the trouble shooting section in the Honda shop manual and
>realized that it could be several reasons, including loose throttle
>cable or stuck valves. Figures ... Unfortunately there is no TCM code
>present (OBD 1,) so that does not help.
>
>I think I start with replacing the old ATF because last time it was done
>was 15K miles ago, though it should be good for 24K. But for severe
>conditions 12K interval is recommended.
>
>Anybody here has had a similar experience and fixed it without major AT
>overhaul or swap?


"Flaring?"

I've been bitching for a decade about the horrible behavior by Honda
A/Ts, and I gather it's pretty much universal.

I've seen replacing the fluid help, but only for a very brief period,
maybe a month or a thousand miles or so before it deteriorates again.

Hoping the new CVTs are somehow better.

J.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2012, 01:45 pm
cameo
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Default Re: AT upshift flaring

On 9/2/2012 10:25 AM, JRStern wrote:
> "Flaring?"
>
> I've been bitching for a decade about the horrible behavior by Honda
> A/Ts, and I gather it's pretty much universal.
>
> I've seen replacing the fluid help, but only for a very brief period,
> maybe a month or a thousand miles or so before it deteriorates again.
>
> Hoping the new CVTs are somehow better.


Actually, this Accord's transmission did not show flaring before the
last few days and it has 307,500 miles in it. Frankly, that flaring is
so worrysome to me that it keeps me close to home till I find a fix for
it. I don't fathom how you could have been living with it so long. But I
agree with you on CVTs: that's what I'll be looking for in my next car.
They are just so much simpler and good A/T service technicians are hard
to find.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03 Sep 2012, 09:16 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: AT upshift flaring (Was: A/T fluid dipstick hard to reach)

On 09/02/2012 10:25 AM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2012 23:18:01 -0700, cameo<cameo@unreal.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, what prompted me to post the original subject matter was
>> something I just discovered: the AT started flaring during upshifting
>> between the 2nd and 3rd, or between the 3rd and 4th -- or in both
>> instances. I havent quite nailed it yet as I was just trying to get home
>> in a hurry.
>>
>> My initial instinct was that perhaps the ATF level was low, but since
>> then I studied the trouble shooting section in the Honda shop manual and
>> realized that it could be several reasons, including loose throttle
>> cable or stuck valves. Figures ... Unfortunately there is no TCM code
>> present (OBD 1,) so that does not help.
>>
>> I think I start with replacing the old ATF because last time it was done
>> was 15K miles ago, though it should be good for 24K. But for severe
>> conditions 12K interval is recommended.
>>
>> Anybody here has had a similar experience and fixed it without major AT
>> overhaul or swap?

>
> "Flaring?"
>
> I've been bitching for a decade about the horrible behavior by Honda
> A/Ts, and I gather it's pretty much universal.
>
> I've seen replacing the fluid help, but only for a very brief period,
> maybe a month or a thousand miles or so before it deteriorates again.
>
> Hoping the new CVTs are somehow better.
>
> J.
>


all my hondas have done it when i gun it coming hard out of a corner.
particularly left corners. my assumption is that oil's sloshing in the
pan and air is getting into the pressure lines.

there's no "cure" other than going in hotter and gunning later once
you're out of the apex - change your timing.

as for the design that causes it, i don't think it's particularly good,
but given all the other benefits of the honda transmission, like
efficiency and longevity [on the older ones at least], i'm prepared to
live with it. if it was a frod or g.m. that grenaded at 100k, and then
/also/ flared, i'd have a different opinion.


--
fact check required
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2012, 01:45 am
Tegger
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Default Re: AT upshift flaring

cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in news:k209b0$6sh$1@dont-email.me:


>
> Actually, this Accord's transmission did not show flaring before the
> last few days and it has 307,500 miles in it. Frankly, that flaring is
> so worrysome to me that it keeps me close to home till I find a fix for
> it.




Good idea.

Flaring means the clutch packs aren't gripping the way they ought to. The
usual reasons for this are worn clutch packs (most likely in your case), or
shift-control solenoids that are sticking. A good dealer or A/T garage
familiar with Hondas should be able to plumb into the test-ports to check
line pressures and determine the source of the problem.




--
Tegger
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2012, 02:55 am
cameo
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: AT upshift flaring

On 9/3/2012 7:16 PM, jim beam wrote:
>
> all my hondas have done it when i gun it coming hard out of a corner.
> particularly left corners. my assumption is that oil's sloshing in the
> pan and air is getting into the pressure lines.
>
> there's no "cure" other than going in hotter and gunning later once
> you're out of the apex - change your timing.


While googling for this issue, I saw several responses suggesting that
bad engine mounts could also be the cause of this. I would think that
your cornering episodes might suggest exactly that reason, don't you
think? In my case the problem happens even when no turning is involved.
Though this link address the opposite problem, harsh shifting, but
the solutions are pretty similar. Check the reply at the bottom of the page:
"Apart from throttle cable out of adjustment, fluid condition, engine
mounts, throttle position sensor and trans internal faults can cause
harsh shifting."
<http://www.2carpros.com/questions/honda-accord-1994-honda-accord-transmission-slippage>

> as for the design that causes it, i don't think it's particularly good,
> but given all the other benefits of the honda transmission, like
> efficiency and longevity [on the older ones at least], i'm prepared to
> live with it. if it was a frod or g.m. that grenaded at 100k, and then
> /also/ flared, i'd have a different opinion.


I just can't see myself driving around with this condition very long or
far from home. Especially after knowing how well that tanny worked till
last Saturday. But interestingly, a waitress I know who drives a '97 or
'98 Accord, after telling her about my prolem, she told me she also
noticed that recently in her car but did not pay too much attention to
it till now. And so it goes ...
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2012, 03:02 am
cameo
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Default Re: A/T fluid dipstick hard to reach

On 9/1/2012 6:50 PM, Tegger wrote:
> The engine must NOT be running when you check the A/T fluid level!
>
> Warm up the engine thoroughly, then SHUT IT OFF. You check the level within
> ONE MINUTE of shutdown.


Well, I was able to find a long nose plier with real long handles that
makes the accessing of the ATF dipstick much easier, so I was finally
able to check the fluid level as per Honda's instructions. I was pleased
that it was at the top mark on the stick. So at least that is out of the
way.

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