Honda Car Forum


 

Go Back   Honda Car Forum - Accord Parts Civic Tuning Acura Racing > Honda Acura > Honda 2

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2012, 06:20 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tegger's coolant leak

For the past year or more, I had an inconsistent and disturbing coolant
leak in my '91 Integra. The engine would lose coolant at differing rates
which appeared to coincide with warmer temperatures, but still exhibited
considerable variability within temperature ranges.

I went over the entire system with a strong flashlight, many many times,
looking for the tell-tale blue crud that results when genuine-Honda coolant
escapes the confines of the system.

There was no air in the system. The reservoir level dropped as the system
sucked in its contents as loss occurred. All I could do was to monitor the
reservoir and rad level every day, and top up as necessary.

Some online (in rec.autos.tech) suggested a cracked head. But that did not
explain the lack of air.

Well, one day this past January, I got careless. I skipped a day checking
the coolant, since it had been stable for several days prior. I drove about
3 miles, and wondered why there was no interior heat. An investigation
revealed a dry rad and empty reservoir. I topped them up, then idled the
engine to allow pressure to build. Coolant began pouring out from under the
front bumper. Uh-oh.

Further investigation led me to strongly suspect the rad, so I ordered a
new one. The new rad did not leak, but would not build pressure. I
discovered a deep gouge in the plastic filler neck's sealing ring. The rad
shop took back the rad and gave me a new one. This one worked fine, but the
defect in the original meant that I ended up having to pull the rad twice,
on a zero-Fahrenheit day! NOT fun!

Once I had the old rad out, it became clear what had happened: The gasket
between the core and the bottom tank was leaking, right at the hose stub
for the bottom rad hose. This area is virtually impossible to see on my car
with the rad and hose installed. And since the car is treated against rust
yearly and the coolant leak was inconsistent, the oily rustproofing residue
prevented the coolant from crusting over and becoming visible. When the
gasket finally allowed a Niagara-type leak, I could then see the streaks on
the tank where the coolant flow washed the tank clean.

Engines's been fine since. Haven't had to top it up since February.

--
Tegger
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 24 May 2012, 07:24 pm
cameo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

On 5/23/2012 4:20 PM, Tegger wrote:
> Once I had the old rad out, it became clear what had happened: The gasket
> between the core and the bottom tank was leaking, right at the hose stub
> for the bottom rad hose. This area is virtually impossible to see on my car
> with the rad and hose installed. And since the car is treated against rust
> yearly and the coolant leak was inconsistent, the oily rustproofing residue
> prevented the coolant from crusting over and becoming visible. When the
> gasket finally allowed a Niagara-type leak, I could then see the streaks on
> the tank where the coolant flow washed the tank clean.


There are gaskets on the rad besides the radiator cap and perhaps the
drain plug? I thought the rad core and tank were soldered together. Too
bad you don't have a picture of it.

> Engines's been fine since. Haven't had to top it up since February.


Good feeling, eh?


Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 24 May 2012, 07:40 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in news:jpmjdc$16t$1@dont-email.me:


>
> There are gaskets on the rad besides the radiator cap and perhaps the
> drain plug? I thought the rad core and tank were soldered together.
> Too bad you don't have a picture of it.




Go have a look at your own rad. The tanks are crimped onto the core with a
whole bunch of little metal tabs. There's a rubber gasket in between. It's
lighter and cheaper to make rads this way instead of the old all-metal,
all-solder way.

Those tank/core gaskets provide about 8-feet worth of leakable join. Then
you have the rad cap, the drain plug, and the hose stubs. Plus the two
automatic-transmission cooler lines, if so equipped.

All told, there are probably about 50 possible leak points in the entire
cooling system. Considering that, it's actually a bit amazing that the
system is sealed as reliably as it is.


>
>> Engines's been fine since. Haven't had to top it up since February.

>
> Good feeling, eh?
>



More of a relief than anything else. With 385,000 miles and 21-years on the
engine and the rest of the car, I expect anything to happen anytime. Every
day the car makes it from A to B and back again, I am grateful.


--
Tegger
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 24 May 2012, 08:37 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

On 05/24/2012 05:40 PM, Tegger wrote:
> cameo<cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in news:jpmjdc$16t$1@dont-email.me:
>
>
>>
>> There are gaskets on the rad besides the radiator cap and perhaps the
>> drain plug? I thought the rad core and tank were soldered together.
>> Too bad you don't have a picture of it.

>
>
>
> Go have a look at your own rad. The tanks are crimped onto the core with a
> whole bunch of little metal tabs. There's a rubber gasket in between. It's
> lighter and cheaper to make rads this way instead of the old all-metal,
> all-solder way.


that's not the reason. the reason is that h.o.a.t. antifreeze doesn't
play well with solder. and frankly,t he more disparate metal systems
the antifreeze has to protect, the more complex its task and shorter its
life. aluminum radiators simplify the protection equation and lengthen
antifreeze potential life considerably.


>
> Those tank/core gaskets provide about 8-feet worth of leakable join. Then
> you have the rad cap, the drain plug, and the hose stubs. Plus the two
> automatic-transmission cooler lines, if so equipped.


you haven't mentioned hose leakage at any point along a hose length - a
not uncommon scenario. especially if it's one that's been having oil
drip on it - as is a favorite with honda heater hoses under the distributor.


>
> All told, there are probably about 50 possible leak points in the entire
> cooling system. Considering that, it's actually a bit amazing that the
> system is sealed as reliably as it is.


seals don't leak on their own - it's faults that leak. and a fault can
be anywhere - cracked heads [which are not a joint], cracked radiator
tanks [which are not a joint] stone punctured radiator [which is not a
joint], salt corroded radiator [which is not a joint] and rubber
degraded hoses [which are not a joint] being just some other scenarios
you need to include in your checklist.


>
>
>>
>>> Engines's been fine since. Haven't had to top it up since February.

>>
>> Good feeling, eh?
>>

>
>
> More of a relief than anything else. With 385,000 miles and 21-years on the
> engine and the rest of the car, I expect anything to happen anytime. Every
> day the car makes it from A to B and back again, I am grateful.
>
>



--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 24 May 2012, 09:18 pm
cameo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

On 5/24/2012 6:37 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> Go have a look at your own rad. The tanks are crimped onto the core
>> with a
>> whole bunch of little metal tabs. There's a rubber gasket in between.
>> It's
>> lighter and cheaper to make rads this way instead of the old all-metal,
>> all-solder way.

>
> that's not the reason. the reason is that h.o.a.t. antifreeze doesn't
> play well with solder. and frankly,t he more disparate metal systems the
> antifreeze has to protect, the more complex its task and shorter its
> life. aluminum radiators simplify the protection equation and lengthen
> antifreeze potential life considerably.


Well, the heater core being essentially a smaller version of the main
radiator isn't built that way. Plenty of soldering there and no aluminum
that I can see.

What is h.o.a.t. anyway? There are still some of us here who don't talk
shop.

>> Those tank/core gaskets provide about 8-feet worth of leakable join. Then
>> you have the rad cap, the drain plug, and the hose stubs. Plus the two
>> automatic-transmission cooler lines, if so equipped.

>
> you haven't mentioned hose leakage at any point along a hose length - a
> not uncommon scenario. especially if it's one that's been having oil
> drip on it - as is a favorite with honda heater hoses under the
> distributor.


Oh boy! I've had a couple of those, too. Once in the upper rad hose and
once on one of the two small hoses attached to the heater core. I don't
remember if inlet or outlet. Luckily it happened close to my home.

>> All told, there are probably about 50 possible leak points in the entire
>> cooling system. Considering that, it's actually a bit amazing that the
>> system is sealed as reliably as it is.

>
> seals don't leak on their own - it's faults that leak. and a fault can
> be anywhere - cracked heads [which are not a joint], cracked radiator
> tanks [which are not a joint] stone punctured radiator [which is not a
> joint], salt corroded radiator [which is not a joint] and rubber
> degraded hoses [which are not a joint] being just some other scenarios
> you need to include in your checklist.


There you have it. The list can be endless.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 24 May 2012, 09:44 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

On 05/24/2012 07:18 PM, cameo wrote:
> On 5/24/2012 6:37 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>> Go have a look at your own rad. The tanks are crimped onto the core
>>> with a
>>> whole bunch of little metal tabs. There's a rubber gasket in between.
>>> It's
>>> lighter and cheaper to make rads this way instead of the old all-metal,
>>> all-solder way.

>>
>> that's not the reason. the reason is that h.o.a.t. antifreeze doesn't
>> play well with solder. and frankly,t he more disparate metal systems the
>> antifreeze has to protect, the more complex its task and shorter its
>> life. aluminum radiators simplify the protection equation and lengthen
>> antifreeze potential life considerably.

>
> Well, the heater core being essentially a smaller version of the main
> radiator isn't built that way. Plenty of soldering there and no aluminum
> that I can see.
>
> What is h.o.a.t. anyway? There are still some of us here who don't talk
> shop.


http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/an...ze-faq.htm#q28 towards the
bottom of that question.


>
>>> Those tank/core gaskets provide about 8-feet worth of leakable join.
>>> Then
>>> you have the rad cap, the drain plug, and the hose stubs. Plus the two
>>> automatic-transmission cooler lines, if so equipped.

>>
>> you haven't mentioned hose leakage at any point along a hose length - a
>> not uncommon scenario. especially if it's one that's been having oil
>> drip on it - as is a favorite with honda heater hoses under the
>> distributor.

>
> Oh boy! I've had a couple of those, too. Once in the upper rad hose and
> once on one of the two small hoses attached to the heater core. I don't
> remember if inlet or outlet. Luckily it happened close to my home.


it's the outlet of hot coolant from the head to the heater matrix - very
common because the distributor o-ring always leaks and the oil rots the
rubber of the hose. [i have a viton x-ring on my distributor and that
stops it completely. but i would, wouldn't i.]


>
>>> All told, there are probably about 50 possible leak points in the entire
>>> cooling system. Considering that, it's actually a bit amazing that the
>>> system is sealed as reliably as it is.

>>
>> seals don't leak on their own - it's faults that leak. and a fault can
>> be anywhere - cracked heads [which are not a joint], cracked radiator
>> tanks [which are not a joint] stone punctured radiator [which is not a
>> joint], salt corroded radiator [which is not a joint] and rubber
>> degraded hoses [which are not a joint] being just some other scenarios
>> you need to include in your checklist.

>
> There you have it. The list can be endless.



--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25 May 2012, 01:15 pm
cameo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

On 5/24/2012 7:44 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> What is h.o.a.t. anyway? There are still some of us here who don't talk
>> shop.

>
> http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/an...ze-faq.htm#q28 towards the
> bottom of that question.


Oh, so it's Hybrid Organic Acid Technology. Is that what Honda coolant uses?

>> Oh boy! I've had a couple of those, too. Once in the upper rad hose and
>> once on one of the two small hoses attached to the heater core. I don't
>> remember if inlet or outlet. Luckily it happened close to my home.

>
> it's the outlet of hot coolant from the head to the heater matrix - very
> common because the distributor o-ring always leaks and the oil rots the
> rubber of the hose. [i have a viton x-ring on my distributor and that
> stops it completely. but i would, wouldn't i.]


Thanks, that's good to know. Now I'll be checking that sucker more
often. But that being a common problem, one would think that Honda could
have come up with some special oil resistant covering for that hose, no?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 26 May 2012, 12:48 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

On 05/25/2012 11:15 AM, cameo wrote:
> On 5/24/2012 7:44 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>> What is h.o.a.t. anyway? There are still some of us here who don't talk
>>> shop.

>>
>> http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/an...ze-faq.htm#q28 towards the
>> bottom of that question.

>
> Oh, so it's Hybrid Organic Acid Technology. Is that what Honda coolant
> uses?
>
>>> Oh boy! I've had a couple of those, too. Once in the upper rad hose and
>>> once on one of the two small hoses attached to the heater core. I don't
>>> remember if inlet or outlet. Luckily it happened close to my home.

>>
>> it's the outlet of hot coolant from the head to the heater matrix - very
>> common because the distributor o-ring always leaks and the oil rots the
>> rubber of the hose. [i have a viton x-ring on my distributor and that
>> stops it completely. but i would, wouldn't i.]

>
> Thanks, that's good to know. Now I'll be checking that sucker more
> often. But that being a common problem, one would think that Honda could
> have come up with some special oil resistant covering for that hose, no?


well, it's academic now they're on the k-series engines. but with the
prior motors, they just presumed their o-ring spec was sufficient. and
maybe it was with japanese o-rings. but the ones that got fitted to the
u.s./canadian-made engines were hopeless.

but fitting a viton ring is not as easy as it should be. honda o-rings
are metric, not standard, and it's pretty much impossible to buy
economic quantities in metric over here, and certainly not in viton.
the nearest standard size is a little over-sized, and the distributor
thus retrofitted sometimes goes in ok, sometimes not, depending on the
combined tolerances for the distributor and head. my accord worked ok,
my crx ok, one of my civics runs with an x-ring ok, but the other civic
is just too tight and no retrofit ring has yet fitted - it's running
stock honda. fortunately a new japanese ring is doing ok so far.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 26 May 2012, 02:44 am
cameo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

On 5/25/2012 10:48 PM, jim beam wrote:

> well, it's academic now they're on the k-series engines. but with the
> prior motors, they just presumed their o-ring spec was sufficient. and
> maybe it was with japanese o-rings. but the ones that got fitted to the
> u.s./canadian-made engines were hopeless.


My Accord was made in Japan.

> but fitting a viton ring is not as easy as it should be. honda o-rings
> are metric, not standard, and it's pretty much impossible to buy
> economic quantities in metric over here, and certainly not in viton. the
> nearest standard size is a little over-sized, and the distributor thus
> retrofitted sometimes goes in ok, sometimes not, depending on the
> combined tolerances for the distributor and head. my accord worked ok,
> my crx ok, one of my civics runs with an x-ring ok, but the other civic
> is just too tight and no retrofit ring has yet fitted - it's running
> stock honda. fortunately a new japanese ring is doing ok so far.


Now that you're mentioned it, I remember that I used to have a pretty
stubborn oil leak at the distributor. Wasn't leaking much but that was
probably enough to weaken that outlet hose to eventually burst. The
technician had to replace the o-ring twice but I don't know what brand
he used.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 29 May 2012, 11:55 pm
M.A. Stewart
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tegger's coolant leak

Tegger (invalid@example.com) writes:
> cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in news:jpmjdc$16t$1@dont-email.me:
>
>
>>
>> There are gaskets on the rad besides the radiator cap and perhaps the
>> drain plug? I thought the rad core and tank were soldered together.
>> Too bad you don't have a picture of it.

>
>
>
> Go have a look at your own rad. The tanks are crimped onto the core with a
> whole bunch of little metal tabs. There's a rubber gasket in between. It's
> lighter and cheaper to make rads this way instead of the old all-metal,
> all-solder way.
>
> Those tank/core gaskets provide about 8-feet worth of leakable join. Then
> you have the rad cap, the drain plug, and the hose stubs. Plus the two
> automatic-transmission cooler lines, if so equipped.
>
> All told, there are probably about 50 possible leak points in the entire
> cooling system. Considering that, it's actually a bit amazing that the
> system is sealed as reliably as it is.
>



I have had coolant leaks seal on their own accord. I rebuilt an engine
once and put in new frost plugs (OEM). When I started the engine up for
the first time, some of the frost plugs started to weep a little coolant.
The next day I drove the car for about an hour, the weeping stopped. The
plugs were never weepy again.


>
>>
>>> Engines's been fine since. Haven't had to top it up since February.

>>
>> Good feeling, eh?
>>

>
>
> More of a relief than anything else. With 385,000 miles and 21-years on the
> engine and the rest of the car, I expect anything to happen anytime. Every
> day the car makes it from A to B and back again, I am grateful.
>
>
> --
> Tegger



Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
coolant leak olgabones Honda Technical 0 05 Oct 2011 12:24 am
93 honda accord when put coolant in my resvoir tank when drive some of the coolant leak Rapheal Lairy Honda Technical 2 14 Feb 2011 11:31 pm
Coolant Vanishing: '95 Civic EX 1.6 - Attn Tegger and Techs mjc13 Honda 2 46 26 Feb 2008 10:41 am
coolant leak randyoo@gmail.com Honda 3 8 24 Jun 2006 07:32 pm
Coolant Leak barry_d Acura 3 30 Dec 2005 08:52 am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:50 am.


Attribution:
Honda News | Autoblog
Powered by Yahoo Answers




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
HondaCarForum.com is not affiliated with Honda Motor Company in any way. Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse HondaCarForum.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.