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Old 06 May 2012, 02:31 am
cameo
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Default Coolant steam condensing inside window

Sorry for bringing up another coolant related issue but the collective
wisdom found in this NG helped me out before, so it might again.

I've had the leaking heater control water walve replaced a couple weeks
ago in my '94 Accord and I thought that may have fixed the slowly
depleting coolant issue I was experiencing. I also noticed some slick
condensation inside the windshield when the heat was turned on and I was
hoping it was only due to the leaking water valve, not a leak in the
heater core. Well, after the valve was replaced, the condensation and
cooland deplation was reduced, though not entirely. But I thought I
could live with it till the next next heating season. So I was quite
surprised today when suddenly the inside condensation returned but this
time without the heater being turned on. The air was dry outside, with
clear skies. I even tried to dry the inside air with the A/C on with no
avail. The condensation became quite severe and felt slick, so it must
have been due to coolant leak, probably in the heater core. What I don't
understand though how that could happen if the water valve was closed. I
assumed that coolant got into the heater core only when the valve was
open. Could the source of this condensation be somewhere else than the
heater core?

I sure would appreciate your thoughts on this.
Thanks.
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Old 06 May 2012, 10:09 am
jim beam
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 05/06/2012 12:31 AM, cameo wrote:
> Sorry for bringing up another coolant related issue but the collective
> wisdom found in this NG helped me out before, so it might again.
>
> I've had the leaking heater control water walve replaced a couple weeks
> ago in my '94 Accord and I thought that may have fixed the slowly
> depleting coolant issue I was experiencing. I also noticed some slick
> condensation inside the windshield when the heat was turned on and I was
> hoping it was only due to the leaking water valve, not a leak in the
> heater core. Well, after the valve was replaced, the condensation and
> cooland deplation was reduced, though not entirely. But I thought I
> could live with it till the next next heating season. So I was quite
> surprised today when suddenly the inside condensation returned but this
> time without the heater being turned on. The air was dry outside, with
> clear skies. I even tried to dry the inside air with the A/C on with no
> avail. The condensation became quite severe and felt slick, so it must
> have been due to coolant leak, probably in the heater core. What I don't
> understand though how that could happen if the water valve was closed. I
> assumed that coolant got into the heater core only when the valve was
> open. Could the source of this condensation be somewhere else than the
> heater core?
>
> I sure would appreciate your thoughts on this.
> Thanks.


even with the water valve "closed", the matrix is still [and always]
full. indeed, many valves have a small channel to ensure there's always
a little circulation and to allow air bleeding.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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Old 06 May 2012, 06:16 pm
cameo
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 5/6/2012 8:09 AM, jim beam wrote:
> even with the water valve "closed", the matrix is still [and always]
> full. indeed, many valves have a small channel to ensure there's always
> a little circulation and to allow air bleeding.


Thanks. So then the fate of my budget is sealed. :-(

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07 May 2012, 03:35 am
Dave Dodson
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

cameo <cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in news:jo70m2$7rd$2@dont-email.me:

> On 5/6/2012 8:09 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> even with the water valve "closed", the matrix is still [and always]
>> full. indeed, many valves have a small channel to ensure there's always
>> a little circulation and to allow air bleeding.

>
> Thanks. So then the fate of my budget is sealed. :-(

Not necessarily...This happened to me on a Series IIA LandRover...One day,
out of the blue, I got a blast of "steam" inside the cab and a sticky,
slick film on my windshield...About three days prior, I had replaced the
input hose to the heater (split but not leaking)...When I installed the new
hose, I did not get a good seal at the heater core. As you have been
working with your heater, I would check for leaking at the top heater hose
which would let coolant leak into the heater core enclosure...May or may
not be but would be worth a look, IMHO...DaveD
>


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Old 07 May 2012, 07:54 am
jim beam
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 05/07/2012 01:35 AM, Dave Dodson wrote:
> cameo<cameo@unreal.invalid> wrote in news:jo70m2$7rd$2@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 5/6/2012 8:09 AM, jim beam wrote:
>>> even with the water valve "closed", the matrix is still [and always]
>>> full. indeed, many valves have a small channel to ensure there's always
>>> a little circulation and to allow air bleeding.

>>
>> Thanks. So then the fate of my budget is sealed. :-(

> Not necessarily...This happened to me on a Series IIA LandRover...One day,
> out of the blue, I got a blast of "steam" inside the cab and a sticky,
> slick film on my windshield...About three days prior, I had replaced the
> input hose to the heater (split but not leaking)...When I installed the new
> hose, I did not get a good seal at the heater core. As you have been
> working with your heater, I would check for leaking at the top heater hose
> which would let coolant leak into the heater core enclosure...May or may
> not be but would be worth a look, IMHO...DaveD
>>

>


the hose connections on the honda are outside the cabin, not inside.
the heater core pipes poke through the firewall.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07 May 2012, 08:56 am
jim beam
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 05/06/2012 04:16 PM, cameo wrote:
> On 5/6/2012 8:09 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> even with the water valve "closed", the matrix is still [and always]
>> full. indeed, many valves have a small channel to ensure there's always
>> a little circulation and to allow air bleeding.

>
> Thanks. So then the fate of my budget is sealed. :-(
>


talking of being sealed, could you try some of that water glass sealant?
the price per year of projected remaining life is a consideration.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07 May 2012, 04:39 pm
cameo
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 5/7/2012 5:54 AM, jim beam wrote:

> the hose connections on the honda are outside the cabin, not inside. the
> heater core pipes poke through the firewall.


That's right, but this morning I also checked the space under dash in
front of the center console and it definitely felt moist from a slick
fluid. Just like what was condensing inside the windshield.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07 May 2012, 04:47 pm
cameo
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 5/7/2012 6:56 AM, jim beam wrote:
> talking of being sealed, could you try some of that water glass sealant?
> the price per year of projected remaining life is a consideration.


Water glass sealant? You mean something that you pour into the coolant?
I have not heard of that particular one yet but I've been always
ambivalent with such temporary fixes unless out somewhere on the road
and I need to get home. I feel some of that stuff can do more damage on
the long run than it's worth to use close at home. But you may know some
newer stuff for which my old notions might be out of date. Is this water
glass one of them?
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Old 07 May 2012, 09:14 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 05/07/2012 02:47 PM, cameo wrote:
> On 5/7/2012 6:56 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> talking of being sealed, could you try some of that water glass sealant?
>> the price per year of projected remaining life is a consideration.

>
> Water glass sealant? You mean something that you pour into the coolant?
> I have not heard of that particular one yet but I've been always
> ambivalent with such temporary fixes unless out somewhere on the road
> and I need to get home. I feel some of that stuff can do more damage on
> the long run than it's worth to use close at home. But you may know some
> newer stuff for which my old notions might be out of date. Is this water
> glass one of them?


so i'm told. to be honest, i've not had occasion to use it myself, and
i'm a "repair it properly" person anyway, but others swear by it. and
it does work. don't pout it into the coolant though - drain and flush
with water first.

commercially marketed for auto use, there's a brand called "blue devil"
or something like that. but it'll cost $60. if you buy "sodium
silicate solution", it'll cost you just over 1/10th of that.

anyway, check it out. it might work. if not, then you're out a few
more bucks, but not as much as a new core will set you back.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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Old 07 May 2012, 11:46 pm
cameo
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Default Re: Coolant steam condensing inside window

On 5/7/2012 7:14 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 05/07/2012 02:47 PM, cameo wrote:
>> Water glass sealant? You mean something that you pour into the coolant?
>> I have not heard of that particular one yet but I've been always
>> ambivalent with such temporary fixes unless out somewhere on the road
>> and I need to get home. I feel some of that stuff can do more damage on
>> the long run than it's worth to use close at home. But you may know some
>> newer stuff for which my old notions might be out of date. Is this water
>> glass one of them?

>
> so i'm told. to be honest, i've not had occasion to use it myself, and
> i'm a "repair it properly" person anyway, but others swear by it. and it
> does work. don't pout it into the coolant though - drain and flush with
> water first.
>
> commercially marketed for auto use, there's a brand called "blue devil"
> or something like that. but it'll cost $60. if you buy "sodium silicate
> solution", it'll cost you just over 1/10th of that.
>
> anyway, check it out. it might work. if not, then you're out a few more
> bucks, but not as much as a new core will set you back.


Well, I've been googling this water glass subject a bit and its use for
leak sealing does seem to have quite a following, even for head gasket
leaks. On the other hand there is also a lot of caution around what
damage might be caused by its use, like in water pumps. So I am not
quite sold on it. For starters, I am not keen on the idea of first
flushing the system out with clean water bacause it's not that easy to
get rid off all the coolant from the system without some special
equipment designed just for that purpose. For instance, looking at the
Service Manual I've got, I noticed in the specs that the total cooling
system capacity, incl. heater and reservoir, is 7.3 US qts. Then, in the
Refill and Bleeding section it specifies Engine Coolant Refill Capacity
(incl. reservoir): 5.6 US qt. So where is the 1.7 qt difference? I
figure that much cannot be drained out, right? So flushing that out also
is not something an average joe can easily do in his garage.

But I found one post that contained a pretty cleaver idea that seemed to
me also the safest in using that water glass solution to fix a heater
core leak. He disconnected the heater core from the rest of the cooling
system and used one of those hand drill operated small pumps between the
two hose connections of the core to circulate water within the heater
core itself. The circulating water already had that water glass added to
it. The poster also wrote that he used a heat gun to heat the core in
the process to keep the water hot inside for the water glass do its
bonding. I just don't know how he could have heated the core with a heat
gun without taking out the core in the first place. But that would then
defeat the purpose of the quick fix, right? Go figure ... But perhaps
just using preheated water would also do the job, who knows? Anyway,
after a few minutes of doing that closed loop circulation, the guy
drained the core, reconnected it to the system and refilled it with
antifreeze. That stopped his leak for good, according to him.

I haven't decided on what I'm going to do, but I kinda' like the above
idea because it avoids the potential problems water glass could cause
elsewhere in the system.


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