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Old 19 Jul 2007, 05:42 pm
Big Brother
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Default Cooling System Understanding

Have a 98 Civic EX; 162,000 miles; Last November at 150,000 did a flush
and fill after acquiring the car..At that time made sure that antifreeze
in overflow bottle was at MAX mark and radaitor was completely topped
off; watched it for a couple weeks; no change in fluid levels...no
symptons of overheating

1 week ago I had to add approx 1 quart of antifreeze (using dexcool) to
the radiator; antifreeze in overflow bottol was at MAX level..Temp gauge
stayed at 9 O' clock position all week after adding antifreeze..

Today watched the temp needle go from 9 O'clock position to close to the
red mark ..A/C was on at the time; and was idleing in traffic..At
highway speeds the temp needle is at a 9 O'clock position rock solid..
Radiator fan is on; condensor fan was cycling off and on every 18
seconds.. No visible signs of leakage and do not see evidence of
antifreeze in the oil..Added another quart of antifreeze..Might have
headgasket going bad..

Both times the fluid in the overflow bottle was still at MAX level..even
though I needed to add 1 quart to the radiator..

Question's, isn't the radiator supppose to draw coolant from the
overflow bottle should the antifreeze level in the radiator drop??

Does this sound most probably like headgasket going bad ??

Thanks,

Rich











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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 19 Jul 2007, 06:58 pm
E Meyer
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Default Re: Cooling System Understanding

On 7/19/07 5:42 PM, in article
5DRni.29008$C96.25989@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net, "Big Brother"
<someonewatchingyou@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Have a 98 Civic EX; 162,000 miles; Last November at 150,000 did a flush
> and fill after acquiring the car..At that time made sure that antifreeze
> in overflow bottle was at MAX mark and radaitor was completely topped
> off; watched it for a couple weeks; no change in fluid levels...no
> symptons of overheating
>
> 1 week ago I had to add approx 1 quart of antifreeze (using dexcool) to
> the radiator; antifreeze in overflow bottol was at MAX level..Temp gauge
> stayed at 9 O' clock position all week after adding antifreeze..


You'll get some comments about using dexcool in a Honda. Anything other
than Honda coolant makes them eat water pumps.
>
> Today watched the temp needle go from 9 O'clock position to close to the
> red mark ..A/C was on at the time; and was idleing in traffic..At
> highway speeds the temp needle is at a 9 O'clock position rock solid..
> Radiator fan is on; condensor fan was cycling off and on every 18
> seconds.. No visible signs of leakage and do not see evidence of
> antifreeze in the oil..Added another quart of antifreeze..Might have
> headgasket going bad..
>
> Both times the fluid in the overflow bottle was still at MAX level..even
> though I needed to add 1 quart to the radiator..
>
> Question's, isn't the radiator supppose to draw coolant from the
> overflow bottle should the antifreeze level in the radiator drop??


You have a leak. Probably the water pump, but also check hoses, heater
core, radiator itself.

As soon as the radiator gets air in it, it is no longer able to draw
anything back in from the overflow tank, so nothing will happen there unless
& until there is absolutely no air in the rest of the system.

>
> Does this sound most probably like headgasket going bad ??
>


Not really. Headgasket going bad usually involves the radiator boiling
over. You'ld see it bubbling up in the overflow tank. Check the coolant for
an oil slick and check the oil for milkyness (coolant in the oil). Either
or both are subtler symptoms of a headgasket failure.

It sounds more likely from your description that its just a leak.

> Thanks,
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 19 Jul 2007, 07:45 pm
Eric
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Cooling System Understanding

Big Brother wrote:
>
> Have a 98 Civic EX; 162,000 miles; Last November at 150,000 did a flush
> and fill after acquiring the car..At that time made sure that antifreeze
> in overflow bottle was at MAX mark and radaitor was completely topped
> off; watched it for a couple weeks; no change in fluid levels...no
> symptons of overheating
>
> 1 week ago I had to add approx 1 quart of antifreeze (using dexcool) to
> the radiator; antifreeze in overflow bottol was at MAX level..Temp gauge
> stayed at 9 O' clock position all week after adding antifreeze..
>
> Today watched the temp needle go from 9 O'clock position to close to the
> red mark ..A/C was on at the time; and was idleing in traffic..At
> highway speeds the temp needle is at a 9 O'clock position rock solid..
> Radiator fan is on; condensor fan was cycling off and on every 18
> seconds.. No visible signs of leakage and do not see evidence of
> antifreeze in the oil..Added another quart of antifreeze..Might have
> headgasket going bad..
>
> Both times the fluid in the overflow bottle was still at MAX level..even
> though I needed to add 1 quart to the radiator..
>
> Question's, isn't the radiator supppose to draw coolant from the
> overflow bottle should the antifreeze level in the radiator drop??
>


It can't do this if the radiator cap is not sealing correctly. Pressure
test the cooling system for leaks and pressure test the cap to check its
seal. The cap should hold about 13-14 psi or whatever is marked on the cap.

Eric
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 19 Jul 2007, 09:20 pm
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Cooling System Understanding

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:46A0058E.26B9E710@spam.now...
> Big Brother wrote:
>>
>> Have a 98 Civic EX; 162,000 miles; Last November at 150,000 did a flush
>> and fill after acquiring the car..At that time made sure that antifreeze
>> in overflow bottle was at MAX mark and radaitor was completely topped
>> off; watched it for a couple weeks; no change in fluid levels...no
>> symptons of overheating
>>
>> 1 week ago I had to add approx 1 quart of antifreeze (using dexcool) to
>> the radiator; antifreeze in overflow bottol was at MAX level..Temp gauge
>> stayed at 9 O' clock position all week after adding antifreeze..
>>
>> Today watched the temp needle go from 9 O'clock position to close to the
>> red mark ..A/C was on at the time; and was idleing in traffic..At
>> highway speeds the temp needle is at a 9 O'clock position rock solid..
>> Radiator fan is on; condensor fan was cycling off and on every 18
>> seconds.. No visible signs of leakage and do not see evidence of
>> antifreeze in the oil..Added another quart of antifreeze..Might have
>> headgasket going bad..
>>
>> Both times the fluid in the overflow bottle was still at MAX level..even
>> though I needed to add 1 quart to the radiator..
>>
>> Question's, isn't the radiator supppose to draw coolant from the
>> overflow bottle should the antifreeze level in the radiator drop??
>>

>
> It can't do this if the radiator cap is not sealing correctly. Pressure
> test the cooling system for leaks and pressure test the cap to check its
> seal. The cap should hold about 13-14 psi or whatever is marked on the
> cap.
>
> Eric
>


I would have thought of that if I had enough time <8^P

Yes, the radiator cap should be the first thing. I recommend replacing it
with a genuine Honda cap on suspicion if it is more than a few years old or
is an aftermarket cap. The top seal is vital to recovery of coolant from the
reservoir; the tiniest leak there will replace coolant in the radiator with
air as the engine cools.

Mike



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 21 Jul 2007, 12:01 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Cooling System Understanding

E Meyer wrote:
> On 7/19/07 5:42 PM, in article
> 5DRni.29008$C96.25989@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net, "Big Brother"
> <someonewatchingyou@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Have a 98 Civic EX; 162,000 miles; Last November at 150,000 did a flush
>> and fill after acquiring the car..At that time made sure that antifreeze
>> in overflow bottle was at MAX mark and radaitor was completely topped
>> off; watched it for a couple weeks; no change in fluid levels...no
>> symptons of overheating
>>
>> 1 week ago I had to add approx 1 quart of antifreeze (using dexcool) to
>> the radiator; antifreeze in overflow bottol was at MAX level..Temp gauge
>> stayed at 9 O' clock position all week after adding antifreeze..

>
> You'll get some comments about using dexcool in a Honda. Anything other
> than Honda coolant makes them eat water pumps.
>> Today watched the temp needle go from 9 O'clock position to close to the
>> red mark ..A/C was on at the time; and was idleing in traffic..At
>> highway speeds the temp needle is at a 9 O'clock position rock solid..
>> Radiator fan is on; condensor fan was cycling off and on every 18
>> seconds.. No visible signs of leakage and do not see evidence of
>> antifreeze in the oil..Added another quart of antifreeze..Might have
>> headgasket going bad..
>>
>> Both times the fluid in the overflow bottle was still at MAX level..even
>> though I needed to add 1 quart to the radiator..
>>
>> Question's, isn't the radiator supppose to draw coolant from the
>> overflow bottle should the antifreeze level in the radiator drop??

>
> You have a leak. Probably the water pump, but also check hoses, heater
> core, radiator itself.
>
> As soon as the radiator gets air in it, it is no longer able to draw
> anything back in from the overflow tank, so nothing will happen there unless
> & until there is absolutely no air in the rest of the system.
>
>> Does this sound most probably like headgasket going bad ??
>>

>
> Not really. Headgasket going bad usually involves the radiator boiling
> over.


well, technically, it's simply bubbling exhaust gas, not boiling as such.

> You'ld see it bubbling up in the overflow tank. Check the coolant for
> an oil slick and check the oil for milkyness (coolant in the oil).


with an open deck honda, [what the op has] coolant in the oil extremely
rare. pressure leakage is straight into the coolant and that just
bubbles out of the expansion bottle.


> Either
> or both are subtler symptoms of a headgasket failure.


for a honda like this, coolant loss, bubbles in the expansion bottle and
sweet exhaust small on morning startup are the most likely symptoms.
but if they're uncertain, use a chemical test.


>
> It sounds more likely from your description that its just a leak.


leaks warrant serious investigation. leaks from the coolant pump can
precede disaster if the pump bearing seizes. likewise, coolant loss to
the extent the motor overheats are highly likely to cause head gasket
failure. gasket won't leak fast at first, but it /will/ start to leak,
and get progressively worse as the miles roll by. fix leaks asap!


>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

>


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