Honda Car Forum

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:SIiii.8690$pa5.17@trndny05...
> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 00:52:21 +0000, Kerry wrote:
>
>>
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>> news%Ehi.882$wu5.139@trndny03...
>>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:05:07 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>>> news:wPphi.70$bh5.29@trndny01...
>>>>> My Mazda 626 seems to have an appetite for speakers. I have replaced
>>>>> the passenger's side front speaker for the third time a couple weeks
>>>>> ago, and already it's buzzing like a bee is trapped in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The speakers installed are capable of MORE than the rated wattage of
>>>>> the JVC Cd player (~22 Watts per channel, speakers are 50W or more)
>>>>> All the other speakers work great, including the Driver's side dash
>>>>> replaced in January as a set with the one that went bad a couple weeks
>>>>> ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> There aren't any leaks, there doesn't appear to be any 'stray
>>>>> magentism' anywhere around, no obstructions or protrusions of any type
>>>>> into the speaker area.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm out of 'inexpensive' speakers (the last one that blew was a
>>>>> Clarion, not the most expensive, but not a cheapo by any means...)
>>>>> Connections are tight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Usually audio problems don't throw me, but this one has me stumped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> What size are these speakers?
>>>
>>>
>>> 5"
>>
>> In my situation it seemd to follow about the 3rd time my teen borrowed
>> the
>> car...every time. I'm sure you know that distortion will kill a speaker
>> as quick as power. This one seemed to think the volume had to be on max
>> for it to work at all.
>
> It doesn't?!
>
> (He don't know me too well...)
>
> I have a JVC headunit in my Supra, powering a 100Wx4 channel amp, and 4
> 100W MB Quarts at each corner. Since the roof comes off the car, I wanted
> something I could hear over the road and wind noise.
>
> 3rd year and no problem! I rarely have problems with my installations.
> That's why this is so perplexing.
>
> But, I am a bass player, so I want to HEAR the bass. It's just odd that
> it's always this one speaker! The left front has been in there since I
> took the original pair out. I always replace with 4 ohm speakers so the
> balance is correct all the way around.


You're asking for something that's *just about* physically impossible from
5" speakers in imperfect enclosures (doors). Here's an experiment you might
want to try, though. I have been told that Radio Shack sells a decibel meter
that reasonably accurate. With the car's top off, and no Harley or 18
wheeler nearby to add noise, measure how many decibels of noise there are
just driving down the road with the radio off. I think you'll find that it's
pretty close to 100db, especially with the wind in certain directions
relative to the car.

To make enough clean, tight bass to overcome that noise if it existed in a
bar, you'd want a lot more power than you have. You'd have larger speakers,
and the enclosures would be designed for those speakers. I'm also a bass
player, so don't debate this, OK?

By the way, what's the brand and model of your car amp?

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:57:47 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> To make enough clean, tight bass to overcome that noise if it existed in a
> bar, you'd want a lot more power than you have. You'd have larger
> speakers, and the enclosures would be designed for those speakers. I'm
> also a bass player, so don't debate this, OK?


But...but...I get a MUCH better sound out of my Ampeg SVT 4-10" than I do
out of my 2-15" Fender! I just have the Fender 'cause it weighs 50 LBS
less!


>
> By the way, what's the brand and model of your car amp?

Genuine Optimus! They were blowing them out when RadShack got out of the
car stereo business. I got it for $30 NIB...

Yeah, not the best. But it's not the Supra that's chewing the speakers,
it's the Mazda. The Supra sounds *GREAT*! (MB Quarts all around help, and
these ones DIDN'T separate from the frames!

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:Sxvii.3010$Nw5.59@trndny04...
> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:57:47 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>> To make enough clean, tight bass to overcome that noise if it existed in
>> a
>> bar, you'd want a lot more power than you have. You'd have larger
>> speakers, and the enclosures would be designed for those speakers. I'm
>> also a bass player, so don't debate this, OK?
>
>
> But...but...I get a MUCH better sound out of my Ampeg SVT 4-10" than I do
> out of my 2-15" Fender! I just have the Fender 'cause it weighs 50 LBS
> less!
>
>
>>
>> By the way, what's the brand and model of your car amp?
>
> Genuine Optimus! They were blowing them out when RadShack got out of the
> car stereo business. I got it for $30 NIB...
>
> Yeah, not the best. But it's not the Supra that's chewing the speakers,
> it's the Mazda. The Supra sounds *GREAT*! (MB Quarts all around help, and
> these ones DIDN'T separate from the frames!
>
>

OK. Save me from having to read back through the clutter again. In the
Mazda, what is powering the speakers? Brand & model of amp, please.

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:23:25 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

>> Yeah, not the best. But it's not the Supra that's chewing the speakers,
>> it's the Mazda. The Supra sounds *GREAT*! (MB Quarts all around help,
>> and these ones DIDN'T separate from the frames!
>>
>>
>>
> OK. Save me from having to read back through the clutter again. In the
> Mazda, what is powering the speakers? Brand & model of amp, please.


Just a plain old JVC head unit rated at 50W/channel (Effectively, 22W RMS)
Speakers rated for 50W


I can't remember when I changed the speakers, because before that I was
running an AIWA CD player. So, I should change the speakers and see if it
still happens.

Problem is, it did it with the original pair in the car with a Kenwood
Cassette deck. I changed the deck and the speakers at the same time, and
then changed the speakers twice more. I'm running out of low-end speakers,
and ain't putting a set of Quarts in there!

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:5Vvii.7451$bh5.6731@trndny01...
> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:23:25 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>>> Yeah, not the best. But it's not the Supra that's chewing the speakers,
>>> it's the Mazda. The Supra sounds *GREAT*! (MB Quarts all around help,
>>> and these ones DIDN'T separate from the frames!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> OK. Save me from having to read back through the clutter again. In the
>> Mazda, what is powering the speakers? Brand & model of amp, please.
>
>
> Just a plain old JVC head unit rated at 50W/channel (Effectively, 22W RMS)
> Speakers rated for 50W
>
>
> I can't remember when I changed the speakers, because before that I was
> running an AIWA CD player. So, I should change the speakers and see if it
> still happens.
>
> Problem is, it did it with the original pair in the car with a Kenwood
> Cassette deck. I changed the deck and the speakers at the same time, and
> then changed the speakers twice more. I'm running out of low-end speakers,
> and ain't putting a set of Quarts in there!
>
>

There's your answer. Your Kenwood is frying the speakers. I don't care WHAT
the claimed wattage is, or how much power the speakers can handle. You don't
have enough power to run them safely.

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:46:41 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:5Vvii.7451$bh5.6731@trndny01...
>> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:23:25 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>
>>>> Yeah, not the best. But it's not the Supra that's chewing the
>>>> speakers, it's the Mazda. The Supra sounds *GREAT*! (MB Quarts all
>>>> around help, and these ones DIDN'T separate from the frames!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> OK. Save me from having to read back through the clutter again. In the
>>> Mazda, what is powering the speakers? Brand & model of amp, please.
>>
>>
>> Just a plain old JVC head unit rated at 50W/channel (Effectively, 22W
>> RMS) Speakers rated for 50W
>>
>>
>> I can't remember when I changed the speakers, because before that I was
>> running an AIWA CD player. So, I should change the speakers and see if
>> it still happens.
>>
>> Problem is, it did it with the original pair in the car with a Kenwood
>> Cassette deck. I changed the deck and the speakers at the same time, and
>> then changed the speakers twice more. I'm running out of low-end
>> speakers, and ain't putting a set of Quarts in there!
>>
>>
>>
> There's your answer. Your Kenwood is frying the speakers. I don't care
> WHAT the claimed wattage is, or how much power the speakers can handle.
> You don't have enough power to run them safely.


I pulled the Kenwood and installed the AIWA. THe left dash speaker was
buzzing off the bat. I replaced it with another set of known good
speakers, and the left dash speaker started buzzing after about 10-12
weeks. I replaced the speakers as a paor with new Clarions. After 10-12
weeks, the new Clarion left dash speaker started buzzing. I replaced the
AIWA with a JVC, and replaced the left dash speaker with another known
good speaker. This time it lasted about 3 weeks...

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:03:27 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts>
wrote:

>I pulled the Kenwood and installed the AIWA. THe left dash speaker was
>buzzing off the bat. I replaced it with another set of known good
>speakers, and the left dash speaker started buzzing after about 10-12
>weeks. I replaced the speakers as a paor with new Clarions. After 10-12
>weeks, the new Clarion left dash speaker started buzzing. I replaced the
>AIWA with a JVC, and replaced the left dash speaker with another known
>good speaker. This time it lasted about 3 weeks...

Are you running through the factory speaker wiring from the radio to
the front speakers? There could be a power cross or a ground in the
harness, and sticking a DC bias on speakers will kill them pronto.

--<< Bruce >>--

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 03:50:37 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:03:27 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>
>>I pulled the Kenwood and installed the AIWA. THe left dash speaker was
>>buzzing off the bat. I replaced it with another set of known good
>>speakers, and the left dash speaker started buzzing after about 10-12
>>weeks. I replaced the speakers as a paor with new Clarions. After 10-12
>>weeks, the new Clarion left dash speaker started buzzing. I replaced the
>>AIWA with a JVC, and replaced the left dash speaker with another known
>>good speaker. This time it lasted about 3 weeks...
>
> Are you running through the factory speaker wiring from the radio to
> the front speakers? There could be a power cross or a ground in the
> harness, and sticking a DC bias on speakers will kill them pronto.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--


Yes, it is the factory wiring, but it appears to have no common grounding
(I thought that went out with Bell-Bottoms...)

Everything looks good. I also have a set of Infinity 6x9's in the rear
deck, and they are performing perfectly. It's just that one speaker in the
dash...

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:SpKii.4232$105.1075@trndny08...
> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 03:50:37 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:03:27 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>>
>>>I pulled the Kenwood and installed the AIWA. THe left dash speaker was
>>>buzzing off the bat. I replaced it with another set of known good
>>>speakers, and the left dash speaker started buzzing after about 10-12
>>>weeks. I replaced the speakers as a paor with new Clarions. After 10-12
>>>weeks, the new Clarion left dash speaker started buzzing. I replaced the
>>>AIWA with a JVC, and replaced the left dash speaker with another known
>>>good speaker. This time it lasted about 3 weeks...
>>
>> Are you running through the factory speaker wiring from the radio to
>> the front speakers? There could be a power cross or a ground in the
>> harness, and sticking a DC bias on speakers will kill them pronto.
>>
>> --<< Bruce >>--
>
>
> Yes, it is the factory wiring, but it appears to have no common grounding
> (I thought that went out with Bell-Bottoms...)
>
> Everything looks good. I also have a set of Infinity 6x9's in the rear
> deck, and they are performing perfectly. It's just that one speaker in the
> dash...
>
>


The floating ground question is a good one. It would cost you what - eleven
cents and 20 minutes to run a pair of speaker wires?

Other points:

- You mentioned that one of the head units had 22 watts RMS per channel. For
4 speakers, two of which are probably eating lots of power (the rears) and
two of which are not in proper enclosers (dash speakers), that's a recipe
for disaster.

- Dash speakers never were a good idea. They still are not a good idea and
never will be a good idea. They are not truly enclosed, so they are not
damped by a mass of air behind them. There are ways to filter out bass only
to those speakers, which effectively makes them into tweeters. Some people
stick capacitors on the speakers, but I never did that and can't help with
details. We used to use crossovers followed by two amplifiers, using combos
like 50 per channel to the rears and 20 per channel to the fronts. Do you
understand that general concept?

- Here's a mantra for you to repeat, for as many days or months it takes to
believe it: There is no head unit with enough power for some car systems.
"System" is defined as the possible assortment of speakers in a given car
(without cutting new holes), combined with the listening habits of the
particular person. If it were possible to build decent power into a package
as small as a head unit, you'd see home stereos that small and light.

Start with new wiring, and then begin chanting the rest of the information
until you're ready to digest more information.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:20:32 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> We used to use crossovers followed by two amplifiers,
> using combos like 50 per channel to the rears and 20 per channel to the
> fronts. Do you understand that general concept?


COOL!!!

I did that with my Corolla GTS: ran a line to the rear of the car, and
then used an electronic crossover, and then ran the outputs from that to
separate amps; 60WPC for the bass, 40WPC for the mids and 30WPC for the
tweets.

The fronts I used just off the shelf RadShack X-overs split to the
speakers. I had 55WPC running the fronts.

It sounded SWEET!