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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2007, 08:13 pm
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

OK, once again I am crossing due to the wealth of knowledge available
across the boards...

My '89 Suby 3-dr coupe's passenger side window would not work. I know when
I looked at the car, the pass window would go DOWN from the driver's side,
but not up. From the passenger's side, it would work.

I got the car here last week, and just went to lok at it today. No Go on
the pass side window, from either side. I took the panel off, and the
regulator had been removed from the door and was just flopping, and the
window was held up by a piece of wood.

I set everything back normal...No Go. After some quick troubleshooting
with a meter, I found voltage going to the switch, but not FROM the
switch, and no ground.

I made an educated guess that the white wire with the black stripe was
ground, ran a jumper from that point to the door frame, et voila...window
goes up and down from the passenger's side of the car. But not so from the
driver's side. There is no operation whatsoever from the driver's side
switch.

I have a suspicion that the white/black wire is still the culprit. Can
someone give me an idea what I'm looking for here...


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jun 2007, 10:00 pm
EdV
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Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

What happens when you bypass the switch and short the wires directly
on the driver side

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jun 2007, 05:43 am
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 03:00:35 +0000, EdV wrote:

> What happens when you bypass the switch and short the wires directly on
> the driver side



I haven't removed the driver's side panel yet. By the time I got it
working on the pass. side it was time to give up and go to bed, so I'm
going to have a look at the other side today.

Basically, I was wondering if anyone had encountered this before, like a
common thing, or if there are any 'peculiarities' I should be aware of!

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jun 2007, 01:19 pm
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:13:04 +0000, Hachiroku * wrote:

> OK, once again I am crossing due to the wealth of knowledge available
> across the boards...
>
> My '89 Suby 3-dr coupe's passenger side window would not work. I know when
> I looked at the car, the pass window would go DOWN from the driver's side,
> but not up. From the passenger's side, it would work.



I guess I should clarify my question a bit. What I'm lacking in
understanding is, how does the driver's side switch control the
passenger's side window? It doesn't appear to be a direct connection to
the motor, so it has to go to the switch.

On the pass side switch, there are 5 wires: Red/Pink,+12V; White/blk,
GND; Blue/Cyan,(down or up); Blue/GRN (down or up); and another blue wire.
I'll have to take a better look; I was concentrating on just getting the
thing put back together and working yesterday. But it seems to me that the
unaccounted for blue wire must be the Down from the driver's switch, and
that the Up connection is missing...


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jun 2007, 11:19 pm
Nick Bourne
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Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

Hachiroku * wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:13:04 +0000, Hachiroku * wrote:
>
>> OK, once again I am crossing due to the wealth of knowledge available
>> across the boards...
>>
>> My '89 Suby 3-dr coupe's passenger side window would not work. I know when
>> I looked at the car, the pass window would go DOWN from the driver's side,
>> but not up. From the passenger's side, it would work.

>
>
> I guess I should clarify my question a bit. What I'm lacking in
> understanding is, how does the driver's side switch control the
> passenger's side window? It doesn't appear to be a direct connection to
> the motor, so it has to go to the switch.
>
> On the pass side switch, there are 5 wires: Red/Pink,+12V; White/blk,
> GND; Blue/Cyan,(down or up); Blue/GRN (down or up); and another blue wire.
> I'll have to take a better look; I was concentrating on just getting the
> thing put back together and working yesterday. But it seems to me that the
> unaccounted for blue wire must be the Down from the driver's switch, and
> that the Up connection is missing...
>
>



If it is a factory fit then in the wiring harness there will be wires
that run from the drivers side to the passenger side that splice into
the up/down wires. If they are aftermarket it may not be connected at
all(seems that way by the wiring you suggested), but if it is there will
be a splice into the up/down wires somewhere along the line. The extra
blue wire is most likely meant to be hooked up to the dash light circuit
to make the switch light up.

FYI the switches work by earthing out both up/down wires then when you
push the switch it disconnects the earth from one wire and connects it
to power. In a master-slave situation the slave switch up/down wires are
earthed back to the master switch so that when the master switch is
working it sends the power through the slave switch then to the motor.


Power Power
_____________ | __________________ |
/ \ | / \ |
Motor Slave Master___ Earth
\______________/ | \__________________/ |
| |
Light Light

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2007, 04:02 am
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:19:40 +1000, Nick Bourne wrote:

> Hachiroku * wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:13:04 +0000, Hachiroku * wrote:
>>
>>> OK, once again I am crossing due to the wealth of knowledge available
>>> across the boards...
>>>
>>> My '89 Suby 3-dr coupe's passenger side window would not work. I know
>>> when I looked at the car, the pass window would go DOWN from the
>>> driver's side, but not up. From the passenger's side, it would work.

>>
>>
>> I guess I should clarify my question a bit. What I'm lacking in
>> understanding is, how does the driver's side switch control the
>> passenger's side window? It doesn't appear to be a direct connection to
>> the motor, so it has to go to the switch.
>>
>> On the pass side switch, there are 5 wires: Red/Pink,+12V; White/blk,
>> GND; Blue/Cyan,(down or up); Blue/GRN (down or up); and another blue
>> wire. I'll have to take a better look; I was concentrating on just
>> getting the thing put back together and working yesterday. But it seems
>> to me that the unaccounted for blue wire must be the Down from the
>> driver's switch, and that the Up connection is missing...
>>
>>
>>

>
> If it is a factory fit then in the wiring harness there will be wires that
> run from the drivers side to the passenger side that splice into the
> up/down wires. If they are aftermarket it may not be connected at
> all(seems that way by the wiring you suggested), but if it is there will
> be a splice into the up/down wires somewhere along the line. The extra
> blue wire is most likely meant to be hooked up to the dash light circuit
> to make the switch light up.
>
> FYI the switches work by earthing out both up/down wires then when you
> push the switch it disconnects the earth from one wire and connects it to
> power. In a master-slave situation the slave switch up/down wires are
> earthed back to the master switch so that when the master switch is
> working it sends the power through the slave switch then to the motor.
>
>
> Power Power
> _____________ | __________________ |
> / \ | / \ |
> Motor Slave Master___ Earth
> \______________/ | \__________________/ |
> | |
> Light Light



Nice drawing! Makes it clearer. I'll check it out later if it doesn't hit
over 100 degrees again today...if not, Friday is supposed to be in the
mid-70's (makes working outside SO much nicer!)

Earth, eh? In 1976 I had a Volvo 1800ES 'estate wagon', based on the
p1800E sports car. Cool little wagon.

The Tach said "Smiths" above the needle mount and "Negative Earth" below
it. It wasn't until a couple years later when I went to Electronics school
that it finally hit me it meant Negative GROUND!

But I thought it was so cool that we named our band Negative Earth...


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2007, 07:02 am
Nick Bourne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

Hachiroku * wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:19:40 +1000, Nick Bourne wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku * wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:13:04 +0000, Hachiroku * wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK, once again I am crossing due to the wealth of knowledge available
>>>> across the boards...
>>>>
>>>> My '89 Suby 3-dr coupe's passenger side window would not work. I know
>>>> when I looked at the car, the pass window would go DOWN from the
>>>> driver's side, but not up. From the passenger's side, it would work.
>>>
>>> I guess I should clarify my question a bit. What I'm lacking in
>>> understanding is, how does the driver's side switch control the
>>> passenger's side window? It doesn't appear to be a direct connection to
>>> the motor, so it has to go to the switch.
>>>
>>> On the pass side switch, there are 5 wires: Red/Pink,+12V; White/blk,
>>> GND; Blue/Cyan,(down or up); Blue/GRN (down or up); and another blue
>>> wire. I'll have to take a better look; I was concentrating on just
>>> getting the thing put back together and working yesterday. But it seems
>>> to me that the unaccounted for blue wire must be the Down from the
>>> driver's switch, and that the Up connection is missing...
>>>
>>>
>>>

>> If it is a factory fit then in the wiring harness there will be wires that
>> run from the drivers side to the passenger side that splice into the
>> up/down wires. If they are aftermarket it may not be connected at
>> all(seems that way by the wiring you suggested), but if it is there will
>> be a splice into the up/down wires somewhere along the line. The extra
>> blue wire is most likely meant to be hooked up to the dash light circuit
>> to make the switch light up.
>>
>> FYI the switches work by earthing out both up/down wires then when you
>> push the switch it disconnects the earth from one wire and connects it to
>> power. In a master-slave situation the slave switch up/down wires are
>> earthed back to the master switch so that when the master switch is
>> working it sends the power through the slave switch then to the motor.
>>
>>
>> Power Power
>> _____________ | __________________ |
>> / \ | / \ |
>> Motor Slave Master___ Earth
>> \______________/ | \__________________/ |
>> | |
>> Light Light

>
>
> Nice drawing! Makes it clearer. I'll check it out later if it doesn't hit
> over 100 degrees again today...if not, Friday is supposed to be in the
> mid-70's (makes working outside SO much nicer!)
>
> Earth, eh? In 1976 I had a Volvo 1800ES 'estate wagon', based on the
> p1800E sports car. Cool little wagon.
>
> The Tach said "Smiths" above the needle mount and "Negative Earth" below
> it. It wasn't until a couple years later when I went to Electronics school
> that it finally hit me it meant Negative GROUND!
>
> But I thought it was so cool that we named our band Negative Earth...
>


Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got
one wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I
can't get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and
neutral. If you touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so
neutral about it.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2007, 11:12 am
Bruce L. Bergman
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:02:17 +1000, Nick Bourne wrote:
>Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:19:40 +1000, Nick Bourne wrote:




>>> If it is a factory fit then in the wiring harness there will be wires that
>>> run from the drivers side to the passenger side that splice into the
>>> up/down wires. If they are aftermarket it may not be connected at
>>> all(seems that way by the wiring you suggested), but if it is there will
>>> be a splice into the up/down wires somewhere along the line. The extra
>>> blue wire is most likely meant to be hooked up to the dash light circuit
>>> to make the switch light up.
>>>
>>> FYI the switches work by earthing out both up/down wires then when you
>>> push the switch it disconnects the earth from one wire and connects it to
>>> power. In a master-slave situation the slave switch up/down wires are
>>> earthed back to the master switch so that when the master switch is
>>> working it sends the power through the slave switch then to the motor.
>>>
>>>
>>> Power Power
>>> _____________ | __________________ |
>>> / \ | / \ |
>>> Motor Slave Master___ Earth
>>> \______________/ | \__________________/ |
>>> | |
>>> Light Light

>>
>>
>> Nice drawing! Makes it clearer. I'll check it out later if it doesn't hit
>> over 100 degrees again today...if not, Friday is supposed to be in the
>> mid-70's (makes working outside SO much nicer!)


One note - the slave switch is supposed to put both lines through to
the traveler wires to the Master switch except when it's being thrown,
so the master switch can run the window. If you have a "Window War"
between the passenger and driver the slave switch will win, because
it's closer to the motor.

>> Earth, eh? In 1976 I had a Volvo 1800ES 'estate wagon', based on the
>> p1800E sports car. Cool little wagon.
>>
>> The Tach said "Smiths" above the needle mount and "Negative Earth" below
>> it. It wasn't until a couple years later when I went to Electronics school
>> that it finally hit me it meant Negative GROUND!
>>
>> But I thought it was so cool that we named our band Negative Earth...

>
>Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
>speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got
>one wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I
>can't get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and
>neutral. If you touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so
>neutral about it.


If it's built right, over here they bond the neutral wires and the
safety earth ground wires at the power service panel on the house.
Sometimes it's all one large bussbar in the service panel.

You can't get shocked on the neutral IF it's properly connected,
there's maybe two to five volts there above ground, due to wire
resistance.

Now if you open the neutral wire and still have a load connected at
the far end, the 120V or 240V power coming back through the neutral
trying to find it's way back to the panel is there to bite you...

Over there in Oz, all bets are off. There are many ways to wire up
power systems that have no earthed conductors, and there are people
who claim leaving it floating is safer... (And I am not one of them.)

--<< Bruce >>--

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2007, 11:20 am
Hachiroku ハチロク
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:02:17 +1000, Nick Bourne wrote:

>> The Tach said "Smiths" above the needle mount and "Negative Earth" below
>> it. It wasn't until a couple years later when I went to Electronics
>> school that it finally hit me it meant Negative GROUND!
>>
>> But I thought it was so cool that we named our band Negative Earth...
>>
>>

> Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
> speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got one
> wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I can't
> get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and neutral. If you
> touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so neutral about it.



I was in electronics for 19 years...

I don't get it either...
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2007, 09:39 pm
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: '89 GL 3-door Coupe Power Windows

"Nick Bourne" <"nabourne at tpg.com.au"> wrote in message
news:468251e1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> Sorry I come from the criminal colonies were the British taught us to
> speak. I think it comes from the original DC power grid where you got one
> wire in and 6 foot steel rod driven into the earth out the back. I can't
> get my head around the whole AC wiring thing of active and neutral. If you
> touch either it give you a shock, can't see what's so neutral about it.
>

I'm not sure how wiring standards are there, but here in Yank-land the
modern standard uses three wires for single phase (120 volt) wiring. Only
one, the "hot" lead (I think there's a formal name for it but it isn't
coming to mind), will produce a shock under normal conditions. The other
two, neutral and ground (safety ground), are connected together at the power
distribution point - in homes and similar, that's the circuit breaker panel.
The current in the hot and neutral wires must balance; ground current
indicates a fault.

It is never wise to bet one's life on it, though. At work we recently began
auditing the low voltage wiring in our substations (I work for an electric
utility) and found some amazing sorts of miswiring. And recently my wife and
I stayed in a hotel room (a mid-scale chain hotel) where turning on the hall
light tripped the GFI breaker in the bathroom. Hmm....

Mike



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