Honda Car Forum


 

Go Back   Honda Car Forum - Accord Parts Civic Tuning Acura Racing > Honda Acura > Honda 2

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 16 Jun 2007, 09:47 am
Trident
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

Am now wondering what all the fuss was about.

To backtrack, I have been reading this newsgroup off and on for the last few
years. I've seen many posts here warning of the importance of changing your
Honda Accord's timing belt at 75,000 miles or 7 years (or whatever the
interval is) or dire consequences will occur.

Long story short, I delayed replacing it for well beyond this replacement
interval but finally replaced both the timing belt and water pump on my 1994
Honda Accord with 98,000 miles on it. I am the original owner and the
timing belt had never been replaced before.

I told the shop to keep the old parts so I could see what they looked like,
expecting their condition to be terrible based on posts I have read here.

When I picked up the vehicle, they had placed the old timing belt and water
pump in a plastic bag for me. The timing belt was a small all-rubber belt
with teeth on it which went all the way around. I carefully inspected this
13 year old timing belt and it looked almost brand new! No cuts, nicks,
gouges, discoloration or any other noticeable wear! It looked fine, like it
didn't really need to be replaced. Not at all what I expected it to look
like.

I'm not saying I wish I didn't have it replaced. It gives me peace of mind
to have done so and if you guys say it's important, well you know alot more
about this stuff than I do. Just saying it didn't look at all like it
needed to be replaced.

Is stretching of the belt over time, which I probably would not be able to
notice, the issue affecting an old timing belt?

Anyway, just not what I expected to see.





Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 16 Jun 2007, 11:55 am
Michael Pardee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

"Trident" <aaa@bbb.com> wrote in message
news:0_WdnSy_qadVZe7bnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Am now wondering what all the fuss was about.
>
> To backtrack, I have been reading this newsgroup off and on for the last
> few
> years. I've seen many posts here warning of the importance of changing
> your
> Honda Accord's timing belt at 75,000 miles or 7 years (or whatever the
> interval is) or dire consequences will occur.
>
> Long story short, I delayed replacing it for well beyond this replacement
> interval but finally replaced both the timing belt and water pump on my
> 1994
> Honda Accord with 98,000 miles on it. I am the original owner and the
> timing belt had never been replaced before.
>
> I told the shop to keep the old parts so I could see what they looked
> like,
> expecting their condition to be terrible based on posts I have read here.
>
> When I picked up the vehicle, they had placed the old timing belt and
> water
> pump in a plastic bag for me. The timing belt was a small all-rubber belt
> with teeth on it which went all the way around. I carefully inspected
> this
> 13 year old timing belt and it looked almost brand new! No cuts, nicks,
> gouges, discoloration or any other noticeable wear! It looked fine, like
> it
> didn't really need to be replaced. Not at all what I expected it to look
> like.
>
> I'm not saying I wish I didn't have it replaced. It gives me peace of
> mind
> to have done so and if you guys say it's important, well you know alot
> more
> about this stuff than I do. Just saying it didn't look at all like it
> needed to be replaced.
>
> Is stretching of the belt over time, which I probably would not be able to
> notice, the issue affecting an old timing belt?
>
> Anyway, just not what I expected to see.
>
>
>
>
>
>

A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually
dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the
tensioner. The failure typically occurs where the teeth attach to the belt.
On a new belt the teeth are firmly attached. By the time it's ready to be
replaced the teeth can be picked off with a knife blade. I'd expect yours to
be in that condition. By the time I replaced the belt on our old Volvo - a
non-interference engine - at about 150K miles the teeth could be picked off
with a thumbnail. Although the belt is often referred to as "breaking" I've
never personally seen one fail that way. They don't stretch measureably.
Timing chains are said to stretch, but as with bicycle chains it is really
that the pivots wear and the slack makes the overall chain longer.

That lack of visible change in the timing belt is why they are replaced on
schedule rather than on visual inspection. There is no reliable visible
warning of impending failure.

Mike



Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 16 Jun 2007, 12:42 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

"Trident" <aaa@bbb.com> wrote in
news:0_WdnSy_qadVZe7bnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com:

> Am now wondering what all the fuss was about.
>
> To backtrack, I have been reading this newsgroup off and on for the
> last few years. I've seen many posts here warning of the importance
> of changing your Honda Accord's timing belt at 75,000 miles or 7 years
> (or whatever the interval is) or dire consequences will occur.
>
> Long story short, I delayed replacing it for well beyond this
> replacement interval but finally replaced both the timing belt and
> water pump on my 1994 Honda Accord with 98,000 miles on it. I am the
> original owner and the timing belt had never been replaced before.
>
> I told the shop to keep the old parts so I could see what they looked
> like, expecting their condition to be terrible based on posts I have
> read here.
>
> When I picked up the vehicle, they had placed the old timing belt and
> water pump in a plastic bag for me. The timing belt was a small
> all-rubber belt with teeth on it which went all the way around.




It's not "all rubber". It has a fabric carcass that extends even into
the teeth. The carcass provides the belt with all its strength.



> I
> carefully inspected this 13 year old timing belt and it looked almost
> brand new! No cuts, nicks, gouges, discoloration or any other
> noticeable wear! It looked fine,




Wear manifests as deterioration of the fabric carcass. You cannot see
that wear with your eyes.

You have no idea when the carcass has weakened to the point of failure
until the weave separates and the belt breaks or the teeth strip off.



> like it didn't really need to be
> replaced. Not at all what I expected it to look like.
>
> I'm not saying I wish I didn't have it replaced. It gives me peace of
> mind to have done so and if you guys say it's important, well you know
> alot more about this stuff than I do. Just saying it didn't look at
> all like it needed to be replaced.




They never do.


>
> Is stretching of the belt over time, which I probably would not be
> able to notice, the issue affecting an old timing belt?




See above.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 16 Jun 2007, 12:57 pm
Trident
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> It's not "all rubber". It has a fabric carcass that extends even into the

teeth. The carcass provides the belt with all its strength.

So is the fabric in the core of the timing belt surrounded by the rubber so
that it cannot be seen? I still have the old timing belt, and when I
inspect it carefully I cannot see fabric anywhere. I can see how the fabric
would provide added strength. Maybe I'll disect it and see exactly how the
fabric works.

Thanks.



Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 17 Jun 2007, 05:57 am
Eric
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually
> dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the
> tensioner. The failure typically occurs where the teeth attach to the
> belt. On a new belt the teeth are firmly attached. By the time it's ready
> to be replaced the teeth can be picked off with a knife blade. I'd expect
> yours to be in that condition. By the time I replaced the belt on our old
> Volvo - a non-interference engine - at about 150K miles the teeth could be
> picked off with a thumbnail. Although the belt is often referred to as
> "breaking" I've never personally seen one fail that way. They don't
> stretch measureably.


I've seen a few stretch. This was typical of mid to late 80's Accords and
Preludes if I remember correctly. The belt would stretch and then the
distributor would start making a tapping noise. Retensioning the belt would
usually set things straight and quiet down the distributor.

Eric
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 17 Jun 2007, 07:38 am
Michael Pardee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:4675138D.D5FDFB01@spam.now...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>> A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually
>> dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the
>> tensioner. The failure typically occurs where the teeth attach to the
>> belt. On a new belt the teeth are firmly attached. By the time it's ready
>> to be replaced the teeth can be picked off with a knife blade. I'd expect
>> yours to be in that condition. By the time I replaced the belt on our old
>> Volvo - a non-interference engine - at about 150K miles the teeth could
>> be
>> picked off with a thumbnail. Although the belt is often referred to as
>> "breaking" I've never personally seen one fail that way. They don't
>> stretch measureably.

>
> I've seen a few stretch. This was typical of mid to late 80's Accords and
> Preludes if I remember correctly. The belt would stretch and then the
> distributor would start making a tapping noise. Retensioning the belt
> would
> usually set things straight and quiet down the distributor.
>
> Eric
>


Interesting. Maybe a reinforcing fabric that has since been updated, I hope.

Mike



Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 17 Jun 2007, 08:49 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

Eric wrote:
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually
>> dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the
>> tensioner. The failure typically occurs where the teeth attach to the
>> belt. On a new belt the teeth are firmly attached. By the time it's ready
>> to be replaced the teeth can be picked off with a knife blade. I'd expect
>> yours to be in that condition. By the time I replaced the belt on our old
>> Volvo - a non-interference engine - at about 150K miles the teeth could be
>> picked off with a thumbnail. Although the belt is often referred to as
>> "breaking" I've never personally seen one fail that way. They don't
>> stretch measureably.

>
> I've seen a few stretch. This was typical of mid to late 80's Accords and
> Preludes if I remember correctly. The belt would stretch and then the
> distributor would start making a tapping noise. Retensioning the belt would
> usually set things straight and quiet down the distributor.
>
> Eric


that's /highly/ unlikely. much more probable it was never set right in
the first place. the tensioning procedure is somewhat involved and in
my experience, frequently not done right.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 17 Jun 2007, 09:14 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

Trident wrote:
> Am now wondering what all the fuss was about.
>
> To backtrack, I have been reading this newsgroup off and on for the last few
> years. I've seen many posts here warning of the importance of changing your
> Honda Accord's timing belt at 75,000 miles or 7 years (or whatever the
> interval is) or dire consequences will occur.
>
> Long story short, I delayed replacing it for well beyond this replacement
> interval but finally replaced both the timing belt and water pump on my 1994
> Honda Accord with 98,000 miles on it. I am the original owner and the
> timing belt had never been replaced before.
>
> I told the shop to keep the old parts so I could see what they looked like,
> expecting their condition to be terrible based on posts I have read here.
>
> When I picked up the vehicle, they had placed the old timing belt and water
> pump in a plastic bag for me. The timing belt was a small all-rubber belt
> with teeth on it which went all the way around. I carefully inspected this
> 13 year old timing belt and it looked almost brand new! No cuts, nicks,
> gouges, discoloration or any other noticeable wear! It looked fine, like it
> didn't really need to be replaced. Not at all what I expected it to look
> like.
>
> I'm not saying I wish I didn't have it replaced. It gives me peace of mind
> to have done so and if you guys say it's important, well you know alot more
> about this stuff than I do. Just saying it didn't look at all like it
> needed to be replaced.
>
> Is stretching of the belt over time, which I probably would not be able to
> notice, the issue affecting an old timing belt?
>
> Anyway, just not what I expected to see.
>
>
>
>
>

the fibers in the belt start to fatigue. can't see them obviously.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 18 Jun 2007, 09:25 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

"Trident" <aaa@bbb.com> wrote in
news:2rqdnVdmzZz7uOnbnZ2dnUVZ_qarnZ2d@comcast.com:

> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> It's not "all rubber". It has a fabric carcass that extends even into
>> the

> teeth. The carcass provides the belt with all its strength.
>
> So is the fabric in the core of the timing belt surrounded by the
> rubber so that it cannot be seen? I still have the old timing belt,
> and when I inspect it carefully I cannot see fabric anywhere. I can
> see how the fabric would provide added strength. Maybe I'll disect it
> and see exactly how the fabric works.
>




Belt manufacture starts with the fabric. The carcass is then impregnated
with rubber under high pressure.

Trust me. Your timing belt has fabric in it.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 18 Jun 2007, 10:34 pm
Trident
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Replaced Timing Belt but . . .

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> Trust me. Your timing belt has fabric in it.


I believe you. I'm just a curious guy. I like to see exactly how things
work in an attempt to educate myself.

Wishful thinking, perhaps.


Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DelSol B16A Ignition Timing out but Cam Belt Timing is correct fish Honda 2 12 12 Aug 2006 10:34 am
replaced timing belt, now big oil leak JLA Honda 3 6 18 Dec 2005 06:07 pm
91 integra replaced timing belt but still will not start. LNHAVARD Acura 6 15 May 2005 11:47 pm
Replaced timing belt - now ignition timing is off Frankie Acura 4 09 Dec 2004 02:53 am
Timing belt replaced, car won't start Tom Post Acura 7 29 Sep 2004 10:12 pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:15 pm.


Attribution:
Honda News | Autoblog
Powered by Yahoo Answers




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
HondaCarForum.com is not affiliated with Honda Motor Company in any way. Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse HondaCarForum.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.