Honda Car Forum

Hi,

I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
with 200 miles on the clock.

Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.

I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".

I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
they were bad.

I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
all cylinders and no other codes.

Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Ari Rankum wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
> with 200 miles on the clock.
>
> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>
> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>
> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
> they were bad.
>
> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
> all cylinders and no other codes.
>
> Anybody got any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance.

I think you're probably on the right track. 3-year-old gas can clog up
nearly everything in the fuel system. The lines, the injectors, the
filter, etc. I'd still like to see what everyone else thinks, but old
gasoline is almost always bad news.

Jon

P.S. You may want to flush the fuel tank, and then run a can of SeaFoam
through it with premium grade gas and see if that helps. I know it
couldn't hurt. ;-)

BigJon wrote:
> Ari Rankum wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
>> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
>> with 200 miles on the clock.
>>
>> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
>> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
>> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
>> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>>
>> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
>> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
>> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
>> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
>> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
>> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>>
>> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
>> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
>> they were bad.
>>
>> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
>> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
>> all cylinders and no other codes.
>>
>> Anybody got any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> I think you're probably on the right track. 3-year-old gas can clog up
> nearly everything in the fuel system. The lines, the injectors, the
> filter, etc. I'd still like to see what everyone else thinks, but old
> gasoline is almost always bad news.
>
> Jon
>
> P.S. You may want to flush the fuel tank, and then run a can of SeaFoam
> through it with premium grade gas and see if that helps. I know it
> couldn't hurt. ;-)


Thanks, Jon. I picked up a can of SeaFoam on the way back from the
dealer - so we're on the same track. I may have substantially gunked up
the fuel filter with the first batch of gas. But I think what is in the
tank now is okay. I was half-way through a tank of Costco gas on Friday
when this started. I topped up the tank today and threw in a whole pint
of SeaFoam. I was going to replace the fuel filter tomorrow (if I can
figure out where that lives on an 03 Accord) and run some of the SeaFoam
gas through the injectors.

On 6/9/2007 9:11 PM Ari Rankum spake these words of knowledge:

> Hi,
>
> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
> with 200 miles on the clock.

So you ran 4 - 5 tanks through here before the problem showed up?


> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>
> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>
> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
> they were bad.

My 2003 Accord 4-cyl (AT) did need one of the two O2 sensors (the rear
one) replaced, at only 60-some thousand miles, but as the dealer said to
you, I got a code which indicated that.


> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
> all cylinders and no other codes.

I would surely agree, but I wonder why the effects wouldn't materialize
until you had gone through 4 - 5 tanksful.

Wish I could be more help; I highly recommend the Helms manual for the car.

Dave Kelsen
--
Our next president should be fluent in at least one language.

Ari Rankum wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
> with 200 miles on the clock.
>
> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>
> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>
> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
> they were bad.
>
> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
> all cylinders and no other codes.
>
> Anybody got any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance.

The problem turned out to be a single failed "coil pack" - those things
that sit on top of the spark plugs in place of a coil and distributor
and ignition wire. Only 100 bucks to replace (the cost of three rotors,
distributor caps, sets of plugs, and sets of ignition wires). Progress,
got to love it.

"Ari Rankum" <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:HyQbi.6712$xg4.2089@trnddc08...
> Ari Rankum wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
>> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
>> with 200 miles on the clock.
>>
>> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
>> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
>> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
>> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>>
>> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
>> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
>> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
>> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
>> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
>> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>>
>> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
>> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
>> they were bad.
>>
>> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
>> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
>> all cylinders and no other codes.
>>
>> Anybody got any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> The problem turned out to be a single failed "coil pack" - those things
> that sit on top of the spark plugs in place of a coil and distributor
> and ignition wire. Only 100 bucks to replace (the cost of three rotors,
> distributor caps, sets of plugs, and sets of ignition wires). Progress,
> got to love it.
>

Thanks for the feedback, Ari. It will help us with the next guy. :-)

Was the original diagnosis of "... all cylinders" in error, or did the one
failed pack actually affect more than the one cylinder?

Mike

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Ari Rankum" <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:HyQbi.6712$xg4.2089@trnddc08...
>> Ari Rankum wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
>>> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
>>> with 200 miles on the clock.
>>>
>>> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
>>> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
>>> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
>>> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>>>
>>> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
>>> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
>>> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
>>> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
>>> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
>>> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>>>
>>> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
>>> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
>>> they were bad.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
>>> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
>>> all cylinders and no other codes.
>>>
>>> Anybody got any ideas?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>> The problem turned out to be a single failed "coil pack" - those things
>> that sit on top of the spark plugs in place of a coil and distributor
>> and ignition wire. Only 100 bucks to replace (the cost of three rotors,
>> distributor caps, sets of plugs, and sets of ignition wires). Progress,
>> got to love it.
>>
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Ari. It will help us with the next guy. :-)
>
> Was the original diagnosis of "... all cylinders" in error, or did the one
> failed pack actually affect more than the one cylinder?
>
Good question - I asked the same one. I had two different places dump
the codes, and both said mis-fires on all cylinders. I was really
dubious when the tech told me it was just one coil pack. The tech
admitted to being somewhat dubious himself. We jointly came up with
some half-baked theory about a crankshaft sensor and O2 sensor and ECU
all correcting for each other and causing other misses. I agree - it
sounded like total crap, but we did both believe the one failed coil
pack was at least part of the problem. So we ordered it from another
dealer.

Unfortunately, the coil pack didn't arrive until after all the techs had
left for the day. So, when I came to get my car, there was my car with
a bad coil pack and a shiny box with my name on it. With only a little
persistence, I was able to get someone in the service department to give
me a 10mm socket wrench, and I installed the new coil pack right there
in the rain. Fortunately, the techs had cleared the check engine code
before they left for the day, and the one bad coil pack fixed the whole
deal - all cylinders firing as normal.

Ari Rankum wrote:
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "Ari Rankum" <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:HyQbi.6712$xg4.2089@trnddc08...
>>> Ari Rankum wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
>>>> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
>>>> with 200 miles on the clock.
>>>>
>>>> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing, badly.
>>>> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or more
>>>> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
>>>> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>>>>
>>>> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
>>>> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
>>>> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
>>>> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
>>>> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
>>>> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>>>>
>>>> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
>>>> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
>>>> they were bad.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that I may
>>>> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
>>>> all cylinders and no other codes.
>>>>
>>>> Anybody got any ideas?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> The problem turned out to be a single failed "coil pack" - those things
>>> that sit on top of the spark plugs in place of a coil and distributor
>>> and ignition wire. Only 100 bucks to replace (the cost of three rotors,
>>> distributor caps, sets of plugs, and sets of ignition wires). Progress,
>>> got to love it.
>>>
>> Thanks for the feedback, Ari. It will help us with the next guy. :-)
>>
>> Was the original diagnosis of "... all cylinders" in error, or did the one
>> failed pack actually affect more than the one cylinder?
>>
> Good question - I asked the same one. I had two different places dump
> the codes, and both said mis-fires on all cylinders. I was really
> dubious when the tech told me it was just one coil pack. The tech
> admitted to being somewhat dubious himself. We jointly came up with
> some half-baked theory about a crankshaft sensor and O2 sensor and ECU
> all correcting for each other and causing other misses. I agree - it
> sounded like total crap, but we did both believe the one failed coil
> pack was at least part of the problem. So we ordered it from another
> dealer.
>
> Unfortunately, the coil pack didn't arrive until after all the techs had
> left for the day. So, when I came to get my car, there was my car with
> a bad coil pack and a shiny box with my name on it. With only a little
> persistence, I was able to get someone in the service department to give
> me a 10mm socket wrench, and I installed the new coil pack right there
> in the rain. Fortunately, the techs had cleared the check engine code
> before they left for the day, and the one bad coil pack fixed the whole
> deal - all cylinders firing as normal.

how did you know which cylinder to put it on?

jim beam wrote:
> Ari Rankum wrote:
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>> "Ari Rankum" <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:HyQbi.6712$xg4.2089@trnddc08...
>>>> Ari Rankum wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
>>>>> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
>>>>> with 200 miles on the clock.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing,
>>>>> badly.
>>>>> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or
>>>>> more
>>>>> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
>>>>> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
>>>>> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
>>>>> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
>>>>> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
>>>>> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
>>>>> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
>>>>> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
>>>>> they were bad.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that
>>>>> I may
>>>>> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
>>>>> all cylinders and no other codes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody got any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>> The problem turned out to be a single failed "coil pack" - those things
>>>> that sit on top of the spark plugs in place of a coil and distributor
>>>> and ignition wire. Only 100 bucks to replace (the cost of three
>>>> rotors,
>>>> distributor caps, sets of plugs, and sets of ignition wires).
>>>> Progress,
>>>> got to love it.
>>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback, Ari. It will help us with the next guy. :-)
>>>
>>> Was the original diagnosis of "... all cylinders" in error, or did
>>> the one failed pack actually affect more than the one cylinder?
>>>
>> Good question - I asked the same one. I had two different places dump
>> the codes, and both said mis-fires on all cylinders. I was really
>> dubious when the tech told me it was just one coil pack. The tech
>> admitted to being somewhat dubious himself. We jointly came up with
>> some half-baked theory about a crankshaft sensor and O2 sensor and ECU
>> all correcting for each other and causing other misses. I agree - it
>> sounded like total crap, but we did both believe the one failed coil
>> pack was at least part of the problem. So we ordered it from another
>> dealer.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the coil pack didn't arrive until after all the techs had
>> left for the day. So, when I came to get my car, there was my car with
>> a bad coil pack and a shiny box with my name on it. With only a little
>> persistence, I was able to get someone in the service department to give
>> me a 10mm socket wrench, and I installed the new coil pack right there
>> in the rain. Fortunately, the techs had cleared the check engine code
>> before they left for the day, and the one bad coil pack fixed the whole
>> deal - all cylinders firing as normal.
>
> how did you know which cylinder to put it on?

Heh. Another good question. I pulled the cover off and stared at the
coil packs and had the same thought. Panic set in for milliseconds
until I saw the "X" drawn across the top of one of them in what looked
like white chalk. Phew.

They were able to narrow it down with the car running by swapping the
coil pack around and determining by process of elimination. They did me
the favor of marking it before buttoning the car back up.

Ari Rankum wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Ari Rankum wrote:
>>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>> "Ari Rankum" <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:HyQbi.6712$xg4.2089@trnddc08...
>>>>> Ari Rankum wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a 2003 Accord EX 4-cyl with M/T that is on its 6th tank of gas,
>>>>>> ever. Yes, it has only 2000 miles on it. I bought it two months ago
>>>>>> with 200 miles on the clock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two days ago, on the way home from work, the car started missing,
>>>>>> badly.
>>>>>> It feels a lot like a drenched ignition system. Clearly, one or
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> cylinders is not firing. I had a prior Accord that munched its own
>>>>>> distributor, and this car is behaving a lot like that one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I dropped by the dealer today. He dumped the codes and said, "you're
>>>>>> missing, really badly, on all cylinders". ( I resisted the urge to
>>>>>> invoke the name of Sherlock) He didn't have time to work on it today,
>>>>>> but guessed it was "fuel". I went and pulled the plugs. They all
>>>>>> looked fine, maybe a little carbon buildup on #3 and #4. So I cleaned
>>>>>> and gapped them all. I put them back and, "no help".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've heard that the O2 sensor and the EGR valve are common problems on
>>>>>> the 03 Accord. But the dealer said they would have thrown a code if
>>>>>> they were bad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm thinking, cuz the car was sold to me with 3-year-old gas, that
>>>>>> I may
>>>>>> have a gunked up fuel filter. That would certainly explain missing on
>>>>>> all cylinders and no other codes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody got any ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>> The problem turned out to be a single failed "coil pack" - those things
>>>>> that sit on top of the spark plugs in place of a coil and distributor
>>>>> and ignition wire. Only 100 bucks to replace (the cost of three
>>>>> rotors,
>>>>> distributor caps, sets of plugs, and sets of ignition wires).
>>>>> Progress,
>>>>> got to love it.
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the feedback, Ari. It will help us with the next guy. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Was the original diagnosis of "... all cylinders" in error, or did
>>>> the one failed pack actually affect more than the one cylinder?
>>>>
>>> Good question - I asked the same one. I had two different places dump
>>> the codes, and both said mis-fires on all cylinders. I was really
>>> dubious when the tech told me it was just one coil pack. The tech
>>> admitted to being somewhat dubious himself. We jointly came up with
>>> some half-baked theory about a crankshaft sensor and O2 sensor and ECU
>>> all correcting for each other and causing other misses. I agree - it
>>> sounded like total crap, but we did both believe the one failed coil
>>> pack was at least part of the problem. So we ordered it from another
>>> dealer.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the coil pack didn't arrive until after all the techs had
>>> left for the day. So, when I came to get my car, there was my car with
>>> a bad coil pack and a shiny box with my name on it. With only a little
>>> persistence, I was able to get someone in the service department to give
>>> me a 10mm socket wrench, and I installed the new coil pack right there
>>> in the rain. Fortunately, the techs had cleared the check engine code
>>> before they left for the day, and the one bad coil pack fixed the whole
>>> deal - all cylinders firing as normal.
>> how did you know which cylinder to put it on?
>
> Heh. Another good question. I pulled the cover off and stared at the
> coil packs and had the same thought. Panic set in for milliseconds
> until I saw the "X" drawn across the top of one of them in what looked
> like white chalk. Phew.
>
> They were able to narrow it down with the car running by swapping the
> coil pack around and determining by process of elimination. They did me
> the favor of marking it before buttoning the car back up.

good!

still confusing though - if it was just one coil, you should have gotten
a code for misfire on just that one cylinder, not all of them. can you
see if the crankshaft sensor/sender wheel is clean and in good
condition? that's the sensor that triggers the code from what i understand.