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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2007, 09:47 am
bill
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Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

On May 23, 10:26 am, "jp2express" <jp2mail-tempfo...@noSpamyahoo.com>
wrote:
> I guess it boils down to the way each individual views things.
>
> I tend to think along the same lines as Jeremy: If the insides of the
> transmission are fully automated, fluid controlled, and use a torque
> converter instead of a clutch, I call it an automatic transmission. On the
> other hand, if the gears are physically enguaged/disenguaged with levers and
> actuators and/or requires a clutch, that is a manual transmission in my
> book - no matter how many gismos are bolted on top to do the shifting.
>
> Back to the main article: Greg Wilson (the author) says the VW has a "
> 6-speed manual transmission that shifts automatically." It sound like Mr.
> Wilson also views this as a manual transmission, but is pointing out that
> the operator may have no control over the gear selection (other than Park,
> Reverse, Neutral, and Drive).
>
> The lesson here is: If someone is trying to sell you a car that says it has
> an automatic transmission, the Buyer may want to ask for more details.
> Otherwise, he may get a vehicle that comes with someone in the passenger's
> seat to shift the gears for him!


yeah, seems to be basically a semantics issue, to me "automatic
transmission" is a specific methodology, as different from a
hydrostatic, a centrifugal, or any of the other methodologies that
alter gear ratios without intervention from the driver, and a manual
transmission is likewise a specific methodology. however, that's the
engineers perspective, the english majors perspective is "what does
the word manual mean?" and that's fair too, and no call for insulting
anyone.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2007, 10:03 am
jp2express
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Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

A+

"bill" wrote:
> ...the english majors perspective is "what does
> the word manual mean?" and that's fair too, and no call for insulting
> anyone.
>



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2007, 08:58 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

bill wrote:
> On May 23, 10:26 am, "jp2express" <jp2mail-tempfo...@noSpamyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> I guess it boils down to the way each individual views things.
>>
>> I tend to think along the same lines as Jeremy: If the insides of the
>> transmission are fully automated, fluid controlled, and use a torque
>> converter instead of a clutch, I call it an automatic transmission. On the
>> other hand, if the gears are physically enguaged/disenguaged with levers and
>> actuators and/or requires a clutch, that is a manual transmission in my
>> book - no matter how many gismos are bolted on top to do the shifting.
>>
>> Back to the main article: Greg Wilson (the author) says the VW has a "
>> 6-speed manual transmission that shifts automatically." It sound like Mr.
>> Wilson also views this as a manual transmission, but is pointing out that
>> the operator may have no control over the gear selection (other than Park,
>> Reverse, Neutral, and Drive).
>>
>> The lesson here is: If someone is trying to sell you a car that says it has
>> an automatic transmission, the Buyer may want to ask for more details.
>> Otherwise, he may get a vehicle that comes with someone in the passenger's
>> seat to shift the gears for him!

>
> yeah, seems to be basically a semantics issue, to me "automatic
> transmission" is a specific methodology, as different from a
> hydrostatic, a centrifugal, or any of the other methodologies that
> alter gear ratios without intervention from the driver, and a manual
> transmission is likewise a specific methodology. however, that's the
> engineers perspective, the english majors perspective is "what does
> the word manual mean?" and that's fair too, and no call for insulting
> anyone.
>

bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
without manual intervention.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 24 May 2007, 08:27 am
jp2express
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

Obviously, being an engineer does not make one bright or open minded.

"jim beam" wrote:
> bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
> the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
> controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
> without manual intervention.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 25 May 2007, 10:45 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

jp2express wrote:
> Obviously, being an engineer does not make one bright or open minded.


from that statement, i have to assume that you're not an engineer. in
which case, arguing about "automation" is a pointless exercise.

>
> "jim beam" wrote:
>> bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
>> the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
>> controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
>> without manual intervention.

>
>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 25 May 2007, 03:33 pm
jp2express
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

I am a Software Engineer, bright and open minded. Therefore, so being an
engineer must not be where those traits come from.

The topic wasn't even about whether or not we were dealing with automation.
It is how the term "Automatic" is used in the automotive industry. You might
want to go back over some of the older posts to refresh your memory.

Did you get your degree from an accredited University? Which one?

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:1IednZZwx98xmcrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> jp2express wrote:
>> Obviously, being an engineer does not make one bright or open minded.

>
> from that statement, i have to assume that you're not an engineer. in
> which case, arguing about "automation" is a pointless exercise.
>
>>
>> "jim beam" wrote:
>>> bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
>>> the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
>>> controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
>>> without manual intervention.

>>


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25 May 2007, 03:53 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

jp2express wrote:
> I am a Software Engineer,


that explain a lot.

> bright and open minded.


evidently not regarding "automation".

> Therefore, so being an
> engineer must not be where those traits come from.


eh? are you e.s.l. perchance?

>
> The topic wasn't even about whether or not we were dealing with automation.
> It is how the term "Automatic" is used in the automotive industry. You might
> want to go back over some of the older posts to refresh your memory.


er, you may want to read my previous posts.

>
> Did you get your degree from an accredited University? Which one?


i found my degrees in the mens room after a party. one still smells a
bit strong. but it's ok, i can pose as a rocket surgeon on usenet.
unless i get it wrong of course.

now, "Therefore, so being an engineer" what does "automation" mean again?

>
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:1IednZZwx98xmcrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> jp2express wrote:
>>> Obviously, being an engineer does not make one bright or open minded.

>> from that statement, i have to assume that you're not an engineer. in
>> which case, arguing about "automation" is a pointless exercise.
>>
>>> "jim beam" wrote:
>>>> bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
>>>> the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
>>>> controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
>>>> without manual intervention.

>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 25 May 2007, 04:07 pm
bill
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

On May 25, 4:53 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> jp2express wrote:
> > I am a Software Engineer,

>
> that explain a lot.
>
> > bright and open minded.

>
> evidently not regarding "automation".
>
> > Therefore, so being an
> > engineer must not be where those traits come from.

>
> eh? are you e.s.l. perchance?
>
>
>
> > The topic wasn't even about whether or not we were dealing with automation.
> > It is how the term "Automatic" is used in the automotive industry. You might
> > want to go back over some of the older posts to refresh your memory.

>
> er, you may want to read my previous posts.
>
>
>
> > Did you get your degree from an accredited University? Which one?

>
> i found my degrees in the mens room after a party. one still smells a
> bit strong. but it's ok, i can pose as a rocket surgeon on usenet.
> unless i get it wrong of course.
>
> now, "Therefore, so being an engineer" what does "automation" mean again?
>
>
>
> > "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> >news:1IednZZwx98xmcrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@speakeasy.n et...
> >> jp2express wrote:
> >>> Obviously, being an engineer does not make one bright or open minded.
> >> from that statement, i have to assume that you're not an engineer. in
> >> which case, arguing about "automation" is a pointless exercise.

>
> >>> "jim beam" wrote:
> >>>> bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
> >>>> the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
> >>>> controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
> >>>> without manual intervention.



"automation" means machines performing functionality that had
previously een performed by people.
"automatic transmission" is used in the automotive industry to
indicate a specific type of self-shifting transmission. "automatic
transmission" is also used to indicate any transmission that changes
gear ratios without human intervention by certain pompous shitheads
who can never seem to admit that 2 people can look at the same thing
and come to 2 different conclusions.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 25 May 2007, 06:08 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

bill wrote:
> On May 25, 4:53 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> jp2express wrote:
>>> I am a Software Engineer,

>> that explain a lot.
>>
>>> bright and open minded.

>> evidently not regarding "automation".
>>
>>> Therefore, so being an
>>> engineer must not be where those traits come from.

>> eh? are you e.s.l. perchance?
>>
>>
>>
>>> The topic wasn't even about whether or not we were dealing with automation.
>>> It is how the term "Automatic" is used in the automotive industry. You might
>>> want to go back over some of the older posts to refresh your memory.

>> er, you may want to read my previous posts.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Did you get your degree from an accredited University? Which one?

>> i found my degrees in the mens room after a party. one still smells a
>> bit strong. but it's ok, i can pose as a rocket surgeon on usenet.
>> unless i get it wrong of course.
>>
>> now, "Therefore, so being an engineer" what does "automation" mean again?
>>
>>
>>
>>> "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1IednZZwx98xmcrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> jp2express wrote:
>>>>> Obviously, being an engineer does not make one bright or open minded.
>>>> from that statement, i have to assume that you're not an engineer. in
>>>> which case, arguing about "automation" is a pointless exercise.
>>>>> "jim beam" wrote:
>>>>>> bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
>>>>>> the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
>>>>>> controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
>>>>>> without manual intervention.

>
>
> "automation" means machines performing functionality that had
> previously een performed by people.
> "automatic transmission" is used in the automotive industry to
> indicate a specific type of self-shifting transmission. "automatic
> transmission" is also used to indicate any transmission that changes
> gear ratios without human intervention by certain pompous shitheads
> who can never seem to admit that 2 people can look at the same thing
> and come to 2 different conclusions.
>


self-induced myopia or name-calling doesn't change facts.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 29 May 2007, 01:44 pm
bill
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Volkswagon unveils car that gets 282 miles to the gallon.

On May 25, 7:08 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> bill wrote:
> > On May 25, 4:53 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> jp2express wrote:
> >>> I am a Software Engineer,
> >> that explain a lot.

>
> >>> bright and open minded.
> >> evidently not regarding "automation".

>
> >>> Therefore, so being an
> >>> engineer must not be where those traits come from.
> >> eh? are you e.s.l. perchance?

>
> >>> The topic wasn't even about whether or not we were dealing with automation.
> >>> It is how the term "Automatic" is used in the automotive industry. You might
> >>> want to go back over some of the older posts to refresh your memory.
> >> er, you may want to read my previous posts.

>
> >>> Did you get your degree from an accredited University? Which one?
> >> i found my degrees in the mens room after a party. one still smells a
> >> bit strong. but it's ok, i can pose as a rocket surgeon on usenet.
> >> unless i get it wrong of course.

>
> >> now, "Therefore, so being an engineer" what does "automation" mean again?

>
> >>> "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:1IednZZwx98xmcrbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@speakeasy .net...
> >>>> jp2express wrote:
> >>>>> Obviously, being an engineer does not make one bright or open minded.
> >>>> from that statement, i have to assume that you're not an engineer. in
> >>>> which case, arguing about "automation" is a pointless exercise.
> >>>>> "jim beam" wrote:
> >>>>>> bullshit. i'm an engineer, and method's go nothing to do with it. it's
> >>>>>> the effect achieved that matters. you can have your transmission
> >>>>>> controlled by a cage of hamsters if achieves the "automatic" effect
> >>>>>> without manual intervention.

>
> > "automation" means machines performing functionality that had
> > previously een performed by people.
> > "automatic transmission" is used in the automotive industry to
> > indicate a specific type of self-shifting transmission. "automatic
> > transmission" is also used to indicate any transmission that changes
> > gear ratios without human intervention by certain pompous shitheads
> > who can never seem to admit that 2 people can look at the same thing
> > and come to 2 different conclusions.

>
> self-induced myopia or name-calling doesn't change facts.


Nor does slinging poo create them. It isn't an insult to call a
poo flinging moron a poo flinging moron, it's an accurate label.

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