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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 12:42 am
JimC
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Default 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

Greetings from one of the many long-time lurkers. Could I please impose
upon the group to help me with a problem?



My daughter has a 1992 Honda Accord sedan, 145K miles, 5sp, which within the
last month or so has been having some odd problems starting.



At random times, and with no apparent pattern, the starter sometimes doesn't
crank. All the warning lights on the dash remain lit, all the other systems
in the car seem to have full power, and all other indicators appear normal,
but the starter just won't crank. But then if you release the key back to
the "Run" position, and then immediately turn it again to the "Start"
position, then the starter will crank and the car will start right up, no
problem. It doesn't do this every time - maybe once out of every eight to
ten times when starting the car - and there's no pattern that I've yet been
able to isolate as to when it will do this. Every other time the car starts
fine.



The battery is new, the ignition switch has been replaced, the clutch
disconnect switch checks out okay, and as far as I can determine the main
relay seems to be functioning properly (at least it passes all the tests as
described on Tegger's website, and I always get the three "distinctive
clicks". Plus I know that it has been replaced at least once on this car,
about six years ago.)



So far the car has never failed to eventually start, but I worry that it
might someday leave her stranded. My next thought was to try and search for
a loose ground somewhere (but where to start?), or pull the starter and tear
into that, but I would welcome any other ideas the group may have. I have
searched the archives but have not found anything very useful.



(I should add that I had just recently performed a major timing belt service
not long before the car started doing this, but I'm hard pressed to find any
cause-and-effect relationship, because I did not touch anything on the
electrical or ignition systems.)



Thanks in advance,

JimC in Redlands




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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 02:28 am
Joe LaVigne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

JimC wrote:

> The battery is new, the ignition switch has been replaced, the clutch
> disconnect switch checks out okay, and as far as I can determine the main
> relay seems to be functioning properly (at least it passes all the tests
> as described on Tegger's website, and I always get the three "distinctive
> clicks". Plus I know that it has been replaced at least once on this car,
> about six years ago.)


Solenoid.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 05:26 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

Joe LaVigne <jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com> wrote in
news:f1p8qe$dk6$1@aioe.org:

> JimC wrote:
>
>> The battery is new, the ignition switch has been replaced, the clutch
>> disconnect switch checks out okay, and as far as I can determine the
>> main relay seems to be functioning properly (at least it passes all
>> the tests as described on Tegger's website, and I always get the
>> three "distinctive clicks". Plus I know that it has been replaced at
>> least once on this car, about six years ago.)

>
> Solenoid.
>



Or poor stater cable connections.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 09:22 am
motsco_
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

JimC wrote:
> Greetings from one of the many long-time lurkers. Could I please impose
> upon the group to help me with a problem?
>
>
>
> My daughter has a 1992 Honda Accord sedan, 145K miles, 5sp, which within the
> last month or so has been having some odd problems starting.
>
>
>
> At random times, and with no apparent pattern, the starter sometimes doesn't
> crank. All the warning lights on the dash remain lit, all the other systems
> in the car seem to have full power, and all other indicators appear normal,
> but the starter just won't crank. But then if you release the key back to
> the "Run" position, and then immediately turn it again to the "Start"
> position, then the starter will crank and the car will start right up, no
> problem. It doesn't do this every time - maybe once out of every eight to
> ten times when starting the car - and there's no pattern that I've yet been
> able to isolate as to when it will do this. Every other time the car starts
> fine.
>
>
>
> The battery is new, the ignition switch has been replaced, the clutch
> disconnect switch checks out okay, and as far as I can determine the main
> relay seems to be functioning properly (at least it passes all the tests as
> described on Tegger's website, and I always get the three "distinctive
> clicks". Plus I know that it has been replaced at least once on this car,
> about six years ago.)
>
>
>
> So far the car has never failed to eventually start, but I worry that it
> might someday leave her stranded. My next thought was to try and search for
> a loose ground somewhere (but where to start?), or pull the starter and tear
> into that, but I would welcome any other ideas the group may have. I have
> searched the archives but have not found anything very useful.
>
>
>
> (I should add that I had just recently performed a major timing belt service
> not long before the car started doing this, but I'm hard pressed to find any
> cause-and-effect relationship, because I did not touch anything on the
> electrical or ignition systems.)
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> JimC in Redlands

----------------------------------

Moe and Larry suggested 'solenoid' and 'starter cables'. Curly says it
may just be the ignition switch is worn out. The Main Relay has
absolutely nothing to do with starter engagement. I know a guy who
rebuilt his a couple times on a '93.
I doubt it's actually the starter, but here's a good thread with some
links regarding the CR-V starter, which is basically identical to yours:
http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=20252&

'Curly'
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 11:21 pm
JimC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

Okay...the solenoid....and starter cable connections. I should have known
to check these -- my pappy taught me better than that.

Thanks to all who responded. It'll probably be the weekend before I have a
chance to look at it. I'll let you know if I find anything.

JimC


"motsco_" <motsco_@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13411lvitpe1a65@corp.supernews.com...
> JimC wrote:
>> Greetings from one of the many long-time lurkers. Could I please impose
>> upon the group to help me with a problem?
>>
>>
>>
>> My daughter has a 1992 Honda Accord sedan, 145K miles, 5sp, which within
>> the last month or so has been having some odd problems starting.
>>
>>
>>
>> At random times, and with no apparent pattern, the starter sometimes
>> doesn't crank. All the warning lights on the dash remain lit, all the
>> other systems in the car seem to have full power, and all other
>> indicators appear normal, but the starter just won't crank. But then if
>> you release the key back to the "Run" position, and then immediately turn
>> it again to the "Start" position, then the starter will crank and the car
>> will start right up, no problem. It doesn't do this every time - maybe
>> once out of every eight to ten times when starting the car - and there's
>> no pattern that I've yet been able to isolate as to when it will do this.
>> Every other time the car starts fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> The battery is new, the ignition switch has been replaced, the clutch
>> disconnect switch checks out okay, and as far as I can determine the main
>> relay seems to be functioning properly (at least it passes all the tests
>> as described on Tegger's website, and I always get the three "distinctive
>> clicks". Plus I know that it has been replaced at least once on this
>> car, about six years ago.)
>>
>>
>>
>> So far the car has never failed to eventually start, but I worry that it
>> might someday leave her stranded. My next thought was to try and search
>> for a loose ground somewhere (but where to start?), or pull the starter
>> and tear into that, but I would welcome any other ideas the group may
>> have. I have searched the archives but have not found anything very
>> useful.
>>
>>
>>
>> (I should add that I had just recently performed a major timing belt
>> service not long before the car started doing this, but I'm hard pressed
>> to find any cause-and-effect relationship, because I did not touch
>> anything on the electrical or ignition systems.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> JimC in Redlands

> ----------------------------------
>
> Moe and Larry suggested 'solenoid' and 'starter cables'. Curly says it may
> just be the ignition switch is worn out. The Main Relay has absolutely
> nothing to do with starter engagement. I know a guy who rebuilt his a
> couple times on a '93.
> I doubt it's actually the starter, but here's a good thread with some
> links regarding the CR-V starter, which is basically identical to yours:
> http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=20252&
>
> 'Curly'



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09 May 2007, 12:28 am
Patrick
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

In news:Z_b0i.8263$HR1.3032@trnddc01,
JimC <res8rwal@verizon.net> wrote:

> Okay...the solenoid....and starter cable connections. I should have
> known to check these -- my pappy taught me better than that.


There's a small copper contact plate in the solenoid/starter assembly that
gets corroded after some time, and will produce exactly the symptoms you
describe -- intermittent cranking ability. I suffered through the problem
last winter thinking the clutch engage switch was faulty.

I took it to a mechanic who quickly remedied the problem by replacing the
copper contact plate in the starter/solenoid assembly and have had no
problems since.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09 May 2007, 12:11 pm
motsco_
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

Patrick wrote:
> In news:Z_b0i.8263$HR1.3032@trnddc01,
> JimC <res8rwal@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Okay...the solenoid....and starter cable connections. I should have
>> known to check these -- my pappy taught me better than that.

>
> There's a small copper contact plate in the solenoid/starter assembly that
> gets corroded after some time, and will produce exactly the symptoms you
> describe -- intermittent cranking ability.


-------------------------------

His symptoms aren't really the same. When the copper contact inside the
solenoid goes bad, you get the loud 'click' all the time, but sometimes
the starter just doesn't go. When the ignition switch isn't firing the
solenoid at all, there's no 'click'. He didn't say that it was clicking
but not spinning the starter.
The third scenario is when the armature / brushes aren't connecting so
there's no click because the solenoid has no path to ground, but that
one can be dismissed because he said that just torqueing on the key a
few times made the starter fire up. If it was the brushes / armature, he
would have needed to tap on the starter or slam a door to make the
connection work better. Take a look at the thread (and its links) I
provided. The schematic really made sense to me once I saw this problem
in real life. There's two windings in the solenoid, one to suck it in
and another to HOLD it in. Cool.

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=20252&

'Curly'
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11 May 2007, 12:30 am
JimC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank


"motsco_" <motsco_@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:13440063l7rdc47@corp.supernews.com...
> Patrick wrote:
>> In news:Z_b0i.8263$HR1.3032@trnddc01,
>> JimC <res8rwal@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Okay...the solenoid....and starter cable connections. I should have
>>> known to check these -- my pappy taught me better than that.

>>
>> There's a small copper contact plate in the solenoid/starter assembly
>> that
>> gets corroded after some time, and will produce exactly the symptoms you
>> describe -- intermittent cranking ability.

>
> -------------------------------
>
> His symptoms aren't really the same. When the copper contact inside the
> solenoid goes bad, you get the loud 'click' all the time, but sometimes
> the starter just doesn't go. When the ignition switch isn't firing the
> solenoid at all, there's no 'click'. He didn't say that it was clicking
> but not spinning the starter.
> The third scenario is when the armature / brushes aren't connecting so
> there's no click because the solenoid has no path to ground, but that one
> can be dismissed because he said that just torqueing on the key a few
> times made the starter fire up. If it was the brushes / armature, he would
> have needed to tap on the starter or slam a door to make the connection
> work better. Take a look at the thread (and its links) I provided. The
> schematic really made sense to me once I saw this problem in real life.
> There's two windings in the solenoid, one to suck it in and another to
> HOLD it in. Cool.
>
> http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=20252&
>
> 'Curly'



Gentlemen,

Thank you all again for the very helpful advice. Unfortunately, I don't
have the car here with me this week (lovely and maddening daughter is away
for the week) so I can't verify the "loudness" of any clicks, but I will
definitely check on everything suggested here next time she has the car
home, and report back with the results.

I do appreciate all your help.

JimC


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11 May 2007, 01:25 pm
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 92 Honda Accord starting problem -- sometimes won't crank

"JimC" <res8rwal@verizon.net> wrote in
news:xbT0i.10535$HR1.10430@trnddc01:

>
> "motsco_" <motsco_@interbaun.com> wrote in message
> news:13440063l7rdc47@corp.supernews.com...
>> Patrick wrote:
>>> In news:Z_b0i.8263$HR1.3032@trnddc01,
>>> JimC <res8rwal@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay...the solenoid....and starter cable connections. I should
>>>> have known to check these -- my pappy taught me better than that.
>>>
>>> There's a small copper contact plate in the solenoid/starter
>>> assembly that
>>> gets corroded after some time, and will produce exactly the symptoms
>>> you describe -- intermittent cranking ability.

>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> His symptoms aren't really the same. When the copper contact inside
>> the solenoid goes bad, you get the loud 'click' all the time, but
>> sometimes the starter just doesn't go. When the ignition switch isn't
>> firing the solenoid at all, there's no 'click'. He didn't say that it
>> was clicking but not spinning the starter.
>> The third scenario is when the armature / brushes aren't connecting
>> so there's no click because the solenoid has no path to ground, but
>> that one can be dismissed because he said that just torqueing on the
>> key a few times made the starter fire up. If it was the brushes /
>> armature, he would have needed to tap on the starter or slam a door
>> to make the connection work better. Take a look at the thread (and
>> its links) I provided. The schematic really made sense to me once I
>> saw this problem in real life. There's two windings in the solenoid,
>> one to suck it in and another to HOLD it in. Cool.
>>
>> http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=20252&
>>
>> 'Curly'

>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> Thank you all again for the very helpful advice. Unfortunately, I
> don't have the car here with me this week (lovely and maddening
> daughter is away for the week) so I can't verify the "loudness" of any
> clicks, but I will definitely check on everything suggested here next
> time she has the car home, and report back with the results.
>
> I do appreciate all your help.
>
> JimC
>
>
>

I don't know if the Accord has the same starter as my Integra,but;


I bought a contact kit for the solenoid on my Integra's Denso starter
at www.nationsautoelectric.com,it cost $30 including shipping,and I am
satisfied with the service.

http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/Nippondenso.html

has pictures of the eroded contacts and instructions on how to replace
them.

Some Honda starters have replaceable solenoids.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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