Honda Car Forum

Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007

Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.

..the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The
commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.

Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
Camry.

At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
disproportionately on our new stuff."

But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
through March over a year earlier.

Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
the market leader in South America.

Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
from lack of awareness and appreciation.

"Nomen Nescio" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:fdeb700fc63b511aacd25b0792eaf1de@dizum.com...
> Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>
> Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
> that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
> said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
> and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
> face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
> those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
> result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>
> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The
> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>
The test I read said the V6 was coarse and thrashy. Suspect the I4 is not
in the same league as Honda's I4.

> Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
> the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
> said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
> features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
> Camry.
>
> At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
> abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
> months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
> Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
> weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
> disproportionately on our new stuff."
>
See very few of them on the road -- the real eye opener is the Hyundai
Sonata which is becoming very popular.

> But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
> ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
> through March over a year earlier.
>
> Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
> Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
> problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
> took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
> was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
> the market leader in South America.
>
> Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
> the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
> http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
> declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
> he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
> from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>

"tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4U9_h.101549$2Q1.69816@newsfe16.lga...


>> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
>> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
>> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
>> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The
>> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
>> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>>
> The test I read said the V6 was coarse and thrashy. Suspect the I4 is not
> in the same league as Honda's I4.

Consumer Repors noted that the Fusion I4 was noisy. They did not comment on
the V-6 engine (but they did test it). I have a V-6 Fusion and don't find
the engine harsh. It is much smoother and quieter than the V-6 in my
Frontier or the I4 in my SO's RAV4. In the consumer comments section of the
CR Website, the four people who made an entry all gave the Fusion 5 stars
(top rating). The Accord only had 9 people commenting and they all gave the
Accord five stars as well. Interestingly the Camry had many more people
posting comments (147). I'd say the average Camry rating was 4 or maybe a
little less. Plenty of 5 star ratings, but a number of 1, 2, and 3 star
ratings as well. I also though it was interesting that 147 people commented
on the Camry, while only 9 commented on the Accord, and 4 on the Fusion. The
comments probably have no statistical meaning, but are interesting. I do
have to wonder if this isn't an indication of the CR/Toyota love affair...

Ed

On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
<Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

>Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>
>Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
>that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
>said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
>and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
>face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
>those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
>result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>
>.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
>Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
>print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
>on the Ford Fusion midsize sedan http://doiop.com/Fusion - The
>commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
>Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>
>Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
>the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
>said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
>features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
>Camry.
>
>At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
>abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
>months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
>Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
>weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
>disproportionately on our new stuff."
>
>But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
>ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
>through March over a year earlier.
>
>Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
>Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
>problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
>took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
>was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
>the market leader in South America.
>
>Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
>the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
>http://doiop.com/Ford_500 which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
>declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
>he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
>from lack of awareness and appreciation.


I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
most of the Chevy's.

By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.

"Ashton Crusher" <demi@moore.net> wrote in message
news:79qi33p6tded4usskkrl6t1f0ooak8ub4l@4ax.com...
<...>

> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
> most of the Chevy's.

Actually, I think the Michigan 3 are doing a great job with new designs. It
is a matter of taste.

> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.

Ashton Crusher wrote:

> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
> most of the Chevy's.
>
> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.

Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never,
absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to
immediately sell it for a profit somehow.

Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable
Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception
due to the price/performance combination until recently.

I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it
spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty
repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration.
His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several
Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to
stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's.

Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a
neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at
37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since.

Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say
about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down
so often.

Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they
have no competition in that area.

Pat

Jeff wrote:

> Actually, I think the Michigan 3 are doing a great job with new designs.
> It is a matter of taste.

Looks are a matter of taste and opinion, but quality and reliability can
easily be measured and assessed.

Pat

"pws" <pwshelton@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4639d4f4$0$18855$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's. By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a
>> basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.
>
> Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never, absolutely
> never, buy another American car unless the intention is to immediately
> sell it for a profit somehow.
>
> Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable
> Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception due
> to the price/performance combination until recently.
>
> I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it spending
> one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty repairs, before
> he finally sold it in frustration.
> His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several
> Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to
> stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's.

Most people I know who have a Corvette never drive the car except on
weekends if it is not raining. Not really a daily driver, I guess.

>
> Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a
> neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at
> 37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since.
>
> Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say
> about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down so
> often.
>
> Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they
> have no competition in that area.
>
> Pat

On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:18:34 -0500, pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com>
wrote:

>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's.
>>
>> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.
>
>Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never,
>absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to
>immediately sell it for a profit somehow.
>
>Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable
>Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception
>due to the price/performance combination until recently.
>
>I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it
>spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty
>repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration.
>His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several
>Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to
>stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's.
>
>Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a
>neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at
>37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since.
>
>Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say
>about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down
>so often.
>
>Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they
>have no competition in that area.
>
>Pat
I was only bitching about the styling. I have not found the
mechanical quality to be a problem. We buy lots of domestics at work
and I really don't see them going in for repairs very often, just
regular prev maintenance. We've got a 95 Impala that was mine when it
was new and is now assigned to someone else. The only things that
ever went wrong with it in 12 years and 130,000 miles were two windows
came off the tracks during it's first year. And the cheap plastic
door panels need big washers now to hold them to the door. Gets 24
mpg on the highway with a big v-8.

I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!!
The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be
"modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are
failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should
hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas.
Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who
will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target .


On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
>
>
>
>
>
> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
> >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>
> >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
> >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
> >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
> >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
> >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
> >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
> >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>
> >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
> >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
> >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
> >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The
> >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
> >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>
> >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
> >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
> >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
> >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
> >Camry.
>
> >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
> >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
> >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
> >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
> >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
> >disproportionately on our new stuff."
>
> >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
> >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
> >through March over a year earlier.
>
> >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
> >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
> >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
> >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
> >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
> >the market leader in South America.
>
> >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
> >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
> >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
> >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
> >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
> >from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>
> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
> most of the Chevy's.
>
> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -