Honda Car Forum

I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
common engine among Fords, IIRC.

The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with it.

Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.

This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.

Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
(the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.

The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
<3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
the clacking.

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
> it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
Collapsed lifter?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
>
well, it wouldn't clack if there wasn't something wrong! either the cam
is damaged or a lifter is leaking badly. you need to open up and
investigate. magic 8-ball says: "you will visit a junk yard next weekend".

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:11:08 -0500, Ray O wrote:

>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
> Collapsed lifter?


Um, that would be my guess, if I knew what it meant...for sure...I think...

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:11:08 -0500, Ray O wrote:

>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
> Collapsed lifter?


From a 'forum':

Possibly a sticky or collapsed lifter. A bent pushrod (or one that's a
little short) also comes to mind as a possibility. A worn rocker or
rocker fulcrum will also cause problems like this.

If the motor is sitting there running like a watch other than the
light ticking, I'd put some Rislone in it to help loosen up any
deposits and drive it around a little....like slowly around the block.
Then swap in some fresh oil (5W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic seems to clean up
old deposits very well for me) and drive it briskly (don't beat the
snot out of it at valve float but don't drive it like grandma does
either) and drive it often as possible. Swap the oil out at short
intervals (500-1000 miles) for a few thousand miles and see if that
quiets things down. It'll either get better with time (a sticky lifter)
or stay the same (or get worse) which could be a slightly collapsed
lifter or bent pushrod.

If it doesn't improve with good oil and drive time then it may have to
come apart to be inspected. If it gets any worse that a light tapping
and/or if the vaccum gauge starts dancing with the tick or if you start
getting a characteristic 'fhtup' out of one end or the other them stop
the motor and pull it down for inspection.

_______________________________


This doesn't sound like fun. I use Marvel Mystery Oil all the time (since
I got it) so I don't expect it's sludge. Don't tell me my $600 bargain
just STB...

On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:18:56 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>>
>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
>>
> well, it wouldn't clack if there wasn't something wrong! either the cam
> is damaged or a lifter is leaking badly. you need to open up and
> investigate. magic 8-ball says: "you will visit a junk yard next
> weekend".


LOL! I looked around on the Web, and I guess the lifters collapsing are
fairy common, and they're $11 each at AutoZone.

Now, I just need to figure out how to replace them!


And, it's a 2.2L, not 2.0. I think it was used in the Escort, also.

On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m(B
$B%/(B" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:

> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
>

I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged problem
with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve hydraulics were too
small. It started making the noise at startup at about 30k miles.
Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for the remaining 10 years
that I owned it.

IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that engine
absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it would use a
quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with any other brand of
oil.

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:46:23 +0000, E Meyer wrote:

>
>
>
> On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku
> ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ* ク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>>
>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
>>
>>
> I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged
> problem with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve
> hydraulics were too small. It started making the noise at startup at
> about 30k miles. Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for the
> remaining 10 years that I owned it.
>
> IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that engine
> absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it would use a
> quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with any other brand
> of oil.


I wonder if flushing and refilling with lighter weight oil will prevent me
from having to rip out the Lash Adjusters...

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:27:53 +0000, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:

> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
> it.


Interesting:

There is a Horrible ticking from under may valve cover. What is it? How can i fix it?

This is your Hydraulic Lash Adjusters (HLAs) starving of oil. HLAs are essentially
maintenance free and as soon as they start to tick they are supposed to be
replaced. Unfortunately Mazda/Ford wants an arm and a leg for them. There
is a way to squeeze some life out of them.

1. Pour some ATX oil into your engine. DO NOT USE A LOT, 300ML WILL BE SUFFICIENT.
Auto transmission oil/fluid is VERY high in detergents so it will remove
most of the gunk from the HLAs and anything else that oil has contact
with. Drive on this oil mixture for a day or two, no more. 2. During an
oil change, get yourself some engine flush(readily available at any Auto
parts retailer) follow instruction on the can/bottle 3. Put new oil in.

If this procedure did not fix your HLA tick (not to be confused with injector tick which
is normal) you ether will need to clean HLAs physically or replace them.

This procedure is not recommended for engines which have some oil
consumption, as this will clean out all the gunk in piston rings as well,
and you might end up using more oil and smoke badly too

__________________________________________________ __________________

I was approaching an oil change anyway. I wonder if adding more MMO might
have a similar effect...

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:46:23 +0000, E Meyer wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 4/2/07 9:27 PM, in article JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03, "Hachiroku
>> ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ* ク" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>>
>>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>>
>>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>>
>>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>>
>>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>>> with the clacking.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I used to have a '90 Mazda B2200 pickup. There was an acknowledged
>> problem with the engine in those that the oil ports to the valve
>> hydraulics were too small. It started making the noise at startup at
>> about 30k miles. Switching it to Mobil 1 5w-30 fixed the problem for the
>> remaining 10 years that I owned it.
>>
>> IIRC thicker oils made the problem worse, and for some reason, that engine
>> absolutely hated Castrol synthetic - mileage dropped and it would use a
>> quart/1000 miles with Castrol, but never used a drop with any other brand
>> of oil.
>
>
> I wonder if flushing and refilling with lighter weight oil will prevent me
> from having to rip out the Lash Adjusters...
>
try it. i have no idea what that mystery oil stuff is, but there's a
reason motor manufacturers say not to use additives like that...