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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 03:54 pm
Dan Wenz
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Default Low Tire Pressure Warning


On my 2011 Fit, bought in March, 2011. The Honda Dealer's response after
I emailed the readings I received from all 4 mounted tires and the
spare. The mounted tires were all 6 psi low + -1 psi. The spare was 15
psi below the 60 psi per Honda"s manual. The dealer's response:

" Dan, the air pressure must be checked seasonally air in the tires
expand in summer and contract in winter you'll want to ck them again
when it gets hot outside happy holidays,Glenn"

I've owned cars from my new 1954 Ford to the new Fit, in climates in the
USA from New Jersey to Texas , Massachusetts, and, currently Maryland.
Never have I seen such a "loss" from March to the end of November here
in NE Maryland. When I received the car, the inside of the windshield
was covered with a hard-to-remove deposit, obviously not touched by the
dealer prior to my pickup. I suspect little if any of the "dealer
inspection" was done based on the above. The spare was 25% low, which
the gas laws I learned early in my studies as a chemistry major WAY back
in time don't support for the relatively small temperature difference
from a typical early day in March to late November! A further request to
the dealer to explain the spare 15 pound loss has gone unanswered to
date! The dealer won't see me again :-)

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 06:38 pm
Erik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning

In article <jdlbua$1t9$6@dont-email.me>, Dan Wenz <djwenz@verizon.net>
wrote:

> On my 2011 Fit, bought in March, 2011. The Honda Dealer's response after
> I emailed the readings I received from all 4 mounted tires and the
> spare. The mounted tires were all 6 psi low + -1 psi. The spare was 15
> psi below the 60 psi per Honda"s manual. The dealer's response:
>
> " Dan, the air pressure must be checked seasonally air in the tires
> expand in summer and contract in winter you'll want to ck them again
> when it gets hot outside happy holidays,Glenn"
>
> I've owned cars from my new 1954 Ford to the new Fit, in climates in the
> USA from New Jersey to Texas , Massachusetts, and, currently Maryland.
> Never have I seen such a "loss" from March to the end of November here
> in NE Maryland. When I received the car, the inside of the windshield
> was covered with a hard-to-remove deposit, obviously not touched by the
> dealer prior to my pickup. I suspect little if any of the "dealer
> inspection" was done based on the above. The spare was 25% low, which
> the gas laws I learned early in my studies as a chemistry major WAY back
> in time don't support for the relatively small temperature difference
> from a typical early day in March to late November! A further request to
> the dealer to explain the spare 15 pound loss has gone unanswered to
> date! The dealer won't see me again :-)


Rubber molecules are large in comparison to those of air and don't fit
together all that well... allowing air to pass through continuously.
It's much more noticeable with small volume higher pressure tires than
large volume low pressure... and yes, temperature gets factored in as
well. (60 PSI compact spares really loose air quick... and ever notice
how much those skinny little super high pressure bicycle tires lose in
an hour or two?)

Yes, the dealer probably should have checked & topped off the tires
before delivery, but even so, you just have to check and be prepared to
add a couple of pounds every few of months. Thats just life, and has
nothing to do with any specific vehicle or tire manufacture.

Remember, check and adjust tire pressures cold; like in the early
morning (before the sun has warmed any tires) or later in the evening,
but in any case after the car has sit for a few hours. Use the pressures
listed on the door jam sticker, not the ones molded in the sidewalls.

The glass spooge was/is plastic solvents 'outgassing' and condensing...
another fact of life for new cars. It'll diminish in due time.

Erik
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 07:01 pm
Dan Wenz
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning

On 12/30/2011 7:38 PM, Erik wrote:
> Rubber molecules are large in comparison to those of air and don't fit
> together all that well... allowing air to pass through continuously.
> It's much more noticeable with small volume higher pressure tires than
> large volume low pressure... and yes, temperature gets factored in as
> well. (60 PSI compact spares really loose air quick... and ever notice
> how much those skinny little super high pressure bicycle tires lose in
> an hour or two?)
>
> Yes, the dealer probably should have checked& topped off the tires
> before delivery, but even so, you just have to check and be prepared to
> add a couple of pounds every few of months. Thats just life, and has
> nothing to do with any specific vehicle or tire manufacture.
>
> Remember, check and adjust tire pressures cold; like in the early
> morning (before the sun has warmed any tires) or later in the evening,
> but in any case after the car has sit for a few hours. Use the pressures
> listed on the door jam sticker, not the ones molded in the sidewalls.
>
> The glass spooge was/is plastic solvents 'outgassing' and condensing...
> another fact of life for new cars. It'll diminish in due time.
>


Thanks. It'll be interesting to check the spare's pressure vs,
temperature as the seasons progress. I'll begin tomorrow and will record
time of day and pressure, still realizing that the previous day's
temperature variations may have some influence over the next day's. I'll
check weekly, see what develops. Not sure what I'll do about the 4 other
tires yet. The tires on the Fit are, I believe, the smallest of any
other car I've owned over the last 55+ years. The pressures I've always
used have been the one's on the door jamb sticker.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 10:41 pm
Erik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning

In article <jdlmtn$1bl$1@dont-email.me>, Dan Wenz <djwenz@verizon.net>
wrote:

> On 12/30/2011 7:38 PM, Erik wrote:
> > Rubber molecules are large in comparison to those of air and don't fit
> > together all that well... allowing air to pass through continuously.
> > It's much more noticeable with small volume higher pressure tires than
> > large volume low pressure... and yes, temperature gets factored in as
> > well. (60 PSI compact spares really loose air quick... and ever notice
> > how much those skinny little super high pressure bicycle tires lose in
> > an hour or two?)
> >
> > Yes, the dealer probably should have checked& topped off the tires
> > before delivery, but even so, you just have to check and be prepared to
> > add a couple of pounds every few of months. Thats just life, and has
> > nothing to do with any specific vehicle or tire manufacture.
> >
> > Remember, check and adjust tire pressures cold; like in the early
> > morning (before the sun has warmed any tires) or later in the evening,
> > but in any case after the car has sit for a few hours. Use the pressures
> > listed on the door jam sticker, not the ones molded in the sidewalls.
> >
> > The glass spooge was/is plastic solvents 'outgassing' and condensing...
> > another fact of life for new cars. It'll diminish in due time.
> >

>
> Thanks. It'll be interesting to check the spare's pressure vs,
> temperature as the seasons progress. I'll begin tomorrow and will record
> time of day and pressure, still realizing that the previous day's
> temperature variations may have some influence over the next day's. I'll
> check weekly, see what develops. Not sure what I'll do about the 4 other
> tires yet. The tires on the Fit are, I believe, the smallest of any
> other car I've owned over the last 55+ years. The pressures I've always
> used have been the one's on the door jamb sticker.


If your going to monitor your spare that close, I think it would more
beneficial to record the actual tire temperature rather than time of
day. Even then, the act of pressure checking releases some air.

BTW, I have a (08) Fit as well. For my needs it's great! Has WAY more
room in it than it looks... the other day I had three, brand new still
in the box, Kohler full size oval bowl toilets in there with tons of
room to spare. The Fit does ride a little firmer than I care for... I
can drive over a dime and tell you it's mint mark.

Erik
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 31 Dec 2011, 10:04 am
Unquestionably Confused
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning

On 12/30/2011 6:38 PM, Erik wrote:
> In article<jdlbua$1t9$6@dont-email.me>, Dan Wenz<djwenz@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On my 2011 Fit, bought in March, 2011. The Honda Dealer's response after
>> I emailed the readings I received from all 4 mounted tires and the
>> spare. The mounted tires were all 6 psi low + -1 psi. The spare was 15
>> psi below the 60 psi per Honda"s manual. The dealer's response:


[snip]


> The glass spooge was/is plastic solvents 'outgassing' and condensing...
> another fact of life for new cars. It'll diminish in due time.



Erik... I believe that Dan know what is ON the glass, he would like to
know WHY? He bought a new car and in the price of that car final dealer
inspection and prep is included; just like tires are included.

There should not have been any "spooge" on the glass when he took
delivery. If it appeared two weeks later, after sitting all day in the
sun at his employer's parking lot, your response would be relevant.

Had he found a pile of dog crap in the back seat upon delivery would you
also have explained "Oh that's just dog shit! That'll happen when you
leave a dog in a car."?






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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 31 Dec 2011, 01:21 pm
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning

Erik <spam@this.com> wrote in
news:spam-2133C8.20410430122011@news.dslextreme.com:

> In article <jdlmtn$1bl$1@dont-email.me>, Dan Wenz <djwenz@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/30/2011 7:38 PM, Erik wrote:
>> > Rubber molecules are large in comparison to those of air and don't
>> > fit together all that well... allowing air to pass through
>> > continuously. It's much more noticeable with small volume higher
>> > pressure tires than large volume low pressure... and yes,
>> > temperature gets factored in as well. (60 PSI compact spares really
>> > loose air quick... and ever notice how much those skinny little
>> > super high pressure bicycle tires lose in an hour or two?)
>> >
>> > Yes, the dealer probably should have checked& topped off the tires
>> > before delivery, but even so, you just have to check and be
>> > prepared to add a couple of pounds every few of months. Thats just
>> > life, and has nothing to do with any specific vehicle or tire
>> > manufacture.
>> >
>> > Remember, check and adjust tire pressures cold; like in the early
>> > morning (before the sun has warmed any tires) or later in the
>> > evening, but in any case after the car has sit for a few hours. Use
>> > the pressures listed on the door jam sticker, not the ones molded
>> > in the sidewalls.
>> >
>> > The glass spooge was/is plastic solvents 'outgassing' and
>> > condensing... another fact of life for new cars. It'll diminish in
>> > due time.
>> >

>>
>> Thanks. It'll be interesting to check the spare's pressure vs,
>> temperature as the seasons progress. I'll begin tomorrow and will
>> record time of day and pressure, still realizing that the previous
>> day's temperature variations may have some influence over the next
>> day's. I'll check weekly, see what develops. Not sure what I'll do
>> about the 4 other tires yet. The tires on the Fit are, I believe,
>> the smallest of any other car I've owned over the last 55+ years. The
>> pressures I've always used have been the one's on the door jamb
>> sticker.

>
> If your going to monitor your spare that close, I think it would more
> beneficial to record the actual tire temperature rather than time of
> day. Even then, the act of pressure checking releases some air.
>
> BTW, I have a (08) Fit as well. For my needs it's great! Has WAY more
> room in it than it looks... the other day I had three, brand new still
> in the box, Kohler full size oval bowl toilets in there with tons of
> room to spare. The Fit does ride a little firmer than I care for... I
> can drive over a dime and tell you it's mint mark.


Hatchbacks are very useful!
>
> Erik
>


I carry a portable 12V air compressor in my car,they are fairly inexpensive
at PepBoys if you catch when they are on sale.
MasterFlow MF-1040,150 PSI,100 CFM. cost around $21 USD.(on sale)

Harbor Freight has a similar compressor.
IMO,the 1/3HP motor on the MF-1040 is better,it's pretty quiet,unlike many
portable compressors.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 31 Dec 2011, 01:28 pm
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning

Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote in
news:4eff3283$0$30122$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews .com:

> On 12/30/2011 6:38 PM, Erik wrote:
>> In article<jdlbua$1t9$6@dont-email.me>, Dan Wenz<djwenz@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On my 2011 Fit, bought in March, 2011. The Honda Dealer's response
>>> after I emailed the readings I received from all 4 mounted tires and
>>> the spare. The mounted tires were all 6 psi low + -1 psi. The spare
>>> was 15 psi below the 60 psi per Honda"s manual. The dealer's
>>> response:

>
> [snip]
>
>
>> The glass spooge was/is plastic solvents 'outgassing' and
>> condensing... another fact of life for new cars. It'll diminish in
>> due time.

>
>
> Erik... I believe that Dan know what is ON the glass, he would like to
> know WHY? He bought a new car and in the price of that car final
> dealer inspection and prep is included; just like tires are included.
>
> There should not have been any "spooge" on the glass when he took
> delivery. If it appeared two weeks later, after sitting all day in
> the sun at his employer's parking lot, your response would be
> relevant.
>
> Had he found a pile of dog crap in the back seat upon delivery would
> you also have explained "Oh that's just dog shit! That'll happen when
> you leave a dog in a car."?
>




new cars can outgass a lot in a short time,perhaps the car WAS properly
dealer-prepped and then left on the lot for a day or two.

I don't imagine a dealer's shop guys check tire pressures,especially on the
spare. Unless they look low,which means they are way off.

"dealer prep" is just another add-on fee to make some more money on a sale.
it doesn't mean they actually prep the car other than take out the paper
seat covers and plastic film off the outside,and wash the car.
It's been that way for a long time.
Now,on Mercedes,BMWs,and other high-end cars,yeah,I'd expect that sort of
service from the dealer.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jan 2012, 11:16 am
MLD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning


"Dan Wenz" <djwenz@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jdlbua$1t9$6@dont-email.me...
>
> On my 2011 Fit, bought in March, 2011. The Honda Dealer's response after
> I emailed the readings I received from all 4 mounted tires and the
> spare. The mounted tires were all 6 psi low + -1 psi. The spare was 15
> psi below the 60 psi per Honda"s manual. The dealer's response:
>
> " Dan, the air pressure must be checked seasonally air in the tires
> expand in summer and contract in winter you'll want to ck them again
> when it gets hot outside happy holidays,Glenn"
>
> I've owned cars from my new 1954 Ford to the new Fit, in climates in the
> USA from New Jersey to Texas , Massachusetts, and, currently Maryland.
> Never have I seen such a "loss" from March to the end of November here
> in NE Maryland. When I received the car, the inside of the windshield
> was covered with a hard-to-remove deposit, obviously not touched by the
> dealer prior to my pickup. I suspect little if any of the "dealer
> inspection" was done based on the above. The spare was 25% low, which
> the gas laws I learned early in my studies as a chemistry major WAY back
> in time don't support for the relatively small temperature difference
> from a typical early day in March to late November! A further request to
> the dealer to explain the spare 15 pound loss has gone unanswered to
> date! The dealer won't see me again :-)


To follow up on the gas law --In this situation it boils down to PT=PT.
Start out with a warm day, say 70F (530R) and then remeasure the tire
pressure on a cold day, say 10F (470R). You would expect to see a pressure
drop of approximately 11% or a bit more than 3 psi, assuming that you
started out with 30 psi. Some service shops/Dealers think that most people
are stupid and can be talked into anything.
MLD

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03 Jan 2012, 06:44 am
C. E. White
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning


"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9FCC9375D1175jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.4 4...
> Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote in


> "dealer prep" is just another add-on fee to make some more money on a
> sale.
> it doesn't mean they actually prep the car other than take out the paper
> seat covers and plastic film off the outside,and wash the car.
> It's been that way for a long time.
> Now,on Mercedes,BMWs,and other high-end cars,yeah,I'd expect that sort of
> service from the dealer.


I know for a fact that the last two Ford I bought got "dealer prep," mostly
becasue they made me wait while they did it. The salesman actually let me go
watch them prep my F150 (including the stupid process of pumping down the
tires and then refilling them with "Nitrogen" - I told them no tot bother
with that, but they did it any how). On my Fiesta, I actually had to make
them stop prepping the car becaue I needed to leave the dealership to make
an appointment. The salesman practically had to beat the car wash guys away
from the car so I could get it and go (but they did fill up the tank with
gas and it was immaculately clean inside).

Ed


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05 Jan 2012, 05:59 pm
MG
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low Tire Pressure Warning



"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jdutbj$7id$1@dont-email.me...
>
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
> news:Xns9FCC9375D1175jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.4 4...
>> Unquestionably Confused <puzzled2@ameritech.net> wrote in

>
>> "dealer prep" is just another add-on fee to make some more money on a
>> sale.
>> it doesn't mean they actually prep the car other than take out the paper
>> seat covers and plastic film off the outside,and wash the car.
>> It's been that way for a long time.
>> Now,on Mercedes,BMWs,and other high-end cars,yeah,I'd expect that sort of
>> service from the dealer.

>
> I know for a fact that the last two Ford I bought got "dealer prep,"
> mostly becasue they made me wait while they did it. The salesman actually
> let me go watch them prep my F150 (including the stupid process of pumping
> down the tires and then refilling them with "Nitrogen" - I told them no
> tot bother with that, but they did it any how). On my Fiesta, I actually
> had to make them stop prepping the car becaue I needed to leave the
> dealership to make an appointment. The salesman practically had to beat
> the car wash guys away from the car so I could get it and go (but they did
> fill up the tank with gas and it was immaculately clean inside).
>
> Ed


That might be true, but somebody needs to explain to me why after spending x
thousands on a new product, extra money should be charged to put it in
presentable shape. It's a BS charge.

mg

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