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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 29 Dec 2011, 06:14 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...ner-taking-cas
e-to-small-claims-court/

> Heather Peters of Los Angeles is taking a novel approach to addressing her
> legal grievances against Honda for what she says are the fuel economy
> shortcomings of her Civic Hybrid. She says she is opting out of a proposed
> class-action lawsuit settlement and instead is suing the automaker for up to
> $10,000 in small claims court.
>
> A hearing on the matter is set for next Tuesday in Torrance, Calif.
>
> Ms. Peters, with a social media campaign and a Web site against the
> settlement, is urging other unhappy Civic Hybrid owners to follow her lead.
> More than 150,000 buyers of Civic Hybrids from 2003-9, the years subject to
> the class-action suits, are technically eligible to do the same, if they opt
> out of the proposed settlement by Feb. 11.
>
> The original suit was brought in 2007 by two Civic Hybrid owners. They said
> that instead of the 51 m.p.g. highway and 46 m.p.g. city fuel economy ratings
> certified by the Environmental Protection Agency at the time, they achieved
> only 31 m.p.g. in a mix of city and highway driving.


yep. But hey, Honda tuned the battery management to make those suckers
last the ENTIRE length of the federally mandated warranty--so, according
to the Honda beancounters, PROBLEM SOLVED! High fives! Who needs a
refill? Honey, we need more pretzels over here! Is our table ready yet?

> Ms. Peters, who says she is a former corporate defense lawyer, says
> attorneys would have received millions of dollars in fees under the
> agreement. She says she is owed redress for the │hybrid premium▓ she paid
> over and above the cost of a regular Civic ($6,000-$7,000), reduced resale
> value of her car and her increased costs of fuel.


Yeah, no shit.

For those who have not been paying close attention over the past 15
years, and who insist that "Honda has a great reputation and their cars
still sell for a premium," THIS is what Honda is doing to ruin their
reputation.

And they aren't even putting on the brakes. They're moving downhill
faster and faster.

You think Hyundai/Kia won't be in the courtroom every day, soaking this
up? You think they won't make hay while the sun shines?

I got burned when Honda (a) knowingly built a piece of shit
transmission, and then (b) yanked out their legendary goodwill program
from under my feet when my tranny bit the dust.

If I'm going to experience things like that in my car ownership, I might
as well buy from the cheapest source. But Honda wants to keep their
"premium" reputation?

Good ****ing luck.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 02:05 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

On 12/29/2011 04:14 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...ner-taking-cas
> e-to-small-claims-court/
>
>> Heather Peters of Los Angeles is taking a novel approach to addressing her
>> legal grievances against Honda for what she says are the fuel economy
>> shortcomings of her Civic Hybrid. She says she is opting out of a proposed
>> class-action lawsuit settlement and instead is suing the automaker for up to
>> $10,000 in small claims court.
>>
>> A hearing on the matter is set for next Tuesday in Torrance, Calif.
>>
>> Ms. Peters, with a social media campaign and a Web site against the
>> settlement, is urging other unhappy Civic Hybrid owners to follow her lead.
>> More than 150,000 buyers of Civic Hybrids from 2003-9, the years subject to
>> the class-action suits, are technically eligible to do the same, if they opt
>> out of the proposed settlement by Feb. 11.
>>
>> The original suit was brought in 2007 by two Civic Hybrid owners. They said
>> that instead of the 51 m.p.g. highway and 46 m.p.g. city fuel economy ratings
>> certified by the Environmental Protection Agency at the time, they achieved
>> only 31 m.p.g. in a mix of city and highway driving.

>
> yep. But hey, Honda tuned the battery management to make those suckers
> last the ENTIRE length of the federally mandated warranty--so, according
> to the Honda beancounters, PROBLEM SOLVED! High fives! Who needs a
> refill? Honey, we need more pretzels over here! Is our table ready yet?
>
>> Ms. Peters, who says she is a former corporate defense lawyer, says
>> attorneys would have received millions of dollars in fees under the
>> agreement. She says she is owed redress for the ´┐Żhybrid premium´┐Ż she paid
>> over and above the cost of a regular Civic ($6,000-$7,000), reduced resale
>> value of her car and her increased costs of fuel.

>
> Yeah, no shit.
>
> For those who have not been paying close attention over the past 15
> years, and who insist that "Honda has a great reputation and their cars
> still sell for a premium," THIS is what Honda is doing to ruin their
> reputation.
>
> And they aren't even putting on the brakes. They're moving downhill
> faster and faster.
>
> You think Hyundai/Kia won't be in the courtroom every day, soaking this
> up? You think they won't make hay while the sun shines?
>
> I got burned when Honda (a) knowingly built a piece of shit
> transmission, and then (b) yanked out their legendary goodwill program
> from under my feet when my tranny bit the dust.
>
> If I'm going to experience things like that in my car ownership, I might
> as well buy from the cheapest source. But Honda wants to keep their
> "premium" reputation?
>
> Good ****ing luck.


my 89 civic has averaged 36.25mpg so far this quarter, and 34.87 the
last year. mixed highway and city.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 03:07 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

In article <jdjrcu$3j6$1@speranza.aioe.org>, jim beam <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

> my 89 civic has averaged 36.25mpg so far this quarter, and 34.87 the
> last year. mixed highway and city.


And you didn't pay a $7000 premium ON TOP of an inflated new car price
to get that, either.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 07:18 am
News
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

On 12/29/2011 7:14 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...ner-taking-cas
> e-to-small-claims-court/
>
>> Heather Peters of Los Angeles is taking a novel approach to addressing her
>> legal grievances against Honda for what she says are the fuel economy
>> shortcomings of her Civic Hybrid. She says she is opting out of a proposed
>> class-action lawsuit settlement and instead is suing the automaker for up to
>> $10,000 in small claims court.
>>
>> A hearing on the matter is set for next Tuesday in Torrance, Calif.
>>
>> Ms. Peters, with a social media campaign and a Web site against the
>> settlement, is urging other unhappy Civic Hybrid owners to follow her lead.
>> More than 150,000 buyers of Civic Hybrids from 2003-9, the years subject to
>> the class-action suits, are technically eligible to do the same, if they opt
>> out of the proposed settlement by Feb. 11.
>>
>> The original suit was brought in 2007 by two Civic Hybrid owners. They said
>> that instead of the 51 m.p.g. highway and 46 m.p.g. city fuel economy ratings
>> certified by the Environmental Protection Agency at the time, they achieved
>> only 31 m.p.g. in a mix of city and highway driving.

>
> yep. But hey, Honda tuned the battery management to make those suckers
> last the ENTIRE length of the federally mandated warranty--so, according
> to the Honda beancounters, PROBLEM SOLVED! High fives! Who needs a
> refill? Honey, we need more pretzels over here! Is our table ready yet?
>
>> Ms. Peters, who says she is a former corporate defense lawyer, says
>> attorneys would have received millions of dollars in fees under the
>> agreement. She says she is owed redress for the │hybrid premium▓ she paid
>> over and above the cost of a regular Civic ($6,000-$7,000), reduced resale
>> value of her car and her increased costs of fuel.

>
> Yeah, no shit.
>
> For those who have not been paying close attention over the past 15
> years, and who insist that "Honda has a great reputation and their cars
> still sell for a premium," THIS is what Honda is doing to ruin their
> reputation.
>
> And they aren't even putting on the brakes. They're moving downhill
> faster and faster.
>
> You think Hyundai/Kia won't be in the courtroom every day, soaking this
> up? You think they won't make hay while the sun shines?
>
> I got burned when Honda (a) knowingly built a piece of shit
> transmission, and then (b) yanked out their legendary goodwill program
> from under my feet when my tranny bit the dust.
>
> If I'm going to experience things like that in my car ownership, I might
> as well buy from the cheapest source. But Honda wants to keep their
> "premium" reputation?
>
> Good ****ing luck.


Has anyone ever successfully sued over failure to meet EPA cycle MPG?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 08:31 am
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-DC623C.19143829122011@news.eternal-september.org:

> http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...owner-taking-c
> as e-to-small-claims-court/
>
>> Heather Peters of Los Angeles is taking a novel approach to
>> addressing her legal grievances against Honda for what she says are
>> the fuel economy shortcomings of her Civic Hybrid. She says she is
>> opting out of a proposed class-action lawsuit settlement and instead
>> is suing the automaker for up to $10,000 in small claims court.
>>
>> A hearing on the matter is set for next Tuesday in Torrance, Calif.
>>
>> Ms. Peters, with a social media campaign and a Web site against the
>> settlement, is urging other unhappy Civic Hybrid owners to follow her
>> lead. More than 150,000 buyers of Civic Hybrids from 2003-9, the
>> years subject to the class-action suits, are technically eligible to
>> do the same, if they opt out of the proposed settlement by Feb. 11.
>>
>> The original suit was brought in 2007 by two Civic Hybrid owners.
>> They said that instead of the 51 m.p.g. highway and 46 m.p.g. city
>> fuel economy ratings certified by the Environmental Protection Agency
>> at the time, they achieved only 31 m.p.g. in a mix of city and
>> highway driving.

>
> yep. But hey, Honda tuned the battery management to make those
> suckers last the ENTIRE length of the federally mandated warranty--so,
> according to the Honda beancounters, PROBLEM SOLVED! High fives! Who
> needs a refill? Honey, we need more pretzels over here! Is our table
> ready yet?
>
>> Ms. Peters, who says she is a former corporate defense lawyer, says
>> attorneys would have received millions of dollars in fees under the
>> agreement. She says she is owed redress for the │hybrid premium▓ she
>> paid over and above the cost of a regular Civic ($6,000-$7,000),
>> reduced resale value of her car and her increased costs of fuel.

>
> Yeah, no shit.
>
> For those who have not been paying close attention over the past 15
> years, and who insist that "Honda has a great reputation and their
> cars still sell for a premium," THIS is what Honda is doing to ruin
> their reputation.
>
> And they aren't even putting on the brakes. They're moving downhill
> faster and faster.
>
> You think Hyundai/Kia won't be in the courtroom every day, soaking
> this up? You think they won't make hay while the sun shines?
>
> I got burned when Honda (a) knowingly built a piece of shit
> transmission, and then (b) yanked out their legendary goodwill program
> from under my feet when my tranny bit the dust.
>
> If I'm going to experience things like that in my car ownership, I
> might as well buy from the cheapest source. But Honda wants to keep
> their "premium" reputation?
>
> Good ****ing luck.
>


no matter what,fuel economy or "mileage" depends largely on the driver's
style of driving. Terrain and traffic flow also have a major effect.if
you're stuck a lot in stop-n-go traffic,then mileage suffers.
those EPA numbers are comparison numbers,not guarantees.
YMMV holds true here! ;-)


if they are a "leadfoot" or "surge-n-slow" type of driver,their mileage
will suffer greatly. I've been with drivers who can't keep a constant
speed,they constantly speed up and slow down,very irritating. I rode with
one girl who went strictly by the owners manual's manual tranny shift
points,not shifting up or down until she hit the listed RPMs.
Egads,what a ride.
I had to demonstrate how to drive a manual properly for her,and assure her
that she was not damaging anything that way.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 09:04 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

In article <n_CdnSTm45GyJ2DTnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@megapath.net>,
News <News@Group.Post> wrote:

> Has anyone ever successfully sued over failure to meet EPA cycle MPG?


This isn't "your sticker said 27, I'm getting only 25".

This is WAY different.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 09:06 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

In article <Xns9FCB6117F9142jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44> ,
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

> no matter what,fuel economy or "mileage" depends largely on the driver's
> style of driving. Terrain and traffic flow also have a major effect.if
> you're stuck a lot in stop-n-go traffic,then mileage suffers.
> those EPA numbers are comparison numbers,not guarantees.
> YMMV holds true here! ;-)


No, what matters is that Honda knowingly built a bad battery, and then
to save themselves on warranty costs they "fixed" the car's software in
a way that pretty much eliminated the battery and forced the end user to
use more gas.

THAT'S what Honda faces in court, should this go that far.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 09:16 am
News
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

On 12/30/2011 10:04 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<n_CdnSTm45GyJ2DTnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@megapath. net>,
> News<News@Group.Post> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone ever successfully sued over failure to meet EPA cycle MPG?

>
> This isn't "your sticker said 27, I'm getting only 25".
>
> This is WAY different.



The threshold issue aside, you are avoiding the question.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 30 Dec 2011, 05:57 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

In article <xtWdna2uFrBXSGDTnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@megapath.net>,
News <News@Group.Name> wrote:

> On 12/30/2011 10:04 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > In article<n_CdnSTm45GyJ2DTnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@megapath. net>,
> > News<News@Group.Post> wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone ever successfully sued over failure to meet EPA cycle MPG?

> >
> > This isn't "your sticker said 27, I'm getting only 25".
> >
> > This is WAY different.

>
>
> The threshold issue aside, you are avoiding the question.


I don't *care* about the question. It's immaterial to the issue at hand.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 31 Dec 2011, 11:30 am
JRStern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unhappy Civic Hybrid owner? Gee, who'd'a THUNK?

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:05:51 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>my 89 civic has averaged 36.25mpg so far this quarter, and 34.87 the
>last year. mixed highway and city.


We can fix that with modern technology: put three hundred pounds of
batteries and a hundred pounds of electric motor in your trunk, and
you can then equal new hybrid mileage. It really doesn't matter much
whether they are all in boxes or hooked up to the wheels.

J.

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