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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14 Feb 2007, 11:16 pm
Gordon McGrew
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Default Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?


I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
correct?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14 Feb 2007, 11:20 pm
Mark A
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Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?


I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly accelerate
with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it was charged) but
there would not be enough horsepower in the electric motor alone to satisfy
people (and it might not be safe to accelerate so slowly in high traffic
situations). If not accelerating, then the electric motor can sometimes do
it alone.


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 12:00 am
Hachiroku ハチロク
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Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:

> "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>>
>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids like
>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure electric
>> over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the Prius' all
>> electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this correct?

>
> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it was
> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric motor
> alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to accelerate so slowly
> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric motor
> can sometimes do it alone.



The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a LOT of
other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also, the
US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of the
world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be changed
by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)

Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run the
generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The display
will show you what's happening...

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 06:50 am
Michael Pardee
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Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?


You can find more expertise at alt.autos.toyota.prius. They will also want
to know what year, since there are significant differences between the
Classic (2001-2003) and the second generation (2004+). Ours are both
Classics (2002), so I'll go from that perspective.

As the others indicate, there are a lot of variables. Cold weather makes it
much more prone to run the engine in order to produce heat, which passengers
seem to enjoy :-) The state of hybrid battery charge will affect it, too,
including the entirely counter-intuitive behavior of restarting the engine
periodically to bleed off extra charge if the state of charge is high.

Cold weather, particularly as the temperature drops below freezing, will
take the edge off fuel efficiency. I'm barely managing 30 mpg with mainly 3
mile trips in subfreezing weather right now, but when the weather warms up
it will go back into the mid-40s. OTOH, what other car would provide 30 mpg
under those conditions?

Mostly, the hybrid system knows what to do. There have been reports of
misbehavior - especially shuddering when the engine shuts down - that have
been corrected by disconnecting the 12 volt "aux" battery for a few minutes.
Maybe the car should have ctrl-alt-del keys ;-)

Mike


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 07:07 am
Tomes
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

"Hachiroku wrote
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:
>> "Gordon McGrew" wrote
>>>
>>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>>> like
>>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure electric
>>> over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the Prius' all
>>> electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this correct?

>>
>> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
>> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it
>> was
>> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric motor
>> alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to accelerate so
>> slowly
>> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric
>> motor
>> can sometimes do it alone.

>
> The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a LOT
> of
> other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also,
> the
> US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of the
> world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be changed
> by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)
>
> Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run the
> generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The display
> will show you what's happening...
>

I have and drive a Prius. It is just how it is set up. My Prius will
start up in electric when the battery is charged enough and accelerate up
to maybe 40 or so on electric alone - but it is painstakingly slow. One
cannot do this in traffic, thus the need to press down a bit harder and
engage the gas engine. I too would very much like for this car to rely on
the electric much more than it does now.
Tomes


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 08:01 am
Andrew Stephenson
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Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

In article <n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com>
RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com "Gordon McGrew" writes:

> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions.


The point where the petrol engine fires up depends on a mixture
of road speed and load being imposed. "Racing starts" are sure
to get it going at low speeds, in the Mk2 UK "T4" at least. If
just moving away gently from traffic lights (not a common thing
in the US has been my impression <g>), here in the UK I tend to
hit 10mph or so before the petrol engine joins the party.

> It would seem that the Prius' all electric performance is very
> modest indeed. Is this correct?


Google for recent (Jan 2007) posts by me under the Subject 'More
on Prius "EV" mode'. Being all-electric is not the point of the
Prius. Being efficient in its use of fuel is. Huge difference.
--
Andrew Stephenson

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 08:51 am
mark_digital
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?


"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?

---
Incorrect.
The earlier hybrid Civics were mild hybrids meaning the electric motor could
only assist the gasoline engine but could not perform independently. Today's
hybrid Civics are now *full* hybrids.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 10:50 am
Jim Yanik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

"Tomes" <askme@here.net> wrote in
news:jWYAh.2397$tD2.642@newsread1.news.pas.earthli nk.net:

> "Hachiroku wrote
>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:
>>> "Gordon McGrew" wrote
>>>>
>>>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started
>>>> up before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>>>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>>>> like
>>>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
>>>> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
>>>> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
>>>> correct?
>>>
>>> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
>>> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming
>>> it was
>>> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric
>>> motor alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to
>>> accelerate so slowly
>>> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric
>>> motor
>>> can sometimes do it alone.

>>
>> The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a
>> LOT of
>> other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also,
>> the
>> US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of
>> the world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be
>> changed by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)
>>
>> Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run
>> the generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The
>> display will show you what's happening...
>>

> I have and drive a Prius. It is just how it is set up. My Prius will
> start up in electric when the battery is charged enough and accelerate
> up to maybe 40 or so on electric alone - but it is painstakingly slow.
> One cannot do this in traffic, thus the need to press down a bit
> harder and engage the gas engine. I too would very much like for this
> car to rely on the electric much more than it does now.
> Tomes
>
>
>


I've heard of Prius people adding another battery pack(in addition to the
stock one) and 120VAC charger to get better use on the electric side,and
reduce gas usage.Then you can plug it in at night or when you have access
to an outlet.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 02:41 pm
Bill Tuthill
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

In alt.autos.toyota Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?


Yes, except Honda update as another poster noted.

An after-market switch is available to make the current Prius operate
entirely on electric motors, like a Euro model. After Andrew's test
I thought it would not be worthwhile, but I'm having second thoughts.
Steven Scharf (SMS) posted this URL describing how:

http://www.calcars.org/prius-evbutton-install.pdf

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2007, 03:21 pm
Andrew Stephenson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

In article <45d4c58c@news.meer.net> ccreekin@yahoo.com "Bill Tuthill" writes:

> An after-market switch is available to make the current Prius operate
> entirely on electric motors, like a Euro model. After Andrew's test
> I thought it would not be worthwhile, but I'm having second thoughts.
> Steven Scharf (SMS) posted this URL describing how:
>
> http://www.calcars.org/prius-evbutton-install.pdf


ISTR more perspectives on this can be had by browsing around the
website priuschat.com -- mostly by folks who wanted to do it and
are mentioning odd details. In a UK Euro-Prius, the "EV" button
occupies the right-hand position of two switch holes to the left
of the steering column. If similar spaces exist in USian models
that would seem a good place to put the control. OTOH, a couple
of postings mentioned re-using controls on the steering wheel.
--
Andrew Stephenson

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