Honda Car Forum

hey,
my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
it turns over fine but doesnt start,
the ecu light comes on=had it replaced it still does it,
its got;

new plugs
new leads
new dizzy
new fuel filter
new fuel injectors
the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out

took it to honda thay said the ecu codes were coming up as the
injector failing, got a new one,
then took it back
they said it was the ecu, had it changed.. now they dont want to know,
it tends not to start when i need it the most,
specially in a petrol station! when everyones waiting!

ive had so many mechanics look at it and theyve told me to sell it, i
dont want to cause ive got it how i like it ( boyed up )

honda say its got to be something to do with the wiring loom whitch is
going to cost £60 an hour for 2 days work.... TO GET IT OUT!,
then a further 2 days to put it back in, i dont know whether they are
taking the piss or not?
it would be nice to speak to someone who isnt going to fob me off for
once and who honestly wants to help my sorry ass!

let me know
cheers
:P kitty

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kitty666r <none@000.com> wrote in
news:974096_6c0302f56ee1978dc91b46fdabdfaa78@autob oardz.com:

> hey,
> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
> it turns over fine but doesnt start,
> the ecu light comes on=had it replaced it still does it,
> its got;
>
> new plugs
> new leads
> new dizzy

"dizzy"=distributor? was the igniter replaced also?
Was the distributor cap and rotor replaced? Ignition coil?


> new fuel filter
> new fuel injectors
> the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out

why was the relay bypassed?
Problems with the main relay solder joints are a common cause of "cranks
but won't keep running".(due to no fuel pressure at the rail)
How is the fuel pressure at the fuel rail?


>
> took it to honda thay said the ecu codes were coming up as the
> injector failing, got a new one,
> then took it back
> they said it was the ecu, had it changed.. now they dont want to know,
> it tends not to start when i need it the most,
> specially in a petrol station! when everyones waiting!
>
> ive had so many mechanics look at it and theyve told me to sell it, i
> dont want to cause ive got it how i like it ( boyed up )
>
> honda say its got to be something to do with the wiring loom whitch is
> going to cost £60 an hour for 2 days work.... TO GET IT OUT!,
> then a further 2 days to put it back in, i dont know whether they are
> taking the piss or not?
> it would be nice to speak to someone who isnt going to fob me off for
> once and who honestly wants to help my sorry ass!
>
> let me know
> cheers
> :P kitty
>


What model year is it? Mileage?
Ignition switch? (maybe worn out)

Check the engine grounds.unscrew each one,scrape to bare metal for good
contact,tighten. Inspect the ground wires for corrosion.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

kitty666r wrote:
> hey,
> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
> it turns over fine but doesnt start,
> the ecu light comes on=had it replaced it still does it,
> its got;
>
> new plugs
> new leads
> new dizzy
> new fuel filter
> new fuel injectors
> the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out
>
> took it to honda thay said the ecu codes were coming up as the
> injector failing, got a new one,
> then took it back
> they said it was the ecu, had it changed.. now they dont want to know,
> it tends not to start when i need it the most,
> specially in a petrol station! when everyones waiting!
>
> ive had so many mechanics look at it and theyve told me to sell it, i
> dont want to cause ive got it how i like it ( boyed up )
>
> honda say its got to be something to do with the wiring loom whitch is
> going to cost �60 an hour for 2 days work.... TO GET IT OUT!,
> then a further 2 days to put it back in, i dont know whether they are
> taking the piss or not?
> it would be nice to speak to someone who isnt going to fob me off for
> once and who honestly wants to help my sorry ass!
>
> let me know
> cheers
> :P kitty
>
what is the year of the vehicle? do you get any codes? if so, what?

"injectors" sounds like classic main relay [and highly
incompetent/expensive misrepair], but please confirm the other
information requested to help diagnosis.

kitty666r wrote:
> hey,
> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
> it turns over fine but doesnt start,

===================================

If it _only_ happens after the (unknown) Civic has sat overnight or over
the weekend, it's probably simple flooding. The owner's manual tells you
how to get it to start. The cure is to run injector cleaner (one is
dribbling overnight) through the engine three or four times a year. My
Odyssey did it too. I never thought to read the manual and spent a bunch
of unnecesary money on it.

'Curly'

kitty666r <none@000.com> wrote in news:974096_
6c0302f56ee1978dc91b46fdabdfaa78@autoboardz.com:

> hey,
> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
> it turns over fine but doesnt start,
> the ecu light comes on=had it replaced



You replaced the computer? That wasn't bright.



> it still does it,
> its got;
>
> new plugs
> new leads
> new dizzy
> new fuel filter
> new fuel injectors
> the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out



Can't do that in an EFI vehicle. you're misunderstanding whatever they
did.



>
> took it to honda



No, you took it to an indepenent dealer that owns a Honda franchise,



> thay said the ecu codes were coming up as the
> injector failing, got a new one,



A new "one"? How many injectors tdoes this car have? You'd better give
the year and model here.



> then took it back
> they said it was the ecu, had it changed..



That wasn't bright at all. Pretty stupid, in fact.



> now they dont want to know,
> it tends not to start when i need it the most,
> specially in a petrol station! when everyones waiting!



Sounds like that "fuel relay" that they allegedly bypassed. The solder's
cracked. You'll get the no-start plus the injector error if the solder
cracks just the right way.



>
> ive had so many mechanics look at it and theyve told me to sell it, i
> dont want to cause ive got it how i like it ( boyed up )
>
> honda say its got to be something to do with the wiring loom whitch is
> going to cost £60 an hour for 2 days work.... TO GET IT OUT!,
> then a further 2 days to put it back in, i dont know whether they are
> taking the piss or not?
> it would be nice to speak to someone who isnt going to fob me off for
> once and who honestly wants to help my sorry ass!
>


See here:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/start...html#mainrelay


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns98D1EA10D23F1jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.87:

> kitty666r <none@000.com> wrote in
> news:974096_6c0302f56ee1978dc91b46fdabdfaa78@autob oardz.com:
>
>> hey,
>> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
>> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
>> it turns over fine but doesnt start,
>> the ecu light comes on=had it replaced it still does it,
>> its got;
>>
>> new plugs
>> new leads
>> new dizzy
>
> "dizzy"=distributor?



British term for the distributor.



> was the igniter replaced also?
> Was the distributor cap and rotor replaced? Ignition coil?
>
>
>> new fuel filter
>> new fuel injectors
>> the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out
>
> why was the relay bypassed?



You CAN'T "bypass" the main relay in an EFI car. The ECU will complain
loudly if you do that.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"kitty666r" <none@000.com> wrote in message
news:974096_6c0302f56ee1978dc91b46fdabdfaa78@autob oardz.com...
> hey,
> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
> it turns over fine but doesnt start,
> the ecu light comes on=had it replaced it still does it,
> its got;
>
> new plugs
> new leads
> new dizzy
> new fuel filter
> new fuel injectors
> the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out
>
> took it to honda thay said the ecu codes were coming up as the
> injector failing, got a new one,
> then took it back
> they said it was the ecu, had it changed.. now they dont want to know,
> it tends not to start when i need it the most,
> specially in a petrol station! when everyones waiting!
>
> ive had so many mechanics look at it and theyve told me to sell it, i
> dont want to cause ive got it how i like it ( boyed up )
>
> honda say its got to be something to do with the wiring loom whitch is
> going to cost £60 an hour for 2 days work.... TO GET IT OUT!,
> then a further 2 days to put it back in, i dont know whether they are
> taking the piss or not?
> it would be nice to speak to someone who isnt going to fob me off for
> once and who honestly wants to help my sorry ass!
>
> let me know
> cheers
> :P kitty
>
> --
>
What really bothers me is that I can't recall anybody who has reported a bad
wiring harness (loom) in Hondas. It seems odd the shop even suggests that.
You are already (as you seem to suspect) way beyond the point of any
troubleshooting being done. Follow TeGGeR's link for the "main relay" -
which is pretty much the first thing we think of when somebody mentions
intermittent start. As TeGGeR says, bypassing it isn't really an option.
Replacing it on general suspicion (as has been done with several more
expensive parts, apparently) is reasonable, since it is a part that can be
expected to give trouble every decade or so... and produce the very symptoms
you describe.

Mike

The clue is in the OP ---

> dont want to cause ive got it how i like it ( boyed up )

The dealer and no other legitimate mechanic wants to touch this thing
because it has had wires hacked into for stereo's, alarms, lights, and
to bypass the fuel relay and who knows what else has been bypassed.


Michael Pardee wrote:

>>
> What really bothers me is that I can't recall anybody who has reported a bad
> wiring harness (loom) in Hondas. It seems odd the shop even suggests that.
>
>

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns98D3C257D8A85tegger@207.14.116.130:

> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns98D1EA10D23F1jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.87:
>
>> kitty666r <none@000.com> wrote in
>> news:974096_6c0302f56ee1978dc91b46fdabdfaa78@autob oardz.com:
>>
>>> hey,
>>> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
>>> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
>>> it turns over fine but doesnt start,
>>> the ecu light comes on=had it replaced it still does it,
>>> its got;
>>>
>>> new plugs
>>> new leads
>>> new dizzy
>>
>> "dizzy"=distributor?
>
>
>
> British term for the distributor.
>
>
>
>> was the igniter replaced also?
>> Was the distributor cap and rotor replaced? Ignition coil?
>>
>>
>>> new fuel filter
>>> new fuel injectors
>>> the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out
>>
>> why was the relay bypassed?
>
>
>
> You CAN'T "bypass" the main relay in an EFI car. The ECU will complain
> loudly if you do that.
>
>

it would be a dangerous fire hazard,too.
In an accident,the fuel relay would not shut off the pump,and if a gasline
was broken,it would continue pumping gas for any spark to ignite.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

thanks for your help guys i appriciate it xx

its a 1994 honda civic lsi,


the fault code was code 16 they said it was due to the injectors, so i
replaced the lot, it came up again ( 16 ) they said it was the ecu had
that replaced... did the same,

the fuel relay was bypassed in case it cut out the fuel for any reason
i think, its done 109,000 miles
the distributer cap and rotor were also replaced,

as for the once in a blue moon thing....
i go on holiday for 2 weeks come back and it starts fine... after a
week or so of smooth starting i go up the shop get something get in
the car and chug chug chug doesnt start, it sounds ok on turning over
it just wont kick in, i leave it for a coupl of minutes then it
starts,
its then fine for a week or so,

when a mechanic has it in the garage he starts it every half hour for
two days.... doesnt do it, after a few days of yet again smooth
starting i drive to work 7 miles away, leave it for 8 hours then i try
again wont start.. FOR AN HOUR rac comes out to rescue me, he arrives
and oh... it starts as soon as he gets there!

i couldnt put an exact time period say it does it every 12 days
because its that unpredictable
thankyou for all your suggestions i will print them out and shove them
under hondas nose keep them coming it all helps!

cheers for restoring my faith in guys :wink:


"kitty666r" wrote
> [color=indigo:8b563e5bc9][/color:8b563e5bc9]
> hey,
> my civic has a " once in a blue moon " starting problem,
> it doesnt matter what the weather is like,
> it turns over fine but doesnt start,
> the ecu light comes on=had it replaced it still does it,
> its got;
>
> new plugs
> new leads
> new dizzy
> new fuel filter
> new fuel injectors
> the fuel relay has been bypassed so that cancels that out
>
> took it to honda thay said the ecu codes were coming up as the
> injector failing, got a new one,
> then took it back
> they said it was the ecu, had it changed.. now they dont want
> to know,
> it tends not to start when i need it the most,
> specially in a petrol station! when everyones waiting!
>
> ive had so many mechanics look at it and theyve told me to
> sell it, i dont want to cause ive got it how i like it ( boyed
> up )
>
> honda say its got to be something to do with the wiring loom
> whitch is going to cost £60 an hour for 2 days work.... TO GET
> IT OUT!,
> then a further 2 days to put it back in, i dont know whether
> they are taking the piss or not?
> it would be nice to speak to someone who isnt going to fob me
> off for once and who honestly wants to help my sorry ass!
>
> let me know
> cheers
> :P kitty xxxx