Honda Car Forum

Trying to help a neighbor.
1988 Accord LX
No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at normal
speed...
We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable, but no
fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side of either
filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON" position we
can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off, but no
fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is cranked over
no fuel comes out of the fuel line.
I read on-line that there is a problem on some Hondas with the PGM-FI
relay. Where is this PGM-FI relay located on a 1988 Accord LX? When
the fuel pump is on during the initial 1-2 seconds and also when the
engine is cranked over shouldn’t we get fuel out of the fuel lines?
I’m not sure why we can hear the pump run for the 1-2 second initial
time frame, but not get fuel. Even though we can hear the pump run for
that 1-2 second interval could the pump still be the main suspected
bad part? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

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twodotmike wrote:
> Trying to help a neighbor.
> 1988 Accord LX
> No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at normal
> speed...
> We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable, but no
> fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side of either
> filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON" position we
> can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off, but no
> fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is cranked over
> no fuel comes out of the fuel line.
> I read on-line that there is a problem on some Hondas with the PGM-FI
> relay. Where is this PGM-FI relay located on a 1988 Accord LX? When
> the fuel pump is on during the initial 1-2 seconds and also when the
> engine is cranked over shouldn�t we get fuel out of the fuel lines?
> I�m not sure why we can hear the pump run for the 1-2 second initial
> time frame, but not get fuel. Even though we can hear the pump run for
> that 1-2 second interval could the pump still be the main suspected
> bad part? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
>

is this injected or carburetted?

if this an injected 88 and the main relay's never been replaced before,
suggest taking it out and inspecting carefully with a magnifier. go to
tegger.com and read the faq's on how to fix it. you're right, hearing
the pump work is usually the tell-tale for the relay, but not always -
sometimes the injector ground circuit fails, not the fuel pump circuit.
check the ecu and see if you have any codes. on that age civics, it
sets a code 16 if the relay's playing up.

Thank you, Jim, for your response. I appreciate your input

"jim beam" wrote
> twodotmike wrote:
> > Trying to help a neighbor.
> > 1988 Accord LX
> > No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at
> normal
> > speed...
> > We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable,
> but no
> > fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side
> of either
> > filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON"
> position we
> > can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off,
> but no
> > fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is
> cranked over
> > no fuel comes out of the fuel line.
> > I read on-line that there is a problem on some Hondas with
> the PGM-FI
> > relay. Where is this PGM-FI relay located on a 1988 Accord
> LX? When
> > the fuel pump is on during the initial 1-2 seconds and also
> when the
> > engine is cranked over shouldn�t we get fuel out of the
> fuel lines?
> > I�m not sure why we can hear the pump run for the 1-2
> second initial
> > time frame, but not get fuel. Even though we can hear the
> pump run for
> > that 1-2 second interval could the pump still be the main
> suspected
> > bad part? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
> >
>
> is this injected or carburetted?
>
> if this an injected 88 and the main relay's never been
> replaced before,
> suggest taking it out and inspecting carefully with a
> magnifier. go to
> tegger.com and read the faq's on how to fix it. you're right,
> hearing
> the pump work is usually the tell-tale for the relay, but not
> always -
> sometimes the injector ground circuit fails, not the fuel pump
> circuit.
> check the ecu and see if you have any codes. on that age
> civics, it
> sets a code 16 if the relay's playing up.

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"twodotmike" <none@000.com> wrote in message
news:952053_d0911493cdbdd7818f33957fc2a8697e@autob oardz.com...
> Trying to help a neighbor.
> 1988 Accord LX
> No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at normal
> speed...
> We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable, but no
> fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side of either
> filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON" position we
> can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off, but no
> fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is cranked over
> no fuel comes out of the fuel line.
> I read on-line that there is a problem on some Hondas with the PGM-FI
> relay. Where is this PGM-FI relay located on a 1988 Accord LX? When
> the fuel pump is on during the initial 1-2 seconds and also when the
> engine is cranked over shouldn't we get fuel out of the fuel lines?
> I'm not sure why we can hear the pump run for the 1-2 second initial
> time frame, but not get fuel. Even though we can hear the pump run for
> that 1-2 second interval could the pump still be the main suspected
> bad part? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.


The fuel cut off relay is located in the under dash fuse box to the left of
the steering column.


Bob

jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:etWdnT4ePeswHhnYnZ2dnUVZ_uW3nZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

> twodotmike wrote:
>> Trying to help a neighbor.
>> 1988 Accord LX
>> No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at normal
>> speed...
>> We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable, but no
>> fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side of either
>> filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON" position we
>> can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off, but no
>> fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is cranked over
>> no fuel comes out of the fuel line.
>> I read on-line that there is a problem on some Hondas with the PGM-FI
>> relay. Where is this PGM-FI relay located on a 1988 Accord LX? When
>> the fuel pump is on during the initial 1-2 seconds and also when the
>> engine is cranked over shouldn�t we get fuel out of the fuel lines?
>> I�m not sure why we can hear the pump run for the 1-2 second initial
>> time frame, but not get fuel. Even though we can hear the pump run for
>> that 1-2 second interval could the pump still be the main suspected
>> bad part? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
>>
>
> is this injected or carburetted?
>
> if this an injected 88 and the main relay's never been replaced before,
> suggest taking it out and inspecting carefully with a magnifier. go to
> tegger.com and read the faq's on how to fix it. you're right, hearing
> the pump work is usually the tell-tale for the relay, but not always -
> sometimes the injector ground circuit fails, not the fuel pump circuit.
> check the ecu and see if you have any codes. on that age civics, it
> sets a code 16 if the relay's playing up.
>

And as long as you have the MR out and disassembled,go ahead and resolder
it so you will not have to do it at some later date.

www.tegger.com has info on this.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Thank you, Bob,

Some time this week when I can get with my neighbor we’ll try to check
it out. I appreciate the relay location info as it will save me time
trying to find it! He doesn’t have any repair manuals for the car so
we’re going at this ’blind’. I am thinking of going to my local
library to see if I might find some more info there. Again, THANK YO

"rjdriver" wrote
> "twodotmike" <none@000.com> wrote in message
> news:952053_d0911493cdbdd7818f33957fc2a8697e@autob oardz.com...
> > Trying to help a neighbor.
> > 1988 Accord LX
> > No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at
> normal
> > speed...
> > We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable,
> but no
> > fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side
> of either
> > filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON"
> position we
> > can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off,
> but no
> > fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is
> cranked over
> > no fuel comes out of the fuel line.
> > I read on-line that there is a problem on some Hondas with
> the PGM-FI
> > relay. Where is this PGM-FI relay located on a 1988 Accord
> LX? When
> > the fuel pump is on during the initial 1-2 seconds and also
> when the
> > engine is cranked over shouldn't we get fuel out of the fuel
> lines?
> > I'm not sure why we can hear the pump run for the 1-2 second
> initial
> > time frame, but not get fuel. Even though we can hear the
> pump run for
> > that 1-2 second interval could the pump still be the main
> suspected
> > bad part? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
>
>
> The fuel cut off relay is located in the under dash fuse box
> to the left of
> the steering column.
>
>
> Bob

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twodotmike <none@000.com> wrote in news:952053
_d0911493cdbdd7818f33957fc2a8697e@autoboardz.com:

> Trying to help a neighbor.
> 1988 Accord LX
> No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at normal
> speed...
> We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable, but no
> fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side of either
> filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON" position we
> can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off, but no
> fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is cranked over
> no fuel comes out of the fuel line.



If you hear the pump run, then the relay is fine, whether it's PGM-CARB or
PGM-FI.

If the pump definitely runs but no fuel comes out of the lines at the
filter, then you have either a blocked line or the pickup has fallen off
inside the tank.

When did this start, and how?



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger,
As an update, I believe the car is carbureted, not FI.
My neighbor says it just happened...he was out of town for the weekend
(the car was parked in front of his house) and when he went to start
it last Monday mornig - nothing.
As for the pump running - should we have 12 volts at the pump
connector both during the 1-2 second initial pressure build up and
when we crank the engine over? A full 12 volts each time or will the
supply power be reduced for any reason at any time? Also, is this 1-2
second running of the pump just to build up pressure within the pump
itself or should we be getting fuel flow out of the fuel line at this
time?
Sorry to sound disjointed on this, but as we work different hours we
don’t see each other every day and when I did look at the problem late
last Friday I didn’t give the type of fuel system any thought, I just
assumed (I know, I know) in that year it would have been FI, but after
looking at the fuel filter by the left rear wheel (typical old
fashioned style fuel filter) I believe it is a carbureted fuel system.
When I can next get under the hood, of course I’m checking!
I was reading on-line about testing the fuel pump pressure and output
and when I next get the chance I’m going to jumper the relay sockets
and see what happens with the pump.
Thank you for the input about the pick up line. I wasn’t sure if just
because we heard the pump run it was okay internally. At the price of
a fuel pump I didn’t want to tell my neighbor that it was bad until we
could do a little more troubleshooting

"Tegger" wrote
> twodotmike <none@000.com> wrote in news:952053
> _d0911493cdbdd7818f33957fc2a8697e@autoboardz.com:
>
> > Trying to help a neighbor.
> > 1988 Accord LX
> > No start, NO FUEL, does have spark and engine cranks over at
> normal
> > speed...
> > We have checked both fuel filters and they seem serviceable,
> but no
> > fuel comes out of the fuel line at the inlet or oultet side
> of either
> > filter position. When ignition key is turned to the "ON"
> position we
> > can hear the fuel pump run for 1-2 seconds and then cut off,
> but no
> > fuel comes out of the fuel line. Also, when the engine is
> cranked over
> > no fuel comes out of the fuel line.
>
>
>
> If you hear the pump run, then the relay is fine, whether it's
> PGM-CARB or
> PGM-FI.
>
> If the pump definitely runs but no fuel comes out of the lines
> at the
> filter, then you have either a blocked line or the pickup has
> fallen off
> inside the tank.
>
> When did this start, and how?
>
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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twodotmike <none@000.com> wrote in
news:953071_dc7fb53e2da55b6f6ff76443ee4ce993@autob oardz.com:

> Tegger,
> As an update, I believe the car is carbureted, not FI.
> My neighbor says it just happened...he was out of town for the weekend
> (the car was parked in front of his house) and when he went to start
> it last Monday mornig - nothing.
> As for the pump running - should we have 12 volts at the pump
> connector both during the 1-2 second initial pressure build up and
> when we crank the engine over?



Yes.


> A full 12 volts each time or will the
> supply power be reduced for any reason at any time? Also, is this 1-2
> second running of the pump just to build up pressure within the pump
> itself or should we be getting fuel flow out of the fuel line at this
> time?



If the pump is running, you will have fuel flow. If the pump is not
running, there will be no fuel flow. An FI system will maintain pressure
when shut off. A carbed system will allow the pressure to bleed off to the
tank through the return line.

You'd better check and see if this thing has a carb.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns989EC2C70390Ctegger@207.14.116.130...
> twodotmike <none@000.com> wrote in
> news:953071_dc7fb53e2da55b6f6ff76443ee4ce993@autob oardz.com:
>
>> Tegger,
>> As an update, I believe the car is carbureted, not FI.
>> My neighbor says it just happened...he was out of town for the weekend
>> (the car was parked in front of his house) and when he went to start
>> it last Monday mornig - nothing.
>> As for the pump running - should we have 12 volts at the pump
>> connector both during the 1-2 second initial pressure build up and
>> when we crank the engine over?
>
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> A full 12 volts each time or will the
>> supply power be reduced for any reason at any time? Also, is this 1-2
>> second running of the pump just to build up pressure within the pump
>> itself or should we be getting fuel flow out of the fuel line at this
>> time?
>
>
>
> If the pump is running, you will have fuel flow. If the pump is not
> running, there will be no fuel flow. An FI system will maintain pressure
> when shut off. A carbed system will allow the pressure to bleed off to the
> tank through the return line.
>
> You'd better check and see if this thing has a carb.

If I am remembering the Accord model designations from back then
correctly, unless there is a letter "i" after the LX, it has a carburetor.


Bob