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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 20 Sep 2011, 06:31 am
Bob
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Default CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

Hello,

Sr. Citizen now, and frankly not into auto technology.
But would like to ask:

Son says he is interested in the CR-V.
We've always had really good luck with Honda's, so great.

Live in New England, near Boston. Fair amount of snow and ice in winter.

I looked at the Honda website, and see the 2011 CR-V
have (only) 4 wheel drive.

I thought by now just about everyone has gone over to AWD, which I guess
means AWD "full time". True ?

Anyway, should he re-consider, and go for something that does have AWD ?

What, if anything, is he giving up with only 4 wheel drive ?
I'm sure that I'm missing something here.

Pros and cons, and a bit of education on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 20 Sep 2011, 08:54 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

In article <j59tiq$de9$1@dont-email.me>, Bob <rgsros@notme.invalid>
wrote:

> Son says he is interested in the CR-V.
> We've always had really good luck with Honda's, so great.
>
> Live in New England, near Boston. Fair amount of snow and ice in winter.
>
> I looked at the Honda website, and see the 2011 CR-V
> have (only) 4 wheel drive.
>
> I thought by now just about everyone has gone over to AWD, which I guess
> means AWD "full time". True ?
>
> Anyway, should he re-consider, and go for something that does have AWD ?
>
> What, if anything, is he giving up with only 4 wheel drive ?
> I'm sure that I'm missing something here.


What you're missing is that marketing people use whatever phrases they
want to describe something, with the ultimate goal of getting as many
people to buy their stuff as possible.

Their goal is NOT clear communication. You, however, are asking for
clear communication.

The CRV is all-wheel drive. What that means is that under normal
conditions, the front wheels drive the car. Under conditions that
demand it (the front wheels are slipping), the system can engage the
rear wheels.

One could argue, technically, that if all four wheels are capable of
being driven, then it's a 4WD vehicle. However, there are many, many
ways to drive all four wheels; the Honda system is only one of them.
Other ways involve transfer cases, locking differentials, etc.--and
those are *generally* considered to be 4WD vehicles, while the Honda
system is generally considered to be an AWD vehicle.

There is no FORMAL definition of AWD or 4WD, only generally accepted
conventions.

You're getting hung up on marketing semantics. Don't.

That all being said, exactly what behavior are you looking for from the
car? If you can define the behavior you're looking for, we can help you
find a car that fits your need.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 20 Sep 2011, 12:33 pm
SMS
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Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

On 9/20/2011 4:31 AM, Bob wrote:

> I looked at the Honda website, and see the 2011 CR-V
> have (only) 4 wheel drive.


Wrong, it's AWD.

> I thought by now just about everyone has gone over to AWD, which I guess
> means AWD "full time". True ?


False.

> Anyway, should he re-consider, and go for something that does have AWD ?


Maybe you're confusing full time 4WD and AWD. Subaru's are full time
4WD. Honda's have AWD. For snow and ice either full time 4WD or
user-selectable 4WD is better than AWD. At least on the Pilot you can
manually engage the AWD for low speed driving only. Not sure about the
present CR-V but the first CR-V did not have that capability.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 20 Sep 2011, 07:36 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

Bob <rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in news:j59tiq$de9$1@dont-email.me:

> Hello,
>
> Sr. Citizen now, and frankly not into auto technology.
> But would like to ask:
>
> Son says he is interested in the CR-V.
> We've always had really good luck with Honda's, so great.
>
> Live in New England, near Boston. Fair amount of snow and ice in winter.
>
> I looked at the Honda website, and see the 2011 CR-V
> have (only) 4 wheel drive.




How many wheels does a car have? Four? Five? Seven? You know the answer.

"AWD" and "4WD" are the same thing: Honda's system contrives to drive all
the vehicle's wheels. But...




>
> I thought by now just about everyone has gone over to AWD, which I guess
> means AWD "full time". True ?




Honda's system feeds power to the front wheels ALL the time, but to the
rear wheels ONLY if the fronts begin to slip and fail to propel the vehicle
in the desired direction.

Summary:
Poor traction = power to all the wheels.
Good traction = power to the fronts only.

A system that fed power to all four wheels all the time would be
inefficient and wasteful of gas. In fact, few AWD/4WD vehicles feed power
to all the wheels all the time; most use some variation of the
"slip-sensing" system that Honda uses.



--
Tegger
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 20 Sep 2011, 08:20 pm
billzz
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Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

Ah, Grasshopper. You must be a young whippersnapper. Back in the good olddays of the US Army Jeep, there was a FWD low selector which locked all four wheels. One could rapidly scrub off the tires, if one was on pavement, but in snow or sand, they would all spin away merrily, throwing crap in alldirections.

The Honda is much more advanced, and my Pilot Touring senses what it needs automatically, and is so smooth that I have not, in a year, even known whatwheels were driven. And we live in the Sierra Nevada so it has had a few spins in the snow. It has a button to push, when in second, to lock all the wheels, but I have not had to use it, and I know better to never use it unless as a last resort.

As an aside my first army duty, as a second lieutenant was heading an experimental maintenance unit, following a 500-track combat command, for a week (no sleep) and it was amazing how many ways the Jeep drivers lost control in 4WD. M38A1s and M151s. They finally had to put out a rule that no one could use 4WD on any road (which makes sense, they just forgot.) Now I liveclose enough to the Rubicon Trail that I see all the wrecks coming through, and hear the stories. I think to myself, "been there, done that."
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 20 Sep 2011, 08:29 pm
SMS
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Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

On 9/20/2011 5:36 PM, Tegger wrote:
> Bob<rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in news:j59tiq$de9$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Sr. Citizen now, and frankly not into auto technology.
>> But would like to ask:
>>
>> Son says he is interested in the CR-V.
>> We've always had really good luck with Honda's, so great.
>>
>> Live in New England, near Boston. Fair amount of snow and ice in winter.
>>
>> I looked at the Honda website, and see the 2011 CR-V
>> have (only) 4 wheel drive.

>
>
>
> How many wheels does a car have? Four? Five? Seven? You know the answer.
>
> "AWD" and "4WD" are the same thing: Honda's system contrives to drive all
> the vehicle's wheels. But...


Not really. Subaru powers all the wheels at the same time, while Honda
only powers the rear wheels if slippage is detected. The problem with
the Honda system is that by the time the slippage is detected and power
is applied to the rear wheels you can already be spinning out on ice.

We frequently go up to the Sierras, me in my 4 Runner with driver
selectable 4WD, and my sister-in-law in her AWD Honda Pilot. The Pilot
does poorly on snow and ice. At very low speeds you can engage the rear
wheels manually on the Pilot, but often this is not optimal. You often
want to drive at 25MPH or so on winter roads with 4WD engaged, but the
Honda system unlocks the manual locking at 18MPH.

The big advantage to the Honda system is that it gets you out of the
legal requirement to put on tire chains, which the CHP often mandates
(to slow people down) even when conditions don't really warrant chains.

> A system that fed power to all four wheels all the time would be
> inefficient and wasteful of gas. In fact, few AWD/4WD vehicles feed power
> to all the wheels all the time; most use some variation of the
> "slip-sensing" system that Honda uses.


A better system is the manual 4WD selection available on 4WD truck based
vehicles, but for MTVs (Mall Terrain Vehicles) the owners would not
tolerate such a system.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2011, 06:15 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

In article <4e793e06$0$1688$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> We frequently go up to the Sierras, me in my 4 Runner with driver
> selectable 4WD, and my sister-in-law in her AWD Honda Pilot. The Pilot
> does poorly on snow and ice.


Put winter tires on that baby.

People always forget about the tires....use the wrong tool for the job,
and you'll always get bad results...
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2011, 09:45 am
SMS
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

On 9/21/2011 4:15 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<4e793e06$0$1688$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> SMS<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> We frequently go up to the Sierras, me in my 4 Runner with driver
>> selectable 4WD, and my sister-in-law in her AWD Honda Pilot. The Pilot
>> does poorly on snow and ice.

>
> Put winter tires on that baby.
>
> People always forget about the tires....use the wrong tool for the job,
> and you'll always get bad results...


That's a part of it to be sure, but even snow tires would not help the
Honda Pilot much. The problem with the Pilot is that often by the time
the AWD engages it's too late for AWD. I had really considered a Pilot
to replace the 4Runner eventually, as the 4Runner is a rough ride with
poor rear seat space. Unlikely to happen after witnessing all the issues
with Honda's AWD system.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2011, 11:58 am
Gary
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Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?


Hey Elmo, this is Gary, Harvey's "repo guy" as they call in me
family-friendly settings.

Are you going to keep ****in' around on usenet all day long or are you
ever going to pay your invoice? With all the interest that has
accrued, its hitting the seven figure range and he wants his money.

Looking at your total assets, I'm getting the impression you are badly
underwater on this one. We may have to put you to work washing dishes
if you don't pay up soon. If you don't show up for work, then comes
"stage 2 collection tactics" and trust me you don't want those ya
****in cunt.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2011, 12:10 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: CR-V 4 Wheel Drive: Why Not AWD ?

In article <dl5k77heel0d90v6poiurgg5fnvv4marog@4ax.com>,
Gary <nuddaone@bitesit.com> wrote:

> Hey Elmo, this is Gary, Harvey's "repo guy" as they call in me
> family-friendly settings.


<snort> Wow, Harvey, you're truly that whacked out, eh?
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