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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01 Oct 2006, 11:35 am
oket
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Default 2006 Honda Civic DX-G Throttle-by-wire

I got a manual transmission 2006 Civic DX-G at the end of May, and have
since put on over 10500 Km. During that time, I have averaged 6.87
Litres/100 Km on the whole 10500 Km, 5.71 on a 3000 Km road trip and as
low as 5.24 on some sections of the road trip. So I certainly have no
problems with the gas mileage.

However, since I first got the car the throttle has produced a slight
jump between acceleration and deceleration (feels like an automatic
transmission shifting), rather than the smooth ability to set a speed
that I have been used to on other cars (all non-Honda).

You notice this the most trying to maintain a steady speed on downhill
sections. Backing off on the throttle slightly to maintain speed results
in a slight notching of the engine into engine braking. As the speed
drops, a slight increase in the throttle, to maintain speed, results in
a slight jump in the engine, and the speed rises too high. There appears
to be a small area of the travel of the throttle so that slight changes
in the throttle position do not change the engine speed, at a constant
load, but moving past this point will jump the power up or down (sort of
like a point of histerysis in the power curve).

During the road trip I noticed that it was difficult to maintain speed
as terrain changed, and slight changes in slope, insufficient to require
engine braking to hold speed down, could have significant changes in
road speed, if you were not continually watching the speedometer, in the
range of more than + or minus 10 Km per hour at a road speed of around
100 Km per hour. This required a higher driver attention load to stay
around the speed I wanted to be going. I saw a lot less of the scenery
than I would have in any other car I have had.

The questions I raise are:

1. Should the throttle have this "shifting" effect, or should it be a
smooth transition of more or less power.

2. Should the car speed range through such a wide range without constant
attention, with slope changes small enough to not really be noticable to
the driver?

And if this effect is not normal, what could be done about it. I have
already mentioned this to the dealer, who had it road tested, and
indicated that it was normal for a manual transmission.

Tom
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01 Oct 2006, 12:09 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2006 Honda Civic DX-G Throttle-by-wire

oket wrote:
> I got a manual transmission 2006 Civic DX-G at the end of May, and have
> since put on over 10500 Km. During that time, I have averaged 6.87
> Litres/100 Km on the whole 10500 Km, 5.71 on a 3000 Km road trip and as
> low as 5.24 on some sections of the road trip. So I certainly have no
> problems with the gas mileage.
>
> However, since I first got the car the throttle has produced a slight
> jump between acceleration and deceleration (feels like an automatic
> transmission shifting), rather than the smooth ability to set a speed
> that I have been used to on other cars (all non-Honda).
>
> You notice this the most trying to maintain a steady speed on downhill
> sections. Backing off on the throttle slightly to maintain speed results
> in a slight notching of the engine into engine braking. As the speed
> drops, a slight increase in the throttle, to maintain speed, results in
> a slight jump in the engine, and the speed rises too high. There appears
> to be a small area of the travel of the throttle so that slight changes
> in the throttle position do not change the engine speed, at a constant
> load, but moving past this point will jump the power up or down (sort of
> like a point of histerysis in the power curve).
>
> During the road trip I noticed that it was difficult to maintain speed
> as terrain changed, and slight changes in slope, insufficient to require
> engine braking to hold speed down, could have significant changes in
> road speed, if you were not continually watching the speedometer, in the
> range of more than + or minus 10 Km per hour at a road speed of around
> 100 Km per hour. This required a higher driver attention load to stay
> around the speed I wanted to be going. I saw a lot less of the scenery
> than I would have in any other car I have had.
>
> The questions I raise are:
>
> 1. Should the throttle have this "shifting" effect, or should it be a
> smooth transition of more or less power.
>
> 2. Should the car speed range through such a wide range without constant
> attention, with slope changes small enough to not really be noticable to
> the driver?
>
> And if this effect is not normal, what could be done about it. I have
> already mentioned this to the dealer, who had it road tested, and
> indicated that it was normal for a manual transmission.
>
> Tom


this behavior is mostly normal and not unique to honda. i had the same
on a rental toyota recently, and it's a pita. but here's the deal:
modern cars are set to run for maximum economy. that means shutting off
fuel delivery entirely when coasting above a minimum speed. if you're
only just coasting, you're going to be on the edge of the
coast/not-coast logic control in the ecu, hence the on/off fuel delivery
you're experiencing. short of reverting to an old-school honda, i don't
believe there's much you can do about it. it may be that there's a
software upgrade available for your car, so check with your dealer, but
if it's not on the bug list, it won't be fixed. the way to get it onto
the bug list is to keep taking it back to the dealer.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01 Oct 2006, 05:59 pm
user@domain.invalid
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2006 Honda Civic DX-G Throttle-by-wire

jim beam wrote:
> oket wrote:
>
>> I got a manual transmission 2006 Civic DX-G at the end of May, and
>> have since put on over 10500 Km. During that time, I have averaged
>> 6.87 Litres/100 Km on the whole 10500 Km, 5.71 on a 3000 Km road trip
>> and as low as 5.24 on some sections of the road trip. So I certainly
>> have no problems with the gas mileage.
>>
>> However, since I first got the car the throttle has produced a slight
>> jump between acceleration and deceleration (feels like an automatic
>> transmission shifting), rather than the smooth ability to set a speed
>> that I have been used to on other cars (all non-Honda).
>>
>> You notice this the most trying to maintain a steady speed on downhill
>> sections. Backing off on the throttle slightly to maintain speed
>> results in a slight notching of the engine into engine braking. As the
>> speed drops, a slight increase in the throttle, to maintain speed,
>> results in a slight jump in the engine, and the speed rises too high.
>> There appears to be a small area of the travel of the throttle so that
>> slight changes in the throttle position do not change the engine
>> speed, at a constant load, but moving past this point will jump the
>> power up or down (sort of like a point of histerysis in the power curve).
>>
>> During the road trip I noticed that it was difficult to maintain speed
>> as terrain changed, and slight changes in slope, insufficient to
>> require engine braking to hold speed down, could have significant
>> changes in road speed, if you were not continually watching the
>> speedometer, in the range of more than + or minus 10 Km per hour at a
>> road speed of around 100 Km per hour. This required a higher driver
>> attention load to stay around the speed I wanted to be going. I saw a
>> lot less of the scenery than I would have in any other car I have had.
>>
>> The questions I raise are:
>>
>> 1. Should the throttle have this "shifting" effect, or should it be a
>> smooth transition of more or less power.
>>
>> 2. Should the car speed range through such a wide range without
>> constant attention, with slope changes small enough to not really be
>> noticable to the driver?
>>
>> And if this effect is not normal, what could be done about it. I have
>> already mentioned this to the dealer, who had it road tested, and
>> indicated that it was normal for a manual transmission.
>>
>> Tom

>
>
> this behavior is mostly normal and not unique to honda. i had the same
> on a rental toyota recently, and it's a pita. but here's the deal:
> modern cars are set to run for maximum economy. that means shutting off
> fuel delivery entirely when coasting above a minimum speed. if you're
> only just coasting, you're going to be on the edge of the
> coast/not-coast logic control in the ecu, hence the on/off fuel delivery
> you're experiencing. short of reverting to an old-school honda, i don't
> believe there's much you can do about it. it may be that there's a
> software upgrade available for your car, so check with your dealer, but
> if it's not on the bug list, it won't be fixed. the way to get it onto
> the bug list is to keep taking it back to the dealer.


Thanks for the information. I will probably pursue it a bit more, but
other than this the car has been fine (a few minor fit and finish glitches).

Tom
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02 Oct 2006, 02:22 am
Joe LaVigne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2006 Honda Civic DX-G Throttle-by-wire

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 16:35:16 GMT, oket wrote:

>
> And if this effect is not normal, what could be done about it. I have
> already mentioned this to the dealer, who had it road tested, and
> indicated that it was normal for a manual transmission.


Doesn't sound normal to me. I certainly have not noticed such effects in
my 06 Civic Si... Perhaps take the tech with you for a ride, and point
out what you are talking about when it happens...

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com
http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 10/2/2006 3:21:09 AM
Tobacconist Brick and Mortar Database: http://bam.tobaccocellar.org/
I don't have all the answers. I haven't yet heard all the questions...
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02 Oct 2006, 02:23 am
Joe LaVigne
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2006 Honda Civic DX-G Throttle-by-wire

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 10:09:26 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> oket wrote:
>> I got a manual transmission 2006 Civic DX-G at the end of May, and have
>> since put on over 10500 Km. During that time, I have averaged 6.87
>> Litres/100 Km on the whole 10500 Km, 5.71 on a 3000 Km road trip and as
>> low as 5.24 on some sections of the road trip. So I certainly have no
>> problems with the gas mileage.
>>
>> However, since I first got the car the throttle has produced a slight
>> jump between acceleration and deceleration (feels like an automatic
>> transmission shifting), rather than the smooth ability to set a speed
>> that I have been used to on other cars (all non-Honda).
>>
>> You notice this the most trying to maintain a steady speed on downhill
>> sections. Backing off on the throttle slightly to maintain speed results
>> in a slight notching of the engine into engine braking. As the speed
>> drops, a slight increase in the throttle, to maintain speed, results in
>> a slight jump in the engine, and the speed rises too high. There appears
>> to be a small area of the travel of the throttle so that slight changes
>> in the throttle position do not change the engine speed, at a constant
>> load, but moving past this point will jump the power up or down (sort of
>> like a point of histerysis in the power curve).
>>
>> During the road trip I noticed that it was difficult to maintain speed
>> as terrain changed, and slight changes in slope, insufficient to require
>> engine braking to hold speed down, could have significant changes in
>> road speed, if you were not continually watching the speedometer, in the
>> range of more than + or minus 10 Km per hour at a road speed of around
>> 100 Km per hour. This required a higher driver attention load to stay
>> around the speed I wanted to be going. I saw a lot less of the scenery
>> than I would have in any other car I have had.
>>
>> The questions I raise are:
>>
>> 1. Should the throttle have this "shifting" effect, or should it be a
>> smooth transition of more or less power.
>>
>> 2. Should the car speed range through such a wide range without constant
>> attention, with slope changes small enough to not really be noticable to
>> the driver?
>>
>> And if this effect is not normal, what could be done about it. I have
>> already mentioned this to the dealer, who had it road tested, and
>> indicated that it was normal for a manual transmission.
>>
>> Tom

>
> this behavior is mostly normal and not unique to honda. i had the same
> on a rental toyota recently, and it's a pita. but here's the deal:
> modern cars are set to run for maximum economy. that means shutting off
> fuel delivery entirely when coasting above a minimum speed. if you're
> only just coasting, you're going to be on the edge of the
> coast/not-coast logic control in the ecu, hence the on/off fuel delivery
> you're experiencing. short of reverting to an old-school honda, i don't
> believe there's much you can do about it. it may be that there's a
> software upgrade available for your car, so check with your dealer, but
> if it's not on the bug list, it won't be fixed. the way to get it onto
> the bug list is to keep taking it back to the dealer.


That actually makes sense, and wouldn't be noticed on the Si, due to the
lower considerations for fuel economy...

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com
http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 10/2/2006 3:22:44 AM
Tobacconist Brick and Mortar Database: http://bam.tobaccocellar.org/

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the only
one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
--Wernher von Braun
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