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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 29 Sep 2006, 01:33 pm
sharx333
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Default Bad Timing Belt?

Hello,

The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old,
and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I notice it had
deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap between the teeth.
The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks "segmented".
They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's thickness.

I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really bad, how
could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still relatively
fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would really like to
prevent it next time.

Thanks in advance..

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 29 Sep 2006, 01:58 pm
Eric
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Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?

sharx333 wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old,
> and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I notice it had
> deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap between the teeth.
> The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks "segmented".
> They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's thickness.
>
> I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really bad, how
> could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still relatively
> fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would really like to
> prevent it next time.
>
> Thanks in advance..


Are you sure you're referring to the timing belt? Here's an illustrated
index of the timing belt from the factory service manual.
http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...l/pdf/6-18.pdf
The reason I have to ask is that I've never seen a timing belt cracked as
badly as you describe. If it was, then it would probably break in very
short order and the car would no longer be running. Most timing belts fail
well before then become cracked as you have described and that is after
they've been in the car >90K miles though some do fail prematurely however
that's rare.

Eric
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 29 Sep 2006, 03:19 pm
nm5k@wt.net
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?


sharx333 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old,
> and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I notice it had
> deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap between the teeth.
> The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks "segmented".
> They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's thickness.
>
> I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really bad, how
> could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still relatively
> fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would really like to
> prevent it next time.
>
> Thanks in advance..


Sure you don't mean one of the serpentine belts for the alternator,
etc...?? Normally, the timing belt is covered and you can't see
it. I would change any belt that was that bad, timing or serpentine...
Slight cracks in a serpentine belt are ok, but if they are half way
deep,
I'd change it. That belt might run the water pump, "not sure on that
model"
and losing it is the last thing you want to do. Also, belts always fail
at the
worst possible time due to "Ruprects Law".
MK

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 29 Sep 2006, 08:57 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?

sharx333 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The timing belt on my '95 Civic ESi (1.6L SOHC) is about 4 years old,
> and was used for less than 40K kms (25K miles). But I notice it had
> deep cracks on the outer (smooth) side, at each gap between the teeth.
> The cracks are mostly very straight, and so the belt looks "segmented".
> They're also deep, going about halfway into the belt's thickness.
>
> I have a feeling this isn't normal. Is it? If it's really bad, how
> could it possibly have gotten this bad, when it's still relatively
> fresh and was installed by the Honda dealer? I would really like to
> prevent it next time.
>
> Thanks in advance..
>


if that were my timing belt, i'd drop everything else i was doing and
fix it immediately. seriously. sounds like the dealer either didn't
change the belt at all or that it was installed too tight. whatever the
reason, that is a very sick belt and cannot be trusted another inch.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 29 Sep 2006, 10:03 pm
sharx333
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?


I'm afraid that's exactly the belt I'm referring to. This model is a
"domesticated" version of the EX, with basically the same engine
(D16z6).

I wouldn't even have seen the cracks if the mechanic hadn't pointed it
out when I was having the tires rotated. When I got home, I removed the
valve cover and belt cover, and saw the cracks. So this is bad, huh? I
wonder what could have caused it... I hear these things normally last a
long time.

Thanks for the replies.



Eric wrote:

> Are you sure you're referring to the timing belt? Here's an illustrated
> index of the timing belt from the factory service manual.
> http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...l/pdf/6-18.pdf
> The reason I have to ask is that I've never seen a timing belt cracked as
> badly as you describe. If it was, then it would probably break in very
> short order and the car would no longer be running. Most timing belts fail
> well before then become cracked as you have described and that is after
> they've been in the car >90K miles though some do fail prematurely however
> that's rare.
>
> Eric


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 29 Sep 2006, 10:27 pm
Robert Barr
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?

Here's an illustrated
> index of the timing belt from the factory service manual.
> http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...l/pdf/6-18.pdf



.... odd that they refer to the drive / driven components as pulleys
instead of sprockets.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 30 Sep 2006, 12:15 am
sharx333
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Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?


"Ruprect's Law" ??

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 30 Sep 2006, 12:28 am
Jim Yanik
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Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?

"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1159581830.879389.312200@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

>
> I'm afraid that's exactly the belt I'm referring to. This model is a
> "domesticated" version of the EX, with basically the same engine
> (D16z6).
>
> I wouldn't even have seen the cracks if the mechanic hadn't pointed it
> out when I was having the tires rotated.


How'd the mechanic see it if there's a cover over it?
What was he doing under the hood while rotating tires?


> When I got home, I removed
> the valve cover and belt cover, and saw the cracks. So this is bad,
> huh? I wonder what could have caused it... I hear these things
> normally last a long time.
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
>
>
> Eric wrote:
>
>> Are you sure you're referring to the timing belt? Here's an
>> illustrated index of the timing belt from the factory service manual.
>> http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...anual/pdf/6-18.
>> pdf The reason I have to ask is that I've never seen a timing belt
>> cracked as badly as you describe. If it was, then it would probably
>> break in very short order and the car would no longer be running.
>> Most timing belts fail well before then become cracked as you have
>> described and that is after they've been in the car >90K miles though
>> some do fail prematurely however that's rare.
>>
>> Eric

>
>




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 30 Sep 2006, 07:06 am
sharx333
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?

Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to
take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he
basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. I was
skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly spaced
apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt cover
off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a quality
for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind.

Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the posts
and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to take
that stubborn "special bolt" off...





Jim Yanik wrote:
> "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1159581830.879389.312200@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
>
> >
> > I'm afraid that's exactly the belt I'm referring to. This model is a
> > "domesticated" version of the EX, with basically the same engine
> > (D16z6).
> >
> > I wouldn't even have seen the cracks if the mechanic hadn't pointed it
> > out when I was having the tires rotated.

>
> How'd the mechanic see it if there's a cover over it?
> What was he doing under the hood while rotating tires?
>
>
> > When I got home, I removed
> > the valve cover and belt cover, and saw the cracks. So this is bad,
> > huh? I wonder what could have caused it... I hear these things
> > normally last a long time.
> >
> > Thanks for the replies.
> >
> >
> >
> > Eric wrote:
> >
> >> Are you sure you're referring to the timing belt? Here's an
> >> illustrated index of the timing belt from the factory service manual.
> >> http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...anual/pdf/6-18.
> >> pdf The reason I have to ask is that I've never seen a timing belt
> >> cracked as badly as you describe. If it was, then it would probably
> >> break in very short order and the car would no longer be running.
> >> Most timing belts fail well before then become cracked as you have
> >> described and that is after they've been in the car >90K miles though
> >> some do fail prematurely however that's rare.
> >>
> >> Eric

> >
> >

>
>
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 30 Sep 2006, 09:17 am
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Bad Timing Belt?

"sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159614360.868135.22190@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Hello jim. It was on a lift for the tire rotation, and we decided to
> take it up a little higher to check under it. Using a flashlight, he
> basically saw just the lower section of the timing belt/pulley. I was
> skeptical too, at first, thinking the grooves were too regularly spaced
> apart. But when I got home and took the valve cover and belt cover
> off... Possibly this belt was put on *too* tight, or was of a quality
> for which the word "aftermarket" is too kind.
>
> Anyway I would love to do this myself, so I'm looking through the posts
> and reading the service manual, I still can't figure out how to take
> that stubborn "special bolt" off...
>
>

Check out the options here: http://tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html
As TeGGeR says, an impact wrench is the overall best way. If you can rent a
hefty electric one with a socket to match you should be okay. Note that
regular sockets must not be used with an impact wrench as the brittle
regular sockets can explode. In any event, don't blow off the need for eye
protection.

It can be a challenge, but it can be done. Besides the special techniques, I
think the special bolt requires special vocabulary. But once it moves the
rest is downhill.

Mike


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