Honda Car Forum

Incorrect Valve Adjustment Fallout...

I recently had my 90k service performed on my Honda Civic EX 2000 at a
Firestone Complete Auto Care. This included spark plug replacement,
ignition wires replacement, fuel system tune up, valve adjustment, etc.
As soon as I left with my car I noticed something was definitely wrong
with my Honda. The RPMs were sporadic and would go to just above
bottoming out at the first stop light I reached. I was concerned about
the vibrations but thought it would subside and the RPMs would return
to normal levels, but is only continued and became more frequent. After
a month I brought my car back to Firestone to explain the problems I
was experiencing and they said that the car checked out and there was
nothing they can do without an engine light coming on. The vibrations
only got worse and within a week a check engine light went on. I
brought the car back again and Firestone finally took my car to a Honda
dealership, which had to re-due the value adjustment because it was out
of spec. They also said the O2 sensor error was showing up and that is
why the check engine light came on. I have never had a problem with my
Honda before and none of these problems existed before the 90k service
was performed.

I need to know if the O2 error could be contributed to the incorrect
vale adjustment (excess vibrations) and if there is anything else I
should be looking out for because of the incorrect work.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Ben Jones

benjaminjones1@gmail.com wrote in
news:1159136459.653543.59480@d34g2000cwd.googlegro ups.com:

> Incorrect Valve Adjustment Fallout...
>
> I recently had my 90k service performed on my Honda Civic EX 2000 at a
> Firestone Complete Auto Care.




Sorry to say, but Sears and Firestone have an extremely bad reputation.
don't do that again.



> This included spark plug replacement,
> ignition wires replacement,




They didn't use OEM, that's 100% certain.



> fuel system tune up,



What? What exactly what did they sell you and why? On the surface, this
sounds like a bumpf-type excuse to boost your bill.



> valve adjustment, etc.
> As soon as I left with my car I noticed something was definitely wrong
> with my Honda. The RPMs were sporadic and would go to just above
> bottoming out at the first stop light I reached. I was concerned about
> the vibrations but thought it would subside and the RPMs would return
> to normal levels, but is only continued and became more frequent.
> After a month I brought my car back to Firestone




Bad decision on two counts: 1) Leaving it for a month. 2) Bringing it to
Firestone. I would have brought it in as soon as I could have spared the
time, or less than a week.



> to explain the
> problems I was experiencing and they said that the car checked out and
> there was nothing they can do without an engine light coming on. The
> vibrations only got worse and within a week a check engine light went
> on. I brought the car back again and Firestone finally took my car to
> a Honda dealership, which had to re-due the value adjustment because
> it was out of spec. They also said the O2 sensor error was showing up
> and that is why the check engine light came on.




That is correct. The MIL can illuminate with a number of O2 sensor
errors.



> I have never had a
> problem with my Honda before and none of these problems existed before
> the 90k service was performed.
>
> I need to know if the O2 error could be contributed to the incorrect
> vale adjustment (excess vibrations) and if there is anything else I
> should be looking out for because of the incorrect work.


It is unlikely (but not impossible...) that the oxygen sensor error had
to do with the valve adjustment.

Do you know the EXACT alphanumeric numeric code that was recorded? This
is critical. Most O2 sensor failures these days have to do with the
heater circuit. If it does not say on your invoice/work order, call the
dealer and ASK. They OWE it to you if you ask.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

<benjaminjones1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159136459.653543.59480@d34g2000cwd.googlegro ups.com...
> Incorrect Valve Adjustment Fallout...
>
> I recently had my 90k service performed on my Honda Civic EX 2000 at a
> Firestone Complete Auto Care. This included spark plug replacement,
> ignition wires replacement, fuel system tune up, valve adjustment, etc.
> As soon as I left with my car I noticed something was definitely wrong
> with my Honda. The RPMs were sporadic and would go to just above
> bottoming out at the first stop light I reached. I was concerned about
> the vibrations but thought it would subside and the RPMs would return
> to normal levels, but is only continued and became more frequent. After
> a month I brought my car back to Firestone to explain the problems I
> was experiencing and they said that the car checked out and there was
> nothing they can do without an engine light coming on. The vibrations
> only got worse and within a week a check engine light went on. I
> brought the car back again and Firestone finally took my car to a Honda
> dealership, which had to re-due the value adjustment because it was out
> of spec. They also said the O2 sensor error was showing up and that is
> why the check engine light came on. I have never had a problem with my
> Honda before and none of these problems existed before the 90k service
> was performed.

I would think that a valve adjustment would be alien to shops like
Firestone. Unless you do it yourself (and you know what are you are doing),
really think you are better off with your local Honda dealer. In fact, I
recollect in my motorcycle days, tuning your bike yourself was preferable
even to dealing with your local Honda dealer.

>
> I need to know if the O2 error could be contributed to the incorrect
> vale adjustment (excess vibrations) and if there is anything else I
> should be looking out for because of the incorrect work.
>
> I would greatly appreciate any help.
>
> Ben Jones
>

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns9848BE6E0916tegger@207.14.116.130:


>
> Do you know the EXACT alphanumeric numeric code that was recorded? This
> is critical. Most O2 sensor failures these days have to do with the
> heater circuit.

I wonder why the O2 sensor needs a heater? It's already in the hot exhaust.
Perhaps to get the sensor up to operating temp quicker? (to shorten the
open loop time)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On 24 Sep 2006 15:20:59 -0700, benjaminjones1@gmail.com wrote:

>Incorrect Valve Adjustment Fallout...
>
>I recently had my 90k service performed on my Honda Civic EX 2000 at a
>Firestone Complete Auto Care. This included spark plug replacement,
>ignition wires replacement, fuel system tune up, valve adjustment, etc.
>As soon as I left with my car I noticed something was definitely wrong
>with my Honda. The RPMs were sporadic and would go to just above
>bottoming out at the first stop light I reached. I was concerned about
>the vibrations but thought it would subside and the RPMs would return
>to normal levels, but is only continued and became more frequent. After
>a month I brought my car back to Firestone to explain the problems I
>was experiencing and they said that the car checked out and there was
>nothing they can do without an engine light coming on. The vibrations
>only got worse and within a week a check engine light went on. I
>brought the car back again and Firestone finally took my car to a Honda
>dealership, which had to re-due the value adjustment because it was out
>of spec. They also said the O2 sensor error was showing up and that is
>why the check engine light came on. I have never had a problem with my
>Honda before and none of these problems existed before the 90k service
>was performed.
>
>I need to know if the O2 error could be contributed to the incorrect
>vale adjustment (excess vibrations) and if there is anything else I
>should be looking out for because of the incorrect work.
>
>I would greatly appreciate any help.
>
>Ben Jones

How long did they have the car when they did the valve adjustment?
The engine has to cool for hours before you can do the adjustment. If
they just drove it hot into the bay and did it, you know it was
botched for that reason alone.

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9848C1F781787jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns9848BE6E0916tegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>
>>
>> Do you know the EXACT alphanumeric numeric code that was recorded?
>> This is critical. Most O2 sensor failures these days have to do with
>> the heater circuit.
>
> I wonder why the O2 sensor needs a heater? It's already in the hot
> exhaust. Perhaps to get the sensor up to operating temp quicker? (to
> shorten the open loop time)



The heater is intended not only to ensure fast warmup, but to make
certain the O2 sensor always remains above 750F.

The oxygen sensor needs to be at 750F to be fully operational. Even
though combustion chamber temperatures are about 2,100F, it is possible
under certain circumstances for the exhaust temperature to drop below
750F by the time it reaches the sensor. This would result in degraded
performance and increased emissions.

In addition, EPA regulations force the newest cars to use a variant of
the oxygen sensor called an "air-fuel ratio sensor". This particular
design requires to be at 1,500F before it is fully functional, and that
temperature is impossible to maintain without a heater.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

benjaminjones1@gmail.com wrote:

> Incorrect Valve Adjustment Fallout...

>
> I need to know if the O2 error could be contributed to the incorrect
> vale adjustment (excess vibrations) and if there is anything else I
> should be looking out for because of the incorrect work.

Betcha somebody used a silicone lube or cleaner on the intake system
and it got on the end of the oxygen sensor and corrupted it. bob

The check engine light code was PO-131 which is 0-2 Bank 1 Senor 1...
does this help?

TeGGeR® wrote:
> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns9848C1F781787jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86:
>
> > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> > news:Xns9848BE6E0916tegger@207.14.116.130:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Do you know the EXACT alphanumeric numeric code that was recorded?
> >> This is critical. Most O2 sensor failures these days have to do with
> >> the heater circuit.
> >
> > I wonder why the O2 sensor needs a heater? It's already in the hot
> > exhaust. Perhaps to get the sensor up to operating temp quicker? (to
> > shorten the open loop time)
>
>
>
> The heater is intended not only to ensure fast warmup, but to make
> certain the O2 sensor always remains above 750F.
>
> The oxygen sensor needs to be at 750F to be fully operational. Even
> though combustion chamber temperatures are about 2,100F, it is possible
> under certain circumstances for the exhaust temperature to drop below
> 750F by the time it reaches the sensor. This would result in degraded
> performance and increased emissions.
>
> In addition, EPA regulations force the newest cars to use a variant of
> the oxygen sensor called an "air-fuel ratio sensor". This particular
> design requires to be at 1,500F before it is fully functional, and that
> temperature is impossible to maintain without a heater.
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

benjaminjones1@gmail.com wrote in
news:1159213370.777901.50720@e3g2000cwe.googlegrou ps.com:

>> > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
>> > news:Xns9848BE6E0916tegger@207.14.116.130:
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Do you know the EXACT alphanumeric numeric code that was recorded?
>> >> This is critical. Most O2 sensor failures these days have to do
>> >> with the heater circuit.
>
>
>
> The check engine light code was PO-131 which is 0-2 Bank 1 Senor 1...
> does this help?



That's P-zero, not P-oh.

The code is P0131, which according to Honda is:
Primary Heated Oxygen Sensor (Primary HO2S) (Sensor 1) Circuit Low
Voltage

The sensor between the exhaust manifold and the cat is returning voltage
lower than it should be sending. If the wiring or connector is not
damaged or corroded, it sounds like you need a new oxygen sensor.

You have not indicated 4-cylinder or V6. If a V6, this is the sensor
attached to the front bank.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Is there anyway that the O2 problem might be a result of my incorrect
valve adjustment b/c it happened soon afterwards? If not should I be
concerned with any other problems that might come after driving with
the incorrect valve adjustment for a month? My Honda is a 4-cylinder.

Thanks again for your help.

TeGGeR® wrote:
> benjaminjones1@gmail.com wrote in
> news:1159213370.777901.50720@e3g2000cwe.googlegrou ps.com:
>
> >> > "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> >> > news:Xns9848BE6E0916tegger@207.14.116.130:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Do you know the EXACT alphanumeric numeric code that was recorded?
> >> >> This is critical. Most O2 sensor failures these days have to do
> >> >> with the heater circuit.
> >
> >
> >
> > The check engine light code was PO-131 which is 0-2 Bank 1 Senor 1...
> > does this help?
>
>
>
> That's P-zero, not P-oh.
>
> The code is P0131, which according to Honda is:
> Primary Heated Oxygen Sensor (Primary HO2S) (Sensor 1) Circuit Low
> Voltage
>
> The sensor between the exhaust manifold and the cat is returning voltage
> lower than it should be sending. If the wiring or connector is not
> damaged or corroded, it sounds like you need a new oxygen sensor.
>
> You have not indicated 4-cylinder or V6. If a V6, this is the sensor
> attached to the front bank.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/