Honda Car Forum

Hi,

I thought I would just share with people a small victory ... I think at
least for now. A few months ago my check engine light came on. Took it,
Honda Civic 1999, LX 4 -Dr-Automatic, to White Plains Honda to have
them check it out. Before then panicking and putting in a load of oil
just in case ... had no clue..... $US 105 later, they charged me $US 95
+ tax, it was a loose gas cap. They reset the codes, light is out

Fast forward 2 months, light comes on again. Hmm.... should I pay
another $105 and be told it may be a gas cap..... I read the Honda
Users manual and they say drive it around for another 3 days / cycles
and see if it goes out. Drive around for a three days, no adverse
affects but light still on. I order a Actron CP9175 from Amazon for $US
144.95. This is one of those ODBII reader / scanners.

A week later and the Check engine light is till on. Actron arrives
Saturday. Plug in the Actron an see two codes P1336 and a P1337. These
are honda proprietory codes. P1336 means intermittant misfire or Cental
Speed Fluctuation (the "CSF") sensor failure, i.e. RPM fluctuation
sensor on the blink. P1337 means no signal from CSF sensor. So looked
like had an intermittiant falt then it went all together.

Anyways clear the codes by hitting erase. Cool lights out. Start car
and for a brief 2 seconds light stays off. Then comes on again..... uh
ohhh not good.

So go onto the net, and also look into the Honda Factory manual. For my
Honda it turns out that the CSF sensor is on the left hand side of the
engine bay car near all the belts. Go and take a look. Nothing wrong
there. And besides it is realy really cramped. Everything is cramed in
there. Look again... hey there is a plastic cable run rubbling against
one of the belts. Eeekk the belt has sawn though the outer coveing.
This was the cable to the CFK sensor. Reach down to see and notice a
plastic clip. Push the wire back into the clip. Clear codes restart
engine.

Bingo no light!

Maybe it will hold, maybe it will not. I guess the wire has been worn
half way through by the belt. When I stuffed the wire back into the
clip, what remains still was sufficient to send signal. Maybe the belt
wizzing by was shorting out the signal .... Who knows how long it will
last, the cable housing was ripped up.

So for now anyway novice idiot mechanic 1, Honda Gremlins 0.

Warmest regards, Mike.

<sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159055505.721557.53920@i3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
> Hi,
>
> I thought I would just share with people a small victory ... I think at
> least for now. A few months ago my check engine light came on. Took it,
> Honda Civic 1999, LX 4 -Dr-Automatic, to White Plains Honda to have
> them check it out. Before then panicking and putting in a load of oil
> just in case ... had no clue..... $US 105 later, they charged me $US 95
> + tax, it was a loose gas cap. They reset the codes, light is out
>
> Fast forward 2 months, light comes on again. Hmm.... should I pay
> another $105 and be told it may be a gas cap..... I read the Honda
> Users manual and they say drive it around for another 3 days / cycles
> and see if it goes out. Drive around for a three days, no adverse
> affects but light still on. I order a Actron CP9175 from Amazon for $US
> 144.95. This is one of those ODBII reader / scanners.
>
> A week later and the Check engine light is till on. Actron arrives
> Saturday. Plug in the Actron an see two codes P1336 and a P1337. These
> are honda proprietory codes. P1336 means intermittant misfire or Cental
> Speed Fluctuation (the "CSF") sensor failure, i.e. RPM fluctuation
> sensor on the blink. P1337 means no signal from CSF sensor. So looked
> like had an intermittiant falt then it went all together.
>
> Anyways clear the codes by hitting erase. Cool lights out. Start car
> and for a brief 2 seconds light stays off. Then comes on again..... uh
> ohhh not good.
>
> So go onto the net, and also look into the Honda Factory manual. For my
> Honda it turns out that the CSF sensor is on the left hand side of the
> engine bay car near all the belts. Go and take a look. Nothing wrong
> there. And besides it is realy really cramped. Everything is cramed in
> there. Look again... hey there is a plastic cable run rubbling against
> one of the belts. Eeekk the belt has sawn though the outer coveing.
> This was the cable to the CFK sensor. Reach down to see and notice a
> plastic clip. Push the wire back into the clip. Clear codes restart
> engine.
>
> Bingo no light!
>
> Maybe it will hold, maybe it will not. I guess the wire has been worn
> half way through by the belt. When I stuffed the wire back into the
> clip, what remains still was sufficient to send signal. Maybe the belt
> wizzing by was shorting out the signal .... Who knows how long it will
> last, the cable housing was ripped up.
>
> So for now anyway novice idiot mechanic 1, Honda Gremlins 0.
>
> Warmest regards, Mike.
>

That is a victory! Imagine how much you would have paid for pros to go
through the same thing. They would also have replaced whatever it took to
get rid of hte worn area, because thay couldn't afford the risk of the
problem returning and them having to foot the bill.

Mike

Just make sure you follow this up by doing an inspection on the timing belt
assembly.

My sister's civic had the same thing happen, CEL for no good reason. Then
one day driving along at 80 KPH, and the timing belt snapped. Hello $2000
engine rebuild bill.....

t

Michael Pardee wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>>
>> Warmest regards, Mike.
>
>That is a victory! Imagine how much you would have paid for pros to go
>through the same thing. They would also have replaced whatever it took to
>get rid of hte worn area, because thay couldn't afford the risk of the
>problem returning and them having to foot the bill.
>
>Mike

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi,

> I thought I would just share with people a small victory ... I think at
> least for now.

>...

> Bingo no light!

> So for now anyway novice idiot mechanic 1, Honda Gremlins 0.

> Warmest regards, Mike.

LOL. Good job!

I too am pleased to report another recent VICTORY over the evil gremlins.

Used 92 Accord lit up the dread CE light after ~20 minute's driving.
Code 12 = ERG. Car also hesitated and stuttered at partial load and off
idle. Classic EGR problem, right? Clogged ports and/or flaky valve lift...

Checked / cleaned ports. They were sooty, but free flowing. No
improvement.

Removed EGR valve. (In itself a struggle. The aft bolt was heat seized
and rounded, and with the diaphragm casing overhanging, I couldn't get a
good grip on it with a socket. I just made it rounder.... Finally cut
it with dremel...) Anyhoo, the EGR valve seems to work as advertised.
Lifts at the right vacuum levels, seals when down, the lift sensor
output varies as it should. Hmmmm

Pulled EGR box. Regulator outputs 8inHG. Solenoid opens and closes
cleanly, seals well. Coil not shorted to ground. "This should work."

Pull ECU. Lift sensor signal shows at the correct wire.

En passant, changed plugs / tune up. Found about 1" of oil in the #1
plug port. DOH! Stuttering gone, but CE light still twinkling.

Hot wire solenoid. Apply DC juice when driving and observe output.
Getting only 3 inches, even with much more available on the solenoid
inlet. Recheck for leaks. None. WTF?

Start thinking about the bleed-back circuit in the solenoid. If the
output port is partially clogged, the bleed off will pull down the
output vac level. Look inside output port. Pressed brass metering(?)
jet of some sort. It looks pretty puny and I have nothing to loose,
being about to buy a new Solenoid, so 'screw it!' Drill out the brass
jet. Even using the smallest drill I have, the hole is much bigger, and
potential flow must have gone up by a power of 10 or more. VOILA!!! I
get another 1/2" of lift (all the ECU wants, apparently), and much
improved lift response time. Best of all, NO FRIGGING LIGHT! The car
easily passes smog test. WOOT!

Total cost: $15 for on of those vacuum guage/pump thingamagigies, and
about 5 hours total fiddling.

-Greg

Now increase your status from a novice mechanic by going back and do the
repair right. The wire has to be repaired and the area insulated or moisture
and salt will get in the wire and corrode it. First remove the negative lead
off the battery to prevent damage by shorting the power. If it is a single
wire in the bundle damaged pull it out some and cut it and strip the ends.
Use a butt connector of the correct size to connect the two ends. Use a good
electrical tape to wrap the area several times to keep out moisture. Now
make sure the cable is in it's clamps and inspect all other cables for
proper routing. Now you can pat yourself on the back.


<sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159055505.721557.53920@i3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
> Hi,
>
> I thought I would just share with people a small victory ... I think at
> least for now. A few months ago my check engine light came on. Took it,
> Honda Civic 1999, LX 4 -Dr-Automatic, to White Plains Honda to have
> them check it out. Before then panicking and putting in a load of oil
> just in case ... had no clue..... $US 105 later, they charged me $US 95
> + tax, it was a loose gas cap. They reset the codes, light is out
>
> Fast forward 2 months, light comes on again. Hmm.... should I pay
> another $105 and be told it may be a gas cap..... I read the Honda
> Users manual and they say drive it around for another 3 days / cycles
> and see if it goes out. Drive around for a three days, no adverse
> affects but light still on. I order a Actron CP9175 from Amazon for $US
> 144.95. This is one of those ODBII reader / scanners.
>
> A week later and the Check engine light is till on. Actron arrives
> Saturday. Plug in the Actron an see two codes P1336 and a P1337. These
> are honda proprietory codes. P1336 means intermittant misfire or Cental
> Speed Fluctuation (the "CSF") sensor failure, i.e. RPM fluctuation
> sensor on the blink. P1337 means no signal from CSF sensor. So looked
> like had an intermittiant falt then it went all together.
>
> Anyways clear the codes by hitting erase. Cool lights out. Start car
> and for a brief 2 seconds light stays off. Then comes on again..... uh
> ohhh not good.
>
> So go onto the net, and also look into the Honda Factory manual. For my
> Honda it turns out that the CSF sensor is on the left hand side of the
> engine bay car near all the belts. Go and take a look. Nothing wrong
> there. And besides it is realy really cramped. Everything is cramed in
> there. Look again... hey there is a plastic cable run rubbling against
> one of the belts. Eeekk the belt has sawn though the outer coveing.
> This was the cable to the CFK sensor. Reach down to see and notice a
> plastic clip. Push the wire back into the clip. Clear codes restart
> engine.
>
> Bingo no light!
>
> Maybe it will hold, maybe it will not. I guess the wire has been worn
> half way through by the belt. When I stuffed the wire back into the
> clip, what remains still was sufficient to send signal. Maybe the belt
> wizzing by was shorting out the signal .... Who knows how long it will
> last, the cable housing was ripped up.
>
> So for now anyway novice idiot mechanic 1, Honda Gremlins 0.
>
> Warmest regards, Mike.
>

I have a CP9175, and it's worth its weight in gold. Went in with my cousin
and split the cost.

Now for your problem. I would go back to the dealer and explain this and
ask for my damn money back since they DID NOT solve the problem. Hell, they
probably just reset the code and sent you on your way.

G-Man


<sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159055505.721557.53920@i3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
> Hi,
>
> I thought I would just share with people a small victory ... I think at
> least for now. A few months ago my check engine light came on. Took it,
> Honda Civic 1999, LX 4 -Dr-Automatic, to White Plains Honda to have
> them check it out. Before then panicking and putting in a load of oil
> just in case ... had no clue..... $US 105 later, they charged me $US 95
> + tax, it was a loose gas cap. They reset the codes, light is out
>
> Fast forward 2 months, light comes on again. Hmm.... should I pay
> another $105 and be told it may be a gas cap..... I read the Honda
> Users manual and they say drive it around for another 3 days / cycles
> and see if it goes out. Drive around for a three days, no adverse
> affects but light still on. I order a Actron CP9175 from Amazon for $US
> 144.95. This is one of those ODBII reader / scanners.
>
> A week later and the Check engine light is till on. Actron arrives
> Saturday. Plug in the Actron an see two codes P1336 and a P1337. These
> are honda proprietory codes. P1336 means intermittant misfire or Cental
> Speed Fluctuation (the "CSF") sensor failure, i.e. RPM fluctuation
> sensor on the blink. P1337 means no signal from CSF sensor. So looked
> like had an intermittiant falt then it went all together.
>
> Anyways clear the codes by hitting erase. Cool lights out. Start car
> and for a brief 2 seconds light stays off. Then comes on again..... uh
> ohhh not good.
>
> So go onto the net, and also look into the Honda Factory manual. For my
> Honda it turns out that the CSF sensor is on the left hand side of the
> engine bay car near all the belts. Go and take a look. Nothing wrong
> there. And besides it is realy really cramped. Everything is cramed in
> there. Look again... hey there is a plastic cable run rubbling against
> one of the belts. Eeekk the belt has sawn though the outer coveing.
> This was the cable to the CFK sensor. Reach down to see and notice a
> plastic clip. Push the wire back into the clip. Clear codes restart
> engine.
>
> Bingo no light!
>
> Maybe it will hold, maybe it will not. I guess the wire has been worn
> half way through by the belt. When I stuffed the wire back into the
> clip, what remains still was sufficient to send signal. Maybe the belt
> wizzing by was shorting out the signal .... Who knows how long it will
> last, the cable housing was ripped up.
>
> So for now anyway novice idiot mechanic 1, Honda Gremlins 0.
>
> Warmest regards, Mike.
>

Hi Woody,

Thanks for your tip. I think you are right. Problem is the access. I
would love to get down there and fix it up correctly. I just cannot get
at the wire. In the Honda factory manual, the CDF / CKF sensor
replacement requires the removal of the engine cover, and quite a few
other bits and pieces, this then gives you the required access...

I think if it does not hold, then then I will have to get it fixed
professionally .... unless you know of some other trick..... I am just
a normal basically ... have no clue ... sort of owner.

Best, Mike.

Woody wrote:
> Now increase your status from a novice mechanic by going back and do the
> repair right. The wire has to be repaired and the area insulated or moisture
> and salt will get in the wire and corrode it. First remove the negative lead
> off the battery to prevent damage by shorting the power. If it is a single
> wire in the bundle damaged pull it out some and cut it and strip the ends.
> Use a butt connector of the correct size to connect the two ends. Use a good
> electrical tape to wrap the area several times to keep out moisture. Now
> make sure the cable is in it's clamps and inspect all other cables for
> proper routing. Now you can pat yourself on the back.
>
>
> <sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1159055505.721557.53920@i3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I thought I would just share with people a small victory ... I think at
> > least for now. A few months ago my check engine light came on. Took it,
> > Honda Civic 1999, LX 4 -Dr-Automatic, to White Plains Honda to have
> > them check it out. Before then panicking and putting in a load of oil
> > just in case ... had no clue..... $US 105 later, they charged me $US 95
> > + tax, it was a loose gas cap. They reset the codes, light is out
> >
> > Fast forward 2 months, light comes on again. Hmm.... should I pay
> > another $105 and be told it may be a gas cap..... I read the Honda
> > Users manual and they say drive it around for another 3 days / cycles
> > and see if it goes out. Drive around for a three days, no adverse
> > affects but light still on. I order a Actron CP9175 from Amazon for $US
> > 144.95. This is one of those ODBII reader / scanners.
> >
> > A week later and the Check engine light is till on. Actron arrives
> > Saturday. Plug in the Actron an see two codes P1336 and a P1337. These
> > are honda proprietory codes. P1336 means intermittant misfire or Cental
> > Speed Fluctuation (the "CSF") sensor failure, i.e. RPM fluctuation
> > sensor on the blink. P1337 means no signal from CSF sensor. So looked
> > like had an intermittiant falt then it went all together.
> >
> > Anyways clear the codes by hitting erase. Cool lights out. Start car
> > and for a brief 2 seconds light stays off. Then comes on again..... uh
> > ohhh not good.
> >
> > So go onto the net, and also look into the Honda Factory manual. For my
> > Honda it turns out that the CSF sensor is on the left hand side of the
> > engine bay car near all the belts. Go and take a look. Nothing wrong
> > there. And besides it is realy really cramped. Everything is cramed in
> > there. Look again... hey there is a plastic cable run rubbling against
> > one of the belts. Eeekk the belt has sawn though the outer coveing.
> > This was the cable to the CFK sensor. Reach down to see and notice a
> > plastic clip. Push the wire back into the clip. Clear codes restart
> > engine.
> >
> > Bingo no light!
> >
> > Maybe it will hold, maybe it will not. I guess the wire has been worn
> > half way through by the belt. When I stuffed the wire back into the
> > clip, what remains still was sufficient to send signal. Maybe the belt
> > wizzing by was shorting out the signal .... Who knows how long it will
> > last, the cable housing was ripped up.
> >
> > So for now anyway novice idiot mechanic 1, Honda Gremlins 0.
> >
> > Warmest regards, Mike.
> >