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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05 Aug 2011, 08:02 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default The newest Honda transmission recall

So the current 4 cylinder Hondas now join the 6 cylinder models, the
ones built between 1997 and mid-2004, as having transmission that are as
weak and unreliable as a baby gerbil.

What caught my eye was this: that rather than fix the mechanical
problem of the bad/weak bearing (THAT would cost REAL MONEY!), American
Honda will instead--get this--alter the software that controls the
transmission.

This caught my eye because when I had to REPLACE the tranny in my 02
Odyssey, the only way Honda would do it was if they ALSO replaced the
ECU. Apparently, the older ECUs couldn't be reprogrammed, and Honda
"fixed" some of the code on those 5 speed trannies to try to prevent?
delay? the onset of the inevitable problems. Apparently, what I got in
my replacement $4500 tranny was the same design with the same design
faults, with altered control code to make it behave a little differently
to try to avoid the conditions that precipitated the failure.

Apparently, 73K miles over 9 years of my wife driving little kids around
town is just too much for the Honda transmission, and maybe having the
computer control it differently will help it along.

Whatever.

Anyway, the changing of the code in the current recall caught my eye
ALSO because last year, Honda hybrid owners discovered that their
traction battery packs were going bad VERY quickly. Of course, this is
an emissions part--so Honda is obligated to replace those that fail over
a period of time that's much longer than their standard 36 month
warranty.

And that costs REAL MONEY.

So what does Honda do? They RECALL their hybrids, every SINGLE ONE of
them, to do--what? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? That's right, CHANGE THE
ENGINE CONTROL CODE. And what would that POSSIBLY do to a hybrid?

Yep. It puts less of a load on the battery, so that it WON'T FAIL
DURING THE EMISSIONS WARRANTY PERIOD. And if it DOESN'T FAIL, then
Honda WON'T INCUR THE EXPENSE OF REPLACING IT.

Great idea, right? Absolutely--if you're Honda. Stop and think now,
what does that battery mean to a hybrid drivetrain? That's right,
MOTIVE POWER. And suddenly Honda is programming your system not to use
the battery so much, to try to limp it along? But...but...I still need
motive power, don't I?

Yes, you do. And do you know where that motive power, that USED to be
provided by the battery/motor system, will now come from?

Yep. YOUR GAS TANK. Which YOU pay to fill.

Suddenly, Civic Hybrid owners weren't seeing the 40-42mpg that they used
to have. Suddenly, right after the car came back from the dealer,
they're seeing....32mpg. Really? They could have bought a Civic LX and
gotten THAT mileage. But they paid a few thousand more for the
Hybrid--but now they're not getting any benefit from the hybrid drive
system.

All because Honda has decided that, instead of fixing the underlying
problem, they'd rather band-aid the issue and pass the problem along to
the owner's wallet. On an ongoing basis, no less. (At least my
transmission fix, while expensive, wasn't a monthly fee!)

This puts the current transmission recall into perspective. If Honda
can address something purely inside code, with no parts replacement,
they will--even if it means putting a burden onto the owner. As long as
the burden stays AWAY from Honda, that's all that matters.

Honda price, Chrysler experience.

And now the owners of the cars under recall will have transmissions that
behave markedly differently, and which can't rock them out of the snow
when necessary. Because that might expose Honda's shitty design and
manufacturing practices, and cost Honda money.

**** Honda. They can eat shit and die.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05 Aug 2011, 08:09 pm
Harvey
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Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:02:47 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>**** Honda. They can eat shit and die.


Local Honda dealer banned you with a restraining order, eh?

If anyone wants to see what a piece of work this shagnasty guy is,
look at the shit he says, then immediately denies saying in the ' 2012
Civic "Panned" ' thread over the last few days.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05 Aug 2011, 08:30 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

Harvey <removed@none.com> wrote in news:tt4p379rgcs5ke2ivdao7skt1m4mqcv30a@
4ax.com:

> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:02:47 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>>**** Honda. They can eat shit and die.

>
> Local Honda dealer banned you with a restraining order, eh?
>
> If anyone wants to see what a piece of work this shagnasty guy is,
> look at the shit he says, then immediately denies saying in the ' 2012
> Civic "Panned" ' thread over the last few days.
>




He had some kind of really bad experience with American Honda and/or his
dealership, and can't let go of it.

My experiences with people with Honda tranny problems have been quite the
opposite of Elmo's. The people I've been in contact with have universally
been well cared for by American Honda; American Honda has been very
accommodating and generous to them, and they've come away mostly pleased
with the outcome.


--
Tegger
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05 Aug 2011, 08:46 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

In article <Xns9F38DAD75CD0Btegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:

> He had some kind of really bad experience with American Honda and/or his
> dealership, and can't let go of it.


Not my dealership.

The fact that my Honda van cost $4500 more than it should have, because
of Honda's total mismanagement of the product and the customer--made all
the WORSE by the fact that Honda has proven in the past that they know
HOW to do it damn near perfectly.

"We haven't gotten it quite down yet" is way different from "yeah, we
figured we don't have to do it well anymore". I'll give Hyundai (for
example) the benefit of the doubt, while I blame Honda for making the
conscious choice to do it WRONG.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05 Aug 2011, 08:51 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

In article <Xns9F38DAD75CD0Btegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:

> My experiences with people with Honda tranny problems have been quite the
> opposite of Elmo's. The people I've been in contact with have universally
> been well cared for by American Honda; American Honda has been very
> accommodating and generous to them, and they've come away mostly pleased
> with the outcome.


And that was in fact the case before the economy melted down. I know of
a man who brought his 2001 van in to the shop with tranny problems; it
was his first time in to the dealer, ANY dealer (no record in Honda's
system at all), and he had a bunch of miles on the van, and he had a
trailer hitch on it--and admitted to everyone that he used the van to
pull a trailer through the mountains.

And American Honda accommodated that, 100%.

Fast forward to a couple years AFTER the economy crashes, in addition to
the perceived Hyundai threat, and American Honda has pulled ALL the way
back on its goodwill accommodation--to the point where a guy with a 25
year history of buying Hondas AND of having them serviced AT the
freakin' dealership, is denied accommodation on the tranny of (a) an 02
Odyssey, which (b) is known for problems, and yet (c) the van has only
73K miles on it over (d) 9 freakin' years.

Two years ago, I would have been right there with you, tellling the
world that Honda takes care of its customers and is probably the ONLY
car company that does.

The economy crashed and Hyundai came up in the world, and American Honda
ran scared--right into business decisions that were even WORSE than the
decisions they made when they designed and built those bad transmissions
to begin with.

And now MORE bad transmissions??? AFTER they screwed over their hybrid
owners?

American Honda is a train wreck.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05 Aug 2011, 09:01 pm
Harvey
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Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

On Sat, 6 Aug 2011 01:30:56 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@example.com>
wrote:

>Harvey <removed@none.com> wrote in news:tt4p379rgcs5ke2ivdao7skt1m4mqcv30a@
>4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:02:47 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>>**** Honda. They can eat shit and die.

>>
>> Local Honda dealer banned you with a restraining order, eh?
>>
>> If anyone wants to see what a piece of work this shagnasty guy is,
>> look at the shit he says, then immediately denies saying in the ' 2012
>> Civic "Panned" ' thread over the last few days.
>>

>
>
>
>He had some kind of really bad experience with American Honda and/or his
>dealership, and can't let go of it.


Well as you can see from the aforementioned thread, he makes a lot of
statements based on what he's read in brochures and tries to pass it
off as first-hand knowledge. He belittles people by calling them a
troll if they disagree with the logical deductions he made by reading
said brochure. And, if he doesn't see some information in the
brochure that happens to exist, and is later called on it, it is the
car manufacturers fault for trying to deceive him.

So I think you're right, he had a bad experience. He probably set
foot in a Honda dealership once in his life, and got kicked out of the
place with a front-line sales manager's Florsheim shoe stuck straight
up his anus. He has not been able to sit properly ever since, so the
best he can do is try to badmouth Honda on Usenet.

He should go hang out at a Ford or Dodge dealership, they operate
closer to his IQ level.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06 Aug 2011, 12:01 am
GrumpyOne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

Harvey wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:02:47 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>> **** Honda. They can eat shit and die.

>
> Local Honda dealer banned you with a restraining order, eh?
>
> If anyone wants to see what a piece of work this shagnasty guy is,
> look at the shit he says, then immediately denies saying in the ' 2012
> Civic "Panned" ' thread over the last few days.
>




Except that Shag is right. There is well documented evidence regarding
the battery issue with the Insight.

Regarding later electronic automatics... Well they rank right up there
with the Ford Taurus' that seldom got 100K before needing a complete
rebuild.

Honda is a shell of what used to be a great company.

JT


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06 Aug 2011, 03:45 pm
MG
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall



"GrumpyOne" <Grumpy@nowherenot.net> wrote in message
news:j1ihs0$mfk$1@dont-email.me...
> Harvey wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:02:47 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>> **** Honda. They can eat shit and die.

>>
>> Local Honda dealer banned you with a restraining order, eh?
>>
>> If anyone wants to see what a piece of work this shagnasty guy is,
>> look at the shit he says, then immediately denies saying in the ' 2012
>> Civic "Panned" ' thread over the last few days.
>>

>
>
>
> Except that Shag is right. There is well documented evidence regarding
> the battery issue with the Insight.
>
> Regarding later electronic automatics... Well they rank right up there
> with the Ford Taurus' that seldom got 100K before needing a complete
> rebuild.
>
> Honda is a shell of what used to be a great company.
>
> JT
>
>
>

I had a 2002 Odyssey that had its transmission replaced at around 78,000
miles in 2006, I think. Fully covered by Honda's warranty extension and
didn't cost me a penny. Wasn't your covered? The new transmission worked
dramatically better than the old one, until some idiot rear-ended another
car that rear-ended the van and totalled it.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06 Aug 2011, 06:37 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

In article <5Kh%p.235$fM.222@newsfe01.iad>,
"MG" <rebore78052@mypacks.net> wrote:

> I had a 2002 Odyssey that had its transmission replaced at around 78,000
> miles in 2006, I think. Fully covered by Honda's warranty extension and
> didn't cost me a penny. Wasn't your covered?


By August 2009, Honda had pulled back ALL the way on its goodwill
program. And this tidbit I got from a couple sources INSIDE Honda.

I had to start the conversation with the dealership service manager, as
he didn't offer it up front; Honda's first offer back was 25%. I took
it to the general manager, who got Honda to up it to 50% accommodation.

I took it and ran, and swore that American Honda would not get any more
of my money--and that I would do everything I could to keep them from
getting anyone's money. I will tell my story, from superb experience in
the very early 80s through Honda's "**** off, it's your problem not
ours" Chrysleresque response in 2009, forever.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06 Aug 2011, 11:35 pm
GrumpyOne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: The newest Honda transmission recall

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<5Kh%p.235$fM.222@newsfe01.iad>,
> "MG"<rebore78052@mypacks.net> wrote:
>
>> I had a 2002 Odyssey that had its transmission replaced at around 78,000
>> miles in 2006, I think. Fully covered by Honda's warranty extension and
>> didn't cost me a penny. Wasn't your covered?

>
> By August 2009, Honda had pulled back ALL the way on its goodwill
> program. And this tidbit I got from a couple sources INSIDE Honda.
>
> I had to start the conversation with the dealership service manager, as
> he didn't offer it up front; Honda's first offer back was 25%. I took
> it to the general manager, who got Honda to up it to 50% accommodation.
>
> I took it and ran, and swore that American Honda would not get any more
> of my money--and that I would do everything I could to keep them from
> getting anyone's money. I will tell my story, from superb experience in
> the very early 80s through Honda's "**** off, it's your problem not
> ours" Chrysleresque response in 2009, forever.




....and tomorrow, you can REALLY tell how you fee!

<G>

JT


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