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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30 Jul 2011, 11:56 am
tww1491
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Default 2012 Civic "Panned"

Looks like Honda has a "bust" with the new Civic per Consumer Reports. The
review did not recommend the car which tested near the bottom of similar
sedans with weak handling and brakes and degraded quality over the previous
Civic . Top rated was the Hyundai Elantra. The "porked-up" Accord is also
rated down somewhat with just average reliability. While I am going to hang
on to my 06 Accord I4 coupe with 82k miles for quite some time, if I were
looking for a new car I would probably find myself looking at Nissan
(Altima) -- their 6 speed coupe I4 appeals to me, or Kia or Hyundai. Looks
like Honda's heyday is over I am sad to say.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01 Aug 2011, 05:45 pm
Harvey
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:56:36 -0400, "tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote:

>Looks like Honda has a "bust" with the new Civic per Consumer Reports.


Personally I think CR has learned that the best way to gain attention
for their publication is to print a scathing review of a product that
is otherwise expected to get a positive review. As soon as they do
that, it makes headlines as a "shocker" in so many publications, which
is good advertising for them.

One of the recent examples of this is their review of the iPhone 4,
which everyone seems to forgot they gave their dreaded "not
recommended" rating. Yet I haven't met any iPhone 4 users who regret
getting one.

I have a friend that bought a 2012 Civic LX, I have driven it, and I
can confirm it is far superior to the prior model Civic. It is a
little pricier than Korean makes, but go look at the Edmunds.com
ratings on this car for folks that actually own one, they all love
them. She compared to Corolla, Elantra and a couple of American makes
(not sure which).

Honestly if I were looking for a small car for around this price range
right now, it would probably be my first choice. Consumer Reports has
done some goofy things in recent years, especially up-rating American
cars for reliability which turn out to be a money pit down the road,
proving that CR predictions for reliability is not what it used to be.
I wonder what is their basis for downgrading the reliability? I am
looking forward to getting the issue and reading the actual review.

I used to think very highly of CR reviews but it seems like the
predicted reliability of their studies is coming under question more
and more.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01 Aug 2011, 06:57 pm
Harvey
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"


I just received my copy of CR and read the review after posting the
above post. It's not really scathing -- it's not a good review, but
not as bad as I assumed it would be.

What's more, the negative characteristics they described were NOT
characteristic of my friend's Civic LX, nor of the one we test drove
before we bought it. I've seen comments on various blogs about this
today that also say their test drive or ownership experiences seem
vastly different from this CR review.

It makes one wonder if CR just got a lemon? Now granted there was a
time when Honda and lemon weren't even spoken in the same paragraph,
but Japan did suffer a major tsunami and nuclear crisis which did
affect the supply chain to some degree.

They are still predicting better than average reliability, and that's
one of the reasons one chooses a Honda over other brands. They picked
on Toyota last year, looks like Honda is their scapegoat this year. If
anyone is considering this car I would just say try it for yourself,
because it is very likely that your experience will differ from what
the CR testers reported.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2011, 06:14 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"

In article <9see379fhn445bu1b4v1emjfdklautqeri@4ax.com>,
Harvey <removed@none.com> wrote:

> They are still predicting better than average reliability, and that's
> one of the reasons one chooses a Honda over other brands.


<snort> Yeah, right.

The Honda "quality" smoke and mirrors has been fully exposed over the
last 10 years to be just that--smoke and mirrors.

Anyone who buys Honda, or who pays a premium to get a Honda, because of
their "quality" anymore is a sucker. Honda is trading off their past
now. It ain't there anymore.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2011, 12:08 pm
Cameo
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> The Honda "quality" smoke and mirrors has been fully exposed over the
> last 10 years to be just that--smoke and mirrors.
>
> Anyone who buys Honda, or who pays a premium to get a Honda, because
> of
> their "quality" anymore is a sucker. Honda is trading off their past
> now. It ain't there anymore.


So which company took Honda's place now?


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2011, 01:38 pm
Harvey
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:14:20 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <9see379fhn445bu1b4v1emjfdklautqeri@4ax.com>,
> Harvey <removed@none.com> wrote:
>
>> They are still predicting better than average reliability, and that's
>> one of the reasons one chooses a Honda over other brands.

>
><snort> Yeah, right.
>
>The Honda "quality" smoke and mirrors has been fully exposed over the
>last 10 years to be just that--smoke and mirrors.
>
>Anyone who buys Honda, or who pays a premium to get a Honda, because of
>their "quality" anymore is a sucker. Honda is trading off their past
>now. It ain't there anymore.


Not really interested in taking troll bait for a usenet flame session
where we both exchange opinions stated as fact.

The fact is that everyone I've heard from who has actually driven this
car thinks Consumer Reports is on drugs after this review, and the CR
review conflicts with almost every other review written, in multiple
criterion areas.

Here's one such conflicting report.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...tory?track=rss

And here's another one....while Consumer Reports cites poor quality
interior, road noise and unrefined ride, Car and Driver said "the new
Civic sedan isolates its driver and occupants from the outside world
in a way its predecessors did not. Assembly and materials are high
quality, and for the driver whose requirements are limited to
competence and comfort, the 2012 Civic will do very nicely".

Car and Driver seems to understand that the Civic is not designed to
be a sports car, they have aimed for a more cushy ride.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

The fact is this car gets great mileage, great crash test results, is
cosmetically improved from the prior generation Civic and looks better
than the competition, has a great instrument panel, less road noise
than the prior generation, drives great if you prefer a refined feel
over a sporty feel, and is sure to have the signature long-term
reliability advantage over the competition. Its not a perfect car but
Civics are economy cars and Honda has done a good job of upscaling
their flagship economy car in the right amounts.

Owner reviews on this car are coming back extremely high, and anyone
who has actually owned a Honda knows they don't spend much time in the
repair shop, relative to other makes.

Side note, the Ford Focus and Chevy Cruze were also not recommended by
the CR review. I'd hate to be owning one of those terds after the
warranty wears off.

Besides, I don't know why anyone would lend you any credibility, when
on 5/26/2010 in alt.autos.lexus, you proclaimed:

"Bullshit. If so, you'd have noticed that EVERY car you've "traded"
up to in the last 10 years does not include an ashtray, that the
ashtray is an option you have to buy and install. So you're nothing
but a worthless troll."

..... when in fact my 2011 Lexus IS 350 does have an ashtray (they all
do, I didn't order it). Be careful what you write, it only takes one
post to show the world you don't know WTF you're talking about.

Have you even driven a Civic? If not, I don't see how you can justify
your contributions to this thread.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2011, 07:22 pm
tww1491
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"



"Cameo" wrote in message news:j19asu$qkl$1@dont-email.me...

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> The Honda "quality" smoke and mirrors has been fully exposed over the
> last 10 years to be just that--smoke and mirrors.
>
> Anyone who buys Honda, or who pays a premium to get a Honda, because of
> their "quality" anymore is a sucker. Honda is trading off their past
> now. It ain't there anymore.


So which company took Honda's place now?

Actually, it appears that the question was answered in the Consumers Reports
review -- Hyundai and even Nissan has arisen from the ashes of its demise
some years ago.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2011, 05:39 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"

In article <63fg375oo10gflo3itlmoelvb9p57dquai@4ax.com>,
Harvey <removed@none.com> wrote:

> >Anyone who buys Honda, or who pays a premium to get a Honda, because of
> >their "quality" anymore is a sucker. Honda is trading off their past
> >now. It ain't there anymore.

>
> Not really interested in taking troll bait for a usenet flame session
> where we both exchange opinions stated as fact.


No troll here. Nuthin' but facts.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2011, 05:41 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"

In article <63fg375oo10gflo3itlmoelvb9p57dquai@4ax.com>,
Harvey <removed@none.com> wrote:

> "Bullshit. If so, you'd have noticed that EVERY car you've "traded"
> up to in the last 10 years does not include an ashtray, that the
> ashtray is an option you have to buy and install. So you're nothing
> but a worthless troll."
>
> .... when in fact my 2011 Lexus IS 350 does have an ashtray (they all
> do, I didn't order it).


You mean, your dealer installed the factory option onto it before you
ever saw the car.

Factories don't install ashtrays anymore. Haven't for many, many years.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2011, 05:41 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: 2012 Civic "Panned"

In article <63fg375oo10gflo3itlmoelvb9p57dquai@4ax.com>,
Harvey <removed@none.com> wrote:

> Have you even driven a Civic? If not, I don't see how you can justify
> your contributions to this thread.


wow. I mean, just wow. Have you ever participated in this newsgroup
before?

Clearly not.
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