Honda Car Forum

Apparently you do not know much about the US if you believe that.


mike hunt


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154635051.661780.273930@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
>
> That is incredibly stupid
>
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.



mike hunt

>> History repeatedly tells us
>> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
>
>
> People want transport from a to b and they want it to be safe,
> comfortable and at a low cost
>
> In Europe that means increasingly using trains for long trips and small
> cars at the destination
>
> There is an increasing number of powerful transport options using
> combination of high quality trains and comfortable long lasting small
> cars
>

As you should well know, fleet use and private use are two different
animals. Someone with a fleet car doesn't care about it as long as it
is still functional and safe to drive. However, they would never put
up with the junky feel and increased NVH of worn components in their
own personal cars. Thus a cheaply made car will cost a private owner
much more over the long term than a well built one, unless the owner
*acts* like a fleet manager and trades it in every couple years.

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
> is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
> thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
> meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
> discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
> The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
> more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
> with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
> >> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
> >> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
> >> midget
> >> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
> >> million
> >> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
> >> more
> >> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
> >> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
> >> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
> >> average
> >> than any other manufactures vehicles.
> >
> > Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> > reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> > has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> > their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> > outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> > public.)
> >
> > Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> > quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> > we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> > cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> > differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> > disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> > some compromise between quality and price.
> >
> > nate
> >

I have one of those as well.

mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154644738.046040.118520@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> Rebuilt, maybe, but not non-Datsun.
>
> How many '65 Mustangs still have original, unrebuilt engines?
>
> nate
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Perhaps, with all new drive trains, but not originals at old car shows
>>
>>
>> mike
>>
>>
>> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154632856.607624.99920@s13g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>> >
>> > Mike Hunter wrote:
>> >> Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently
>> >> there
>> >> is
>> >> 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it
>> >> class
>> >> at
>> >> old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
>> >> Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car
>> >> on
>> >> occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
>> >> Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car
>> >
>> > That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
>> >
>> > nate
>> >
>

Isn't envy one of the deadly sins? It is people like me that makes work for
others


mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154644822.154269.172580@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
>> 'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
>> gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon
>>
>> I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time
>> and
>> in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
>> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
>> Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
>> They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
>> small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore.
>> Where
>> the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
>> and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
>> anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower
>> labor
>> and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
>> higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
>> last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we
>> did
>> when it was $2
>>
>> Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the
>> cost
>> of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it
>> built
>> under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply
>> lower
>> the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We
>> sill
>> never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
>> become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you
>> want.
>>
>
> That's right, when a commodity is expensive because it's scarce, the
> solution is to just make more money and consume, consume, consume and
> don't give a second thought to what would happen if everyone acted like
> you.
>
> nate
>

You have no idea what you are talking about. Fleet buyers do a far better
job of maintaining their vehicles than the average owner. How may owners
do you know that do things like changes brake fluid, do pressure tests
monthly, take off door panels to lubricate window actuators, take apart and
clean electrical connectors etc?

To a corporate fleet a vehicle is a 'tool' needed to run their business.
Down time costs money. They generally keep them in service for five years
or 300K WOF, because of federal deprecation tax laws. Many keep them even
longer. To government fleets, maintenance is primary as well. To a police
officer his patrol car is as important as his weapon, it has to work
properly or it could cost him his life One state police department that we
serviced, has Jeeps Cherokees from the eighties, with over 200k on the clock
and still in tip top shape, in use in mountainous parts of the state.

The only high volume buyers that don't care about their cars are most of the
rental car companies. Top fluids and get it back on the road. The
difference is to a rental car company vehicles are NOT a tool, but their
product that they get rid off in a year or less.


mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154644966.346847.136700@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> As you should well know, fleet use and private use are two different
> animals. Someone with a fleet car doesn't care about it as long as it
> is still functional and safe to drive. However, they would never put
> up with the junky feel and increased NVH of worn components in their
> own personal cars. Thus a cheaply made car will cost a private owner
> much more over the long term than a well built one, unless the owner
> *acts* like a fleet manager and trades it in every couple years.
>
> nate
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean
>> it
>> is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
>> thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With
>> our
>> meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw
>> little
>> discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market
>> today.
>> The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
>> more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the
>> manufacture
>> with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>
>> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> >
>> > Mike Hunter wrote:
>> >> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM
>> >> and
>> >> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
>> >> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
>> >> midget
>> >> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
>> >> million
>> >> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
>> >> more
>> >> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over
>> >> time
>> >> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior
>> >> quality.
>> >> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
>> >> average
>> >> than any other manufactures vehicles.
>> >
>> > Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
>> > reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
>> > has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
>> > their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
>> > outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
>> > public.)
>> >
>> > Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
>> > quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
>> > we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
>> > cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
>> > differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
>> > disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
>> > some compromise between quality and price.
>> >
>> > nate
>> >
>

Mike Hunter wrote:

(idiot top posting fixed)

> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154644822.154269.172580@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
> >> 'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
> >> gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon
> >>
> >> I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time
> >> and
> >> in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
> >> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
> >> Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
> >> They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
> >> small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore.
> >> Where
> >> the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
> >> and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
> >> anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower
> >> labor
> >> and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
> >> higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
> >> last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we
> >> did
> >> when it was $2
> >>
> >> Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the
> >> cost
> >> of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it
> >> built
> >> under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply
> >> lower
> >> the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We
> >> sill
> >> never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
> >> become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you
> >> want.
> >>
> >
> > That's right, when a commodity is expensive because it's scarce, the
> > solution is to just make more money and consume, consume, consume and
> > don't give a second thought to what would happen if everyone acted like
> > you.
> >
> > nate
> >
> Isn't envy one of the deadly sins? It is people like me that makes work for
> others
>
>
> mike hunt
>

What are you talking about, oh top posting one?

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:

(idiot top posting fixed)

>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154644966.346847.136700@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> > As you should well know, fleet use and private use are two different
> > animals. Someone with a fleet car doesn't care about it as long as it
> > is still functional and safe to drive. However, they would never put
> > up with the junky feel and increased NVH of worn components in their
> > own personal cars. Thus a cheaply made car will cost a private owner
> > much more over the long term than a well built one, unless the owner
> > *acts* like a fleet manager and trades it in every couple years.
> >
> > nate

> You have no idea what you are talking about. Fleet buyers do a far better
> job of maintaining their vehicles than the average owner. How may owners
> do you know that do things like changes brake fluid,

I do that, and I try to remind those that I care about to do that as
well. Not done on fleet vehicles IME.

> do pressure tests
> monthly, take off door panels to lubricate window actuators, take apart and
> clean electrical connectors etc?
>

Nobody does that, not even the fleet managers. I should know, having a
fleet car. Well, I do, when I have to, on my own cars.

> To a corporate fleet a vehicle is a 'tool' needed to run their business.
> Down time costs money. They generally keep them in service for five years
> or 300K WOF, because of federal deprecation tax laws. Many keep them even
> longer.

Not true; I turn in my car at 70K miles, I think the service trucks are
kept a little longer but not much, maybe 100K or so.

> To government fleets, maintenance is primary as well. To a police
> officer his patrol car is as important as his weapon, it has to work
> properly or it could cost him his life One state police department that we
> serviced, has Jeeps Cherokees from the eighties, with over 200k on the clock
> and still in tip top shape, in use in mountainous parts of the state.\

That's the exception not the rule.

>
> The only high volume buyers that don't care about their cars are most of the
> rental car companies. Top fluids and get it back on the road. The
> difference is to a rental car company vehicles are NOT a tool, but their
> product that they get rid off in a year or less.

IME the fleet services treat the cars exactly like rental cars. When
they are turned in at 70K miles they are just about smack wore out
(well at least the Impalas the company that services the company that I
work for uses are!) Before I got my company car, I drove my
predecessor's car for a few days that was actually over the 70K cutoff.
Aside from the ludicrously loud noises from under the hood, the
shimmy, and the disconcerting creaks and clunks from the front end, it
was just fine. I would find this totally unacceptable in a personal
vehicle.

nate

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:56:52 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:

>We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
>'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
>gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon
>
>I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
>in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
>what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.

Horse shit. Size and power are always a compromise between
needs/desires of the buyer for capacity, price, fuel economy,
maneuverability and other factors. Otherwise we would all be driving
cars the size of the Queen Mary by now.

>Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
>They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
>small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
>the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
>and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
>anymore than domestics can.

Well, I guess you have now obliquely defined what a "midget car" is.
It must be the Yaris and Fit class of cars. No, these are not built
here, at least not yet. (Where are they built?)

You imply that these cars are why Honda and Toyota sales are booming
while GM and Ford are in the dumper. The Yaris and Fit constitute
only a tiny sliver of Toyota and Honda sales. They certainly don't
explain why Pilot outsold Explorer last month.

> Even though the imports have much lower labor
>and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
>higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
>last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
>when it was $2

I have to doubt any "fact" you post, but I do know for sure that
truck-based SUV sales have been falling for the last four years.

>Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
>of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
>under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
>the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
>never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
>become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.

The average American's wages haven't been keeping up with inflation
since W got into office. Lots of Americans can't afford the gas for
the Suburban they foolishly bought three years ago no matter how
accustomed they become to $3/gal. The truck-based SUVs which kept GM
and Ford afloat will not come back until gas drops below $2. Don't
hold your breath.


>
>
>
>mike hunt
>
>
>"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>> What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of
>> the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough
>> allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have
>> known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the
>> SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it. You're also
>> completely disregarding reputation for quality, which is indisputably
>> in favor of the imports. One thing that you got right in your post is
>> that the Koreans are likely going to make a strong showing over the
>> next couple years.
>>
>> nate
>>
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> You are entitled to your own opinion but I am simply stating facts.
>>> Actually the fuel economy of the comparable cars and trucks that both GM
>>> and
>>> Ford have to offer are as good, or better. than import brands. Where
>>> they
>>> fall short is in the midget car class where the do not generally offer a
>>> competitive vehicle. When one considers the drive home price difference
>>> between the domestics and most imports, the domestics have the advantage
>>> for
>>> an astute buyer. One need prepay for their fuel by spending an extra 20%
>>> or
>>> 30% to get a few more MPG. The Koreans do a far better job of fuel
>>> economy
>>> for the price than the Japs. Both GM and Ford have more vehicles that
>>> get
>>> 30 or more MPG than any of the imports.
>>>
>>>
>>> mike hunt
>

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:09:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:

> Just a note, the manufacture
>with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.

You know, Mike, recalls aren't the best way to measure quality. The
problem is that the numbers fluctuate wildly. Yesterday Toyota seemed
well out in front and then today, BAM. Out of nowhere comes Ford
recalling 1.2 million trucks to take the lead.

http://www.ktva.com/topstory/ci_4132474

At least you prefaced your post as your opinion because that is all it is,
an opinion based on your particular experience. The facts are as I
presented them, but you are free to believe whatever you chose.

mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154653572.621516.98080@75g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>> You have no idea what you are talking about. Fleet buyers do a far
>> better
>> job of maintaining their vehicles than the average owner. How may
>> owners
>> do you know that do things like changes brake fluid do pressure tests
>> monthly, take off door panels to lubricate window actuators, take apart
>> and
>> clean electrical connectors etc?
>>
>> To a corporate fleet a vehicle is a 'tool' needed to run their business.
>> Down time costs money. They generally keep them in service for five
>> years
>> or 300K WOF, because of federal deprecation tax laws. Many keep them
>> even
>> longer.

>> To government fleets, maintenance is primary as well. To a police
>> officer his patrol car is as important as his weapon, it has to work
>> properly or it could cost him his life One state police department that
>> we
>> serviced, has Jeeps Cherokees from the eighties, with over 200k on the
>> clock
>> and still in tip top shape, in use in mountainous parts of the state.\

>> The only high volume buyers that don't care about their cars are most of
>> the
>> rental car companies. Top fluids and get it back on the road. The
>> difference is to a rental car company vehicles are NOT a tool, but their
>> product that they get rid off in a year or less.
>
> IME the fleet services treat the cars exactly like rental cars. When
> they are turned in at 70K miles they are just about smack wore out
> (well at least the Impalas the company that services the company that I
> work for uses are!) >
> nate
>