Honda Car Forum

As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.


mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
>> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
>> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
>> midget
>> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
>> million
>> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
>> more
>> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
>> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
>> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
>> average
>> than any other manufactures vehicles.
>
> Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> public.)
>
> Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> some compromise between quality and price.
>
> nate
>

An engine made by FIAT to boot


mike


"grappletech" <noone@removenowhere.biz> wrote in message
news:1154565454_2931@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
> newsubAg.764$1f6.85@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> If what you are saying is true, the Pinto, Vega, Horizon, and other
>> little crap boxes would still exist. I heard your words many times in
>> the past, but it was only temporary.
>
>
> The Omni/Horizon were decent cars. They had the 2.2 4 banger -- great
> little durable engine. Small cars get bad reps for being junk,
> unreliable. Usually it was lack of maintenance. People who buy cheap
> cars tend not to maintain them as well as more pricier cars because of
> the cheap initial cost of the cars and that these economy car buyers
> tend to be of a lower socio-economic class. A lot of Yugo buyers never
> bothered to change their oil and would have the Yugos with their seized
> engines towed to the dealer angrily demanding a new engine and when told
> no, replied "you expect me to change oil on a $3900 car!?" But the Yugo
> engine is actually a bulletproof, reliable, easy to maintain engine.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there is
305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class at
old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car


mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154566375.238535.255020@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of
>> > the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough
>> > allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have
>> > known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the
>> > SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it.
>>
>> If what you are saying is true, the Pinto, Vega, Horizon, and other
>> little
>> crap boxes would still exist. I heard your words many times in the past,
>> but it was only temporary.
>
> well, the Fox-body certainly lasted long enough... I think that had
> some Pinto genes in it, no? the Vega was a POS from the get go though,
> although it certainly was a sharp *looking* little car. Too bad GM
> didn't see fit to put an actual engine under the hood instead of the
> grenade they stuffed in there. You forgot to mention the Chevette as
> well, which was another GM compact that simply disappeared off the
> roads almost as soon as it was discontinued. The Horizon was a poor
> imitation of the Rabbit...
>
> meanwhile, up until very recently, any of the import brands offered
> just the kinds of vehicles that you sneer at. Now that fuel prices are
> going up, they're bringing over some of the smaller models (Yaris,
> etc.) to fill the gap left when they moved their existing models
> upsized and upmarket.
>
> nate
>
> (still miss my old VW Scirocco... couldn't kill the damn thing even at
> 240K miles, and it would get close to 30 MPG if you could keep your
> foot out of it. Sold it because I thought I wanted a new car, that was
> dumb. Can I have it back now please?)
>

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there is
> 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class at
> old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car

That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.

nate

designed, not made. However, if you can keep the rust monster at bay,
an old FIAT will actually last quite a long time; when I was a kid a
neighbor down the street had one of those little red boxy looking FIAT
coupes, and his wife drove the wheels off of it. It was a cute little
thing, and since he kept up with the maintenance (and squirting oil up
into all the nooks and crannies apparently,) last I heard it was handed
down to his daughter.

Apparently you can make a neat little GTI type racer by mixing and
matching FIAT and Yugo parts...

nate


Mike Hunter wrote:
> An engine made by FIAT to boot
>
>
> mike
>
>
> "grappletech" <noone@removenowhere.biz> wrote in message
> news:1154565454_2931@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> > "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
> > newsubAg.764$1f6.85@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
> >
> >> If what you are saying is true, the Pinto, Vega, Horizon, and other
> >> little crap boxes would still exist. I heard your words many times in
> >> the past, but it was only temporary.
> >
> >
> > The Omni/Horizon were decent cars. They had the 2.2 4 banger -- great
> > little durable engine. Small cars get bad reps for being junk,
> > unreliable. Usually it was lack of maintenance. People who buy cheap
> > cars tend not to maintain them as well as more pricier cars because of
> > the cheap initial cost of the cars and that these economy car buyers
> > tend to be of a lower socio-economic class. A lot of Yugo buyers never
> > bothered to change their oil and would have the Yugos with their seized
> > engines towed to the dealer angrily demanding a new engine and when told
> > no, replied "you expect me to change oil on a $3900 car!?" But the Yugo
> > engine is actually a bulletproof, reliable, easy to maintain engine.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> > News==----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> > Newsgroups
> > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> > =----

That is incredibly stupid


Mike Hunter wrote:
> History repeatedly tells us
> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.


People want transport from a to b and they want it to be safe,
comfortable and at a low cost

In Europe that means increasingly using trains for long trips and small
cars at the destination

There is an increasing number of powerful transport options using
combination of high quality trains and comfortable long lasting small
cars

Perhaps, with all new drive trains, but not originals at old car shows

mike


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154632856.607624.99920@s13g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there
>> is
>> 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class
>> at
>> old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
>> Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
>> occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
>> Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car
>
> That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
>
> nate
>

N8N wrote:
> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there is
> > 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class at
> > old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> > Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> > occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> > Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car
>
> That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
>
> nate

Just remembered, I've seen a couple of those little Datsun 2-seat
convertibles (pre-Z car) nicely restored as well. At least one at each
of the last couple local car shows I've been to.

nate

Rebuilt, maybe, but not non-Datsun.

How many '65 Mustangs still have original, unrebuilt engines?

nate

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Perhaps, with all new drive trains, but not originals at old car shows
>
> mike
>
>
> "N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154632856.607624.99920@s13g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > Mike Hunter wrote:
> >> Among my collection of old cars there is a 1971 Pinto. Currently there
> >> is
> >> 305K on the clock. Looks and runs as good as new. It even wins it class
> >> at
> >> old cars shows. Know what I have yet to see at an old car show? ANY
> >> Japanese cars, in my class, except for a low mileage XR7 or a 'Z' car on
> >> occasion in the sport class. Lots of British, German, even French and
> >> Italian small cars from that era but hardly ever see a Jap car
> >
> > That's odd, I've seen quite a few B210s done up for vintage racing.
> >
> > nate
> >

Mike Hunter wrote:
> We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
> 'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
> gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon
>
> I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
> in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
> what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
> Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
> They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
> small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
> the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
> and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
> anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
> and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
> higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
> last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
> when it was $2
>
> Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
> of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
> under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
> the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
> never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
> become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.
>

That's right, when a commodity is expensive because it's scarce, the
solution is to just make more money and consume, consume, consume and
don't give a second thought to what would happen if everyone acted like
you.

nate