Honda Car Forum

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:56:06 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

>Maybe the answer is that it's good you learned about their integrity at a
>modest cost, rather with something more expensive.
>
>"If you loan a friend $20 and they never pay you back, it was worth it." -
>unknown
>
>Mike

Not sure how adjusting the valves would cause the belt to slip.
Possibly, if the belt were loose and the engine was rotated backwards
aggressively, then maybe. If the valve timing is now advanced (i.e.
valves opening too soon), that could indicate that the slippage
occurred in that manner.

If they are complete idiots, anything is possible.

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:275bb29134q4kpeohenb3gske7jbk4s07s@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:56:06 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>>Maybe the answer is that it's good you learned about their integrity at a
>>modest cost, rather with something more expensive.
>>
>>"If you loan a friend $20 and they never pay you back, it was worth it." -
>>unknown
>>
>>Mike
>
> Not sure how adjusting the valves would cause the belt to slip.
> Possibly, if the belt were loose and the engine was rotated backwards
> aggressively, then maybe. If the valve timing is now advanced (i.e.
> valves opening too soon), that could indicate that the slippage
> occurred in that manner.
>
> If they are complete idiots, anything is possible.
>
>
Rotating the engine backward, even gently, is definitely capable of causing
the belt to jump. Fortunately the cover was still off when I did that <8^P

Mike

arock wrote:
> Update: I brought the car in and pointed out the issues you guys
> brought up. It did turn out to be that the timing belt had, in fact,
> jumped one tooth. However, they insisted that it was purely a
> coincidence and the valve adjustment had nothing to do with it. I asked
> why would it jump immediately the day after the valve service. He
> replied although there is only 65k on the timing belt, that because it
> has been over 6 years since it was replaced that the timing belt
> probably is due and a little worn and that could've cause it to jump. I
> told him I didn't agree with that scenario, but he wouldn't concede.
>
> Seeing that was going nowhere, I then asked assuming that is was a
> coincedence why didn't they notice that before the last two times I was
> in with this problem? He replied that they did check the timing and it
> was just a little off -- but still within the normal range. I then
> asked to talk to the service manager who just happened to be out of the
> office.
>
> When I talk to the service manager what "proof" can I show him that the
> valve adjustment could have caused the timing belt to jump a tooth? I'm
> not a mechanic by any means, so I just can't say "because I saw it in
> an online newsgroup." Is there something official from Honda or Acura
> that I can find online?

it's not the actual valve settings that cause the belt to jump, it's the
fact that if the belt is already loose, when the technician
*incorrectly* turns the crank the wrong way, a loose belt will jump.
and here's the clincher, not only is a loose belt easily apparent when
you get the cover off, you can /see/ it jump as the crank rotates!!!

bottom line:

1. if the belt was loose, it wasn't done right in the first place -
belts don't stretch.

2. the tech turned the crank the wrong way, hence the jump.

3. checking for loose belt is part of the job when doing the valve
lash!!! if that wasn't done, and they sent it out the door with a belt
that was not only loose but jumped, it's /definitely/ their problem.
just like it's their problem if they work on the wheels, don't tighten
the bolts on replacement, and one falls off on the freeway home.

the belt tensioning procedure is all in the honda service manual,
including instructions to only turn the crank in one direction. i'd
call honda usa's customer service line and talk it through with them.
this vehicle wasn't serviced right, and you shouldn't have to pay for
the remedy to their error.

>
> Anyway, the car runs great now. No more rough idle at all. I haven't
> gone through a tank of gas yet, but I'm pretty positive that will be
> better, too.
>
>
> arock wrote:
>
>>I have a 1994 Acura Integra LS automatic with 165k miles. I had a valve
>>adjustment done on the car. Immediately after the work was done and
>>since that time the car has had poor gas mileage, a very rough idle,
>>and loss of power. I had abolutely none of those problems before the
>>adjustment. Before I take it back into the shop I would like to know if
>>a bad valve adjustment could be the source of these problems and how it
>>should be remedied. Also, are there any long-term risks associated with
>>a bad valve adjustment?
>
>

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:04:48 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:275bb29134q4kpeohenb3gske7jbk4s07s@4ax.com.. .
>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:56:06 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
>> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe the answer is that it's good you learned about their integrity at a
>>>modest cost, rather with something more expensive.
>>>
>>>"If you loan a friend $20 and they never pay you back, it was worth it." -
>>>unknown
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>> Not sure how adjusting the valves would cause the belt to slip.
>> Possibly, if the belt were loose and the engine was rotated backwards
>> aggressively, then maybe. If the valve timing is now advanced (i.e.
>> valves opening too soon), that could indicate that the slippage
>> occurred in that manner.
>>
>> If they are complete idiots, anything is possible.
>>
>>
>Rotating the engine backward, even gently, is definitely capable of causing
>the belt to jump. Fortunately the cover was still off when I did that <8^P
>
>Mike

Well, there you go. I assume you saw it jump on the cam sprocket.

And I am pretty sure that if the belt slipped while the engine was
turning forward, the valves would always be retarded. If the valves
are advanced, it could only happen when the engine was turning
backwards and it indicates that the mechanic made a mistake when
adjusting the valves. I'm guessing that he isn't very familiar with
Hondas.


>

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8rjbb29j3qt4d8kanjgre1us35auku09no@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:04:48 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:275bb29134q4kpeohenb3gske7jbk4s07s@4ax.com. ..
>>>
>>> Not sure how adjusting the valves would cause the belt to slip.
>>> Possibly, if the belt were loose and the engine was rotated backwards
>>> aggressively, then maybe. If the valve timing is now advanced (i.e.
>>> valves opening too soon), that could indicate that the slippage
>>> occurred in that manner.
>>>
>>> If they are complete idiots, anything is possible.
>>>
>>>
>>Rotating the engine backward, even gently, is definitely capable of
>>causing
>>the belt to jump. Fortunately the cover was still off when I did that <8^P
>>
>>Mike
>
> Well, there you go. I assume you saw it jump on the cam sprocket.

Right. Fortunately it was in front of my face as I was moving the crankshaft
and I was watching it to align the timing marks. The belt lifted up almost
immediately as the cam gear began to move. IIRC I had planned to turn the
crank quite a distance, so I didn't stop in time to prevent the belt from
jumping the whole tooth.

>
> And I am pretty sure that if the belt slipped while the engine was
> turning forward, the valves would always be retarded. If the valves
> are advanced, it could only happen when the engine was turning
> backwards and it indicates that the mechanic made a mistake when
> adjusting the valves. I'm guessing that he isn't very familiar with
> Hondas.
>
>
>>
>

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:jcydnSpT_qxgOyjZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:


>
> it's not the actual valve settings that cause the belt to jump, it's the
> fact that if the belt is already loose, when the technician
> *incorrectly* turns the crank the wrong way, a loose belt will jump.
> and here's the clincher, not only is a loose belt easily apparent when
> you get the cover off, you can /see/ it jump as the crank rotates!!!



AND...as the tech that did the job, you FELT it jump (oops!), but DIDN'T
TELL ANYBODY.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/