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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 10:28 am
Savannah Sue
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Posts: n/a
Default Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

I took my 6 cyl '07 Accord with just over 30k miles into the local
dealer yesterday for a required A1 maintenance visit (oil, filter and
rotate tires).

After half hour, the service weasel comes and sits next to me in the
waiting room with a sheath of papers in hand. He spoke in a tone of
voice that reminded me of a doctor telling a patient he had a dread
disease and only 3 months to live.

He said my brake fluid was showing a slight greenish tinge-- it should
be clear. He said the owner's manual called for replacement after 3
years and as I was a year past that, I'd better change it. He also told
me my battery (51 months old) was reading "bad" and needed to be
replaced as well.

I've generally been treated well and fairly by that dealer service
department and might have had the service done but I was tight on time
and told the guy I'd bring the car back later in the week.

Well, I've looked in the owner's manual and it specifically says the
brake fluid should be changed when called for by the Mileage Minder--
nothing about a timed interval. I also checked the battery sight-eye (it
was green) and used one of those specific gravity testers and all 6
cells showed 4 balls floating (100% charge).

So---- was I getting hustled or what? I always do all needed
maintenance-- but I'm thinking those two services were for their
benefit, not mine.

Opinions?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 10:51 am
MLD
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement


"Savannah Sue" <ss@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:iucruc$1fj$1@news.albasani.net...
>I took my 6 cyl '07 Accord with just over 30k miles into the local dealer
>yesterday for a required A1 maintenance visit (oil, filter and rotate
>tires).
>
> After half hour, the service weasel comes and sits next to me in the
> waiting room with a sheath of papers in hand. He spoke in a tone of voice
> that reminded me of a doctor telling a patient he had a dread disease and
> only 3 months to live.
>
> He said my brake fluid was showing a slight greenish tinge-- it should be
> clear. He said the owner's manual called for replacement after 3 years and
> as I was a year past that, I'd better change it. He also told me my
> battery (51 months old) was reading "bad" and needed to be replaced as
> well.
>
> I've generally been treated well and fairly by that dealer service
> department and might have had the service done but I was tight on time and
> told the guy I'd bring the car back later in the week.
>
> Well, I've looked in the owner's manual and it specifically says the brake
> fluid should be changed when called for by the Mileage Minder--
> nothing about a timed interval. I also checked the battery sight-eye (it
> was green) and used one of those specific gravity testers and all 6 cells
> showed 4 balls floating (100% charge).
>
> So---- was I getting hustled or what? I always do all needed maintenance--
> but I'm thinking those two services were for their benefit, not mine.
>
> Opinions?


You were getting the old scare tactic sales routine. Come in for a special
and free safety inspection and then watch out. Also, needed services don't
always happen at the same time--cooling system, brake fluid, timing belt,
air cleaner etc may all get done at varies times but when you look at the
recommended mileage intervals between each of these services you may find
that nothing need be done at the 30K or 60K trigger points. Remember
Reagan--Trust but verify.
MLD

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 05:00 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

In article <iucruc$1fj$1@news.albasani.net>,
Savannah Sue <ss@nospam.net> wrote:

> After half hour, the service weasel comes and sits next to me in the
> waiting room with a sheath of papers in hand. He spoke in a tone of
> voice that reminded me of a doctor telling a patient he had a dread
> disease and only 3 months to live.
>
> He said my brake fluid was showing a slight greenish tinge-- it should
> be clear. He said the owner's manual called for replacement after 3
> years and as I was a year past that, I'd better change it.


Well, he smells like he just came from managing a Jiffy Lube and is used
to doing this smarmy kind of thing--

--but it's true, Honda's story for years has been that brake fluid is
time-dependent and the interval is three years.

I do it every three years, like clockwork.



> He also told
> me my battery (51 months old) was reading "bad" and needed to be
> replaced as well.


You have a tool at your disposal that is unavailable to us men: you can
play dumb and sweet, and get out of there very quickly.

Did he show you any stats on that battery?

Time to take it somewhere else to check out the charging system if
you're worried, but frankly I wouldn't be worried. Let the battery die,
or wait until winter, or whatever. But a battery is a simple thing.

Batteries Plus will check your system for you, AND will put a new
battery in if need be.

But if you're worried get a second opinion, regardless.



> Well, I've looked in the owner's manual and it specifically says the
> brake fluid should be changed when called for by the Mileage Minder--
> nothing about a timed interval. I also checked the battery sight-eye (it
> was green) and used one of those specific gravity testers and all 6
> cells showed 4 balls floating (100% charge).
>
> So---- was I getting hustled or what?


You were getting hustled on the battery, that's for sure--and since the
owner's manual is specific about "wait until the MM say so," you should
pursue this issue with disinterested third parties to try to find out
what's really going on. Honda in years past was very firm on the three
year rule for brake fluid. Suddenly it's MM driven? And you've gone
over four years???

There's a story here somewhere.

My concern is that Honda is abusing the MM as a marketing tool, to make
maintenance costs seem lower. Suddenly the physical properties of brake
fluid changed significantly enough that Honda can tell by your DRIVING
STYLE (as reported by the computer) whether the fluid should be OK or
not????

I am not convinced.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 05:47 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

On 06/28/2011 03:00 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<iucruc$1fj$1@news.albasani.net>,
> Savannah Sue<ss@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> After half hour, the service weasel comes and sits next to me in the
>> waiting room with a sheath of papers in hand. He spoke in a tone of
>> voice that reminded me of a doctor telling a patient he had a dread
>> disease and only 3 months to live.
>>
>> He said my brake fluid was showing a slight greenish tinge-- it should
>> be clear. He said the owner's manual called for replacement after 3
>> years and as I was a year past that, I'd better change it.

>
> Well, he smells like he just came from managing a Jiffy Lube and is used
> to doing this smarmy kind of thing--
>
> --but it's true, Honda's story for years has been that brake fluid is
> time-dependent and the interval is three years.
>
> I do it every three years, like clockwork.
>
>
>
>> He also told
>> me my battery (51 months old) was reading "bad" and needed to be
>> replaced as well.

>
> You have a tool at your disposal that is unavailable to us men: you can
> play dumb and sweet, and get out of there very quickly.
>
> Did he show you any stats on that battery?
>
> Time to take it somewhere else to check out the charging system if
> you're worried, but frankly I wouldn't be worried. Let the battery die,
> or wait until winter, or whatever. But a battery is a simple thing.
>
> Batteries Plus will check your system for you, AND will put a new
> battery in if need be.
>
> But if you're worried get a second opinion, regardless.
>
>
>
>> Well, I've looked in the owner's manual and it specifically says the
>> brake fluid should be changed when called for by the Mileage Minder--
>> nothing about a timed interval. I also checked the battery sight-eye (it
>> was green) and used one of those specific gravity testers and all 6
>> cells showed 4 balls floating (100% charge).
>>
>> So---- was I getting hustled or what?

>
> You were getting hustled on the battery, that's for sure--and since the
> owner's manual is specific about "wait until the MM say so," you should
> pursue this issue with disinterested third parties to try to find out
> what's really going on. Honda in years past was very firm on the three
> year rule for brake fluid. Suddenly it's MM driven? And you've gone
> over four years???
>
> There's a story here somewhere.
>
> My concern is that Honda is abusing the MM as a marketing tool, to make
> maintenance costs seem lower. Suddenly the physical properties of brake
> fluid changed significantly enough that Honda can tell by your DRIVING
> STYLE (as reported by the computer) whether the fluid should be OK or
> not????
>
> I am not convinced.


i haven't checked, but i'd be surprised if the brake fluid is anything
other than time dependent [because of its hygroscopy] - the maintenance
minder doesn't log that afaik.

as for the battery, what worries me about this story is them saying
they've done a hydrometer test. this is a sealed battery - to get a
hydrometer in there requires breaking the seals [and thus the honda 120
month pro-rated warranty]. in addition, a lot of modern electrolytes
are gels, not liquids, so no hydrometer testing there!

bottom line, i think this is a troll - someone who knows how to use a
hydrometer on a gel electrolyte, and how to open a sealed battery
without damage doesn't need to ask on usenet about whether their test
results are ok or not. this "chick afraid she's being taken for a ride"
simply doesn't add up.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 06:07 pm
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
newsJ6dnXnu4JlyxJfTnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:


> as for the battery, what worries me about this story is them saying
> they've done a hydrometer test. this is a sealed battery - to get a
> hydrometer in there requires breaking the seals [and thus the honda
> 120 month pro-rated warranty]. in addition, a lot of modern
> electrolytes are gels, not liquids, so no hydrometer testing there!


Many "sealed" or "maintenance-free" auto batteries actually have caps that
can be removed to access individual cells. the caps usually plug 3 cells
each. They are not advertised as removable.
As far as breaking the seals and voiding the warranty,if it's a Honda tech
doing it,it is not voiding the warranty.
I also didn't see where the OP said the service person did an electrolyte
test. They could have done a battery load test,that doesn't involve
breaking any seals. Besides,a hydrometer test only shows the state of
charge of a cell,not whether it is losing capacity from sulfation or other
types of battery degradation.

I don't believe gelled electrolyte cells are used for automotive
applications.

also,automotive battery life depends on conditions that very in different
areas of the country. Hot climates mean shorter battery life,and high
vibration environments also shorten battery life. Like driving a lot on
rough roads.It shakes the paste from the lead grids,and it falls to the
bottom of the cell,and eventually rises high enough to short out the cell.
>
> bottom line, i think this is a troll - someone who knows how to use a
> hydrometer on a gel electrolyte, and how to open a sealed battery
> without damage doesn't need to ask on usenet about whether their test
> results are ok or not. this "chick afraid she's being taken for a
> ride" simply doesn't add up.
>
>




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 06:47 pm
Savannah Sue
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

On 6/28/11 6:47 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 06/28/2011 03:00 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article<iucruc$1fj$1@news.albasani.net>,
>> Savannah Sue<ss@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> After half hour, the service weasel comes and sits next to me in the
>>> waiting room with a sheath of papers in hand. He spoke in a tone of
>>> voice that reminded me of a doctor telling a patient he had a dread
>>> disease and only 3 months to live.
>>>
>>> He said my brake fluid was showing a slight greenish tinge-- it should
>>> be clear. He said the owner's manual called for replacement after 3
>>> years and as I was a year past that, I'd better change it.

>>
>> Well, he smells like he just came from managing a Jiffy Lube and is used
>> to doing this smarmy kind of thing--
>>
>> --but it's true, Honda's story for years has been that brake fluid is
>> time-dependent and the interval is three years.
>>
>> I do it every three years, like clockwork.
>>
>>
>>
>>> He also told
>>> me my battery (51 months old) was reading "bad" and needed to be
>>> replaced as well.

>>
>> You have a tool at your disposal that is unavailable to us men: you can
>> play dumb and sweet, and get out of there very quickly.
>>
>> Did he show you any stats on that battery?
>>
>> Time to take it somewhere else to check out the charging system if
>> you're worried, but frankly I wouldn't be worried. Let the battery die,
>> or wait until winter, or whatever. But a battery is a simple thing.
>>
>> Batteries Plus will check your system for you, AND will put a new
>> battery in if need be.
>>
>> But if you're worried get a second opinion, regardless.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Well, I've looked in the owner's manual and it specifically says the
>>> brake fluid should be changed when called for by the Mileage Minder--
>>> nothing about a timed interval. I also checked the battery sight-eye (it
>>> was green) and used one of those specific gravity testers and all 6
>>> cells showed 4 balls floating (100% charge).
>>>
>>> So---- was I getting hustled or what?

>>
>> You were getting hustled on the battery, that's for sure--and since the
>> owner's manual is specific about "wait until the MM say so," you should
>> pursue this issue with disinterested third parties to try to find out
>> what's really going on. Honda in years past was very firm on the three
>> year rule for brake fluid. Suddenly it's MM driven? And you've gone
>> over four years???
>>
>> There's a story here somewhere.
>>
>> My concern is that Honda is abusing the MM as a marketing tool, to make
>> maintenance costs seem lower. Suddenly the physical properties of brake
>> fluid changed significantly enough that Honda can tell by your DRIVING
>> STYLE (as reported by the computer) whether the fluid should be OK or
>> not????
>>
>> I am not convinced.

>
> i haven't checked, but i'd be surprised if the brake fluid is anything
> other than time dependent [because of its hygroscopy] - the maintenance
> minder doesn't log that afaik.
>
> as for the battery, what worries me about this story is them saying
> they've done a hydrometer test. this is a sealed battery - to get a
> hydrometer in there requires breaking the seals [and thus the honda 120
> month pro-rated warranty]. in addition, a lot of modern electrolytes are
> gels, not liquids, so no hydrometer testing there!
>
> bottom line, i think this is a troll - someone who knows how to use a
> hydrometer on a gel electrolyte, and how to open a sealed battery
> without damage doesn't need to ask on usenet about whether their test
> results are ok or not. this "chick afraid she's being taken for a ride"
> simply doesn't add up.
>
>



No, not a troll, not a sealed battery, and I didn't say the dealer did a
hydrometer test-- I did it. Please reread the OP.

Just looking for a little info and opinion on a NG that seems to have
mostly pretty knowledgeable posters-- a little paranoia and gynophobia
aside ;-)
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 07:05 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

On 06/28/2011 04:47 PM, Savannah Sue wrote:
> On 6/28/11 6:47 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 06/28/2011 03:00 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article<iucruc$1fj$1@news.albasani.net>,
>>> Savannah Sue<ss@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> After half hour, the service weasel comes and sits next to me in the
>>>> waiting room with a sheath of papers in hand. He spoke in a tone of
>>>> voice that reminded me of a doctor telling a patient he had a dread
>>>> disease and only 3 months to live.
>>>>
>>>> He said my brake fluid was showing a slight greenish tinge-- it should
>>>> be clear. He said the owner's manual called for replacement after 3
>>>> years and as I was a year past that, I'd better change it.
>>>
>>> Well, he smells like he just came from managing a Jiffy Lube and is used
>>> to doing this smarmy kind of thing--
>>>
>>> --but it's true, Honda's story for years has been that brake fluid is
>>> time-dependent and the interval is three years.
>>>
>>> I do it every three years, like clockwork.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> He also told
>>>> me my battery (51 months old) was reading "bad" and needed to be
>>>> replaced as well.
>>>
>>> You have a tool at your disposal that is unavailable to us men: you can
>>> play dumb and sweet, and get out of there very quickly.
>>>
>>> Did he show you any stats on that battery?
>>>
>>> Time to take it somewhere else to check out the charging system if
>>> you're worried, but frankly I wouldn't be worried. Let the battery die,
>>> or wait until winter, or whatever. But a battery is a simple thing.
>>>
>>> Batteries Plus will check your system for you, AND will put a new
>>> battery in if need be.
>>>
>>> But if you're worried get a second opinion, regardless.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well, I've looked in the owner's manual and it specifically says the
>>>> brake fluid should be changed when called for by the Mileage Minder--
>>>> nothing about a timed interval. I also checked the battery sight-eye
>>>> (it
>>>> was green) and used one of those specific gravity testers and all 6
>>>> cells showed 4 balls floating (100% charge).
>>>>
>>>> So---- was I getting hustled or what?
>>>
>>> You were getting hustled on the battery, that's for sure--and since the
>>> owner's manual is specific about "wait until the MM say so," you should
>>> pursue this issue with disinterested third parties to try to find out
>>> what's really going on. Honda in years past was very firm on the three
>>> year rule for brake fluid. Suddenly it's MM driven? And you've gone
>>> over four years???
>>>
>>> There's a story here somewhere.
>>>
>>> My concern is that Honda is abusing the MM as a marketing tool, to make
>>> maintenance costs seem lower. Suddenly the physical properties of brake
>>> fluid changed significantly enough that Honda can tell by your DRIVING
>>> STYLE (as reported by the computer) whether the fluid should be OK or
>>> not????
>>>
>>> I am not convinced.

>>
>> i haven't checked, but i'd be surprised if the brake fluid is anything
>> other than time dependent [because of its hygroscopy] - the maintenance
>> minder doesn't log that afaik.
>>
>> as for the battery, what worries me about this story is them saying
>> they've done a hydrometer test. this is a sealed battery - to get a
>> hydrometer in there requires breaking the seals [and thus the honda 120
>> month pro-rated warranty]. in addition, a lot of modern electrolytes are
>> gels, not liquids, so no hydrometer testing there!
>>
>> bottom line, i think this is a troll - someone who knows how to use a
>> hydrometer on a gel electrolyte, and how to open a sealed battery
>> without damage doesn't need to ask on usenet about whether their test
>> results are ok or not. this "chick afraid she's being taken for a ride"
>> simply doesn't add up.
>>
>>

>
>
> No, not a troll, not a sealed battery, and I didn't say the dealer did a
> hydrometer test-- I did it. Please reread the OP.


re-read /my/ post "sue" - my pronouns are correct.


>
> Just looking for a little info and opinion on a NG that seems to have
> mostly pretty knowledgeable posters-- a little paranoia and gynophobia
> aside ;-)


if you've done what you say you have. you know more about the battery
than the dealer does, thus the only reason to come here looking for
"sympathy" is because you're a troll. as confirmed by your unwarranted
"gynophobia" accusation.

buh-bye!


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 08:51 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

Savannah Sue <ss@nospam.net> wrote in
news:iudp6m$35i$1@news.albasani.net:



<big snip>


>
> Just looking for a little info and opinion on a NG that seems to have
> mostly pretty knowledgeable posters-- a little paranoia and gynophobia
> aside ;-)
>



Sorry, your smiley comes across as false. You'd better grow a thicker skin
if you want to post on Usenet. Plus, I see nothing in the previous replies
that even remotely qualifies as "gynophobia".
<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gynophobia>

As for your brake fluid:
If the Owner's Manual says to change it according to the Maintenance Minder
readout, then that's the final word.
It's never a bad idea to change the fluid MORE often, but it's not
absolutely essential provided you follow the Owner's Manual exactly.
But if I were following the Maintenance Minder instead of doing it every
year as I do, I'd be using genuine Honda brake fluid. It tends to be of
much higher-quality than aftermarket formulations.

As for the battery:
At 51 months, the battery may be near the end of its life or it may be
still springtime-fresh. Depends very much on how it's been cared for, and
how hot the weather gets in your area.
The definitive tests are these: 1) check the battery with a multimeter
according to proper procedures, and 2) listen to the engine's starting-
behavior.

Post here if you want to know how to properly check the battery's
charge-level.


--
Tegger
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 09:10 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

In article <iudp6m$35i$1@news.albasani.net>,
Savannah Sue <ss@nospam.net> wrote:

> Just looking for a little info and opinion on a NG that seems to have
> mostly pretty knowledgeable posters-- a little paranoia and gynophobia
> aside ;-)


"gynophobia"?
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jun 2011, 09:12 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Fluid and Battery replacement

In article <Xns9F12DE5E2EB6Etegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:

> But if I were following the Maintenance Minder instead of doing it every
> year as I do, I'd be using genuine Honda brake fluid. It tends to be of
> much higher-quality than aftermarket formulations.


Regardless, the MM is programmed to assume the Honda brake fluid that
was put in at the factory. So Tegger is right--mess with that at your
own risk.
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