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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21 Jun 2006, 08:39 pm
Dave Kelsen
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Default Mushy acceleration

OK, here's my problem, as best I can describe it:

'03 Accord 4 cyl, 84000 miles 5 speed Automatic transmission.

When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat delayed (by a
second or two). This is more or less noticeable, depending on my situation.

Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I manually put the
transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the accelerator 3/4 of the way
to the floor without getting much response at all. Only if I floor it,
thus shifting to first, do I get any real response. Otherwise, it's as
if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm talking 3/4 of the
accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it used to be much
more responsive.

Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote this off to the
increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C, but I'm losing more
(3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in previous summers.

My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no expert.

Opinions, please?

Thanks.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
Porque en noches como ésta la tuve entre mis brazos, mi alma no se
contenta con haberla perdido.
(Because through nights like this one I held her in my arms, my soul is
not satisfied that it has lost her.) - Pablo Neruda
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 21 Jun 2006, 08:48 pm
High Tech Misfit
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration

Dave Kelsen wrote:

> OK, here's my problem, as best I can describe it:
>
> '03 Accord 4 cyl, 84000 miles 5 speed Automatic transmission.
>
> When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat delayed (by a
> second or two). This is more or less noticeable, depending on my situation.
>
> Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I manually put the
> transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the accelerator 3/4 of the way
> to the floor without getting much response at all. Only if I floor it,
> thus shifting to first, do I get any real response. Otherwise, it's as
> if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm talking 3/4 of the
> accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it used to be much
> more responsive.
>
> Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote this off to the
> increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C, but I'm losing more
> (3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in previous summers.
>
> My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no expert.
>
> Opinions, please?
>
> Thanks.
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen


My first guess is a clogged fuel filter. I had similar symptoms with my '93
Accord earlier this year, and a new fuel filter made it run like new again.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 21 Jun 2006, 10:30 pm
Alan
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration


TOP POST

Something tells me that you're getting weak spark for some reason.


Dave Kelsen wrote:
> OK, here's my problem, as best I can describe it:
>
> '03 Accord 4 cyl, 84000 miles 5 speed Automatic transmission.
>
> When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat delayed (by a
> second or two). This is more or less noticeable, depending on my situation.
>
> Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I manually put the
> transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the accelerator 3/4 of the way
> to the floor without getting much response at all. Only if I floor it,
> thus shifting to first, do I get any real response. Otherwise, it's as
> if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm talking 3/4 of the
> accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it used to be much
> more responsive.
>
> Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote this off to the
> increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C, but I'm losing more
> (3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in previous summers.
>
> My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no expert.
>
> Opinions, please?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
> --
> Porque en noches como ésta la tuve entre mis brazos, mi alma no se
> contenta con haberla perdido.
> (Because through nights like this one I held her in my arms, my soul is
> not satisfied that it has lost her.) - Pablo Neruda


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 21 Jun 2006, 10:47 pm
Pilot41
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration

> When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat delayed (by a
> second or two). This is more or less noticeable, depending on my situation.
>
> Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I manually put the
> transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the accelerator 3/4 of the way
> to the floor without getting much response at all. Only if I floor it,
> thus shifting to first, do I get any real response. Otherwise, it's as
> if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm talking 3/4 of the
> accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it used to be much
> more responsive.
>
> Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote this off to the
> increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C, but I'm losing more
> (3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in previous summers.
>
> My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no expert.

Hmm...the gas mileage change is telling. It's probably an engine thing.
Possibly plugs/distributor (when was the last time you had a tune up?)
or worse. Clogged fuel filter doesn't seem like it would cause mileage
trouble. So my bet is induction (air filter etc) or ignition somewhere.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 22 Jun 2006, 12:58 am
Elle
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration

"Pilot41" <some_kind_of_zombie_@hotmail.com> wrote
OP wrote
>> When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat
>> delayed (by a
>> second or two). This is more or less noticeable,
>> depending on my situation.
>>
>> Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I
>> manually put the
>> transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the accelerator
>> 3/4 of the way
>> to the floor without getting much response at all. Only
>> if I floor it,
>> thus shifting to first, do I get any real response.
>> Otherwise, it's as
>> if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm
>> talking 3/4 of the
>> accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it used
>> to be much
>> more responsive.
>>
>> Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote this
>> off to the
>> increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C, but
>> I'm losing more
>> (3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in
>> previous summers.
>>
>> My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no
>> expert.

> Hmm...the gas mileage change is telling. It's probably an
> engine thing.
> Possibly plugs/distributor (when was the last time you had
> a tune up?)
> or worse. Clogged fuel filter doesn't seem like it would
> cause mileage
> trouble. So my bet is induction (air filter etc) or
> ignition somewhere.


In this vein, can the OP please state when a tuneup (new
plugs, air filter, fuel filter, possibly new ignition wires,
new distributor cap and rotor, timing check) was done?

Were genuine Honda parts used?


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 22 Jun 2006, 07:24 am
N.E.Ohio Bob
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration

Elle wrote:
> "Pilot41" <some_kind_of_zombie_@hotmail.com> wrote
> OP wrote
>
>>>When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat
>>>delayed (by a
>>>second or two). This is more or less noticeable,
>>>depending on my situation.
>>>


Throttle body need a good cleaning? bob
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 22 Jun 2006, 08:16 pm
Dave Kelsen
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration

On 6/21/2006 11:58 PM Elle spake these words of knowledge:

> "Pilot41" <some_kind_of_zombie_@hotmail.com> wrote
> OP wrote
>>> When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat
>>> delayed (by a
>>> second or two). This is more or less noticeable,
>>> depending on my situation.
>>>
>>> Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I
>>> manually put the
>>> transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the accelerator
>>> 3/4 of the way
>>> to the floor without getting much response at all. Only
>>> if I floor it,
>>> thus shifting to first, do I get any real response.
>>> Otherwise, it's as
>>> if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm
>>> talking 3/4 of the
>>> accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it used
>>> to be much
>>> more responsive.
>>>
>>> Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote this
>>> off to the
>>> increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C, but
>>> I'm losing more
>>> (3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in
>>> previous summers.
>>>
>>> My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no
>>> expert.

>> Hmm...the gas mileage change is telling. It's probably an
>> engine thing.
>> Possibly plugs/distributor (when was the last time you had
>> a tune up?)
>> or worse. Clogged fuel filter doesn't seem like it would
>> cause mileage
>> trouble. So my bet is induction (air filter etc) or
>> ignition somewhere.

>
> In this vein, can the OP please state when a tuneup (new
> plugs, air filter, fuel filter, possibly new ignition wires,
> new distributor cap and rotor, timing check) was done?
>
> Were genuine Honda parts used?


Hmmm. The dust/pollen filter and the air cleaner element were changed
in accordance with the maintenance schedule - at 30K and 60K miles.
It's about 6K miles from scheduled replacement for both these items.
Genuine Honda parts are used in replacing these filters. Plugs are
scheduled to be changed at 110K miles, and have not been done
previously. Fuel filter is not on maintenance schedule, and since it
has not given me trouble heretofore, it has not been replaced. Likewise
the plugwires.

My Helm manual starts the section about fuel filter replacement with,
"Remove the fuel pump". Damn.

As far as I know, this engine does not use a distributor, and so has no
cap or rotor.

Ah. I see that the first line of my original post got cut off somehow:

'03 Accord 4 cyl, 84000 miles 5 speed Automatic transmission.

Thanks for your suggestions. I sure hope it's not a fuel filter.
Manual says to check the fuel pressure after making sure the fuel pump
and fuel pressure regulator are OK. That means a trip to the dealer,
and I never seem to get kissed when I'm getting... well, you know. In
the old days, I'd have replaced a few things and seen what the results
were, but these days that's potentially very expensive.

Cleaning the throttle bodies sounds promising!


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
I like my women like I like my tractors. I can't get any more specific
than that. Please don't ask me to explain.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 22 Jun 2006, 11:18 pm
Elle
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration

"Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote
> On 6/21/2006 11:58 PM Elle spake these words of knowledge:
>
>> "Pilot41" <some_kind_of_zombie_@hotmail.com> wrote
>> OP wrote
>>>> When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat
>>>> delayed (by a
>>>> second or two). This is more or less noticeable,
>>>> depending on my situation.
>>>>
>>>> Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I
>>>> manually put the
>>>> transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the
>>>> accelerator 3/4 of the way
>>>> to the floor without getting much response at all.
>>>> Only if I floor it,
>>>> thus shifting to first, do I get any real response.
>>>> Otherwise, it's as
>>>> if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm
>>>> talking 3/4 of the
>>>> accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it
>>>> used to be much
>>>> more responsive.
>>>>
>>>> Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote
>>>> this off to the
>>>> increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C,
>>>> but I'm losing more
>>>> (3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in
>>>> previous summers.
>>>>
>>>> My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no
>>>> expert.
>>> Hmm...the gas mileage change is telling. It's probably
>>> an engine thing.
>>> Possibly plugs/distributor (when was the last time you
>>> had a tune up?)
>>> or worse. Clogged fuel filter doesn't seem like it would
>>> cause mileage
>>> trouble. So my bet is induction (air filter etc) or
>>> ignition somewhere.

>>
>> In this vein, can the OP please state when a tuneup (new
>> plugs, air filter, fuel filter, possibly new ignition
>> wires, new distributor cap and rotor, timing check) was
>> done?
>>
>> Were genuine Honda parts used?

>
> Hmmm. The dust/pollen filter and the air cleaner element
> were changed in accordance with the maintenance schedule -
> at 30K and 60K miles. It's about 6K miles from scheduled
> replacement for both these items. Genuine Honda parts are
> used in replacing these filters. Plugs are scheduled to
> be changed at 110K miles, and have not been done
> previously. Fuel filter is not on maintenance schedule,
> and since it has not given me trouble heretofore, it has
> not been replaced. Likewise the plugwires.
>
> My Helm manual starts the section about fuel filter
> replacement with, "Remove the fuel pump". Damn.
>
> As far as I know, this engine does not use a distributor,
> and so has no cap or rotor.
>
> Ah. I see that the first line of my original post got cut
> off somehow:
>
> '03 Accord 4 cyl, 84000 miles 5 speed Automatic
> transmission.
>
> Thanks for your suggestions. I sure hope it's not a fuel
> filter. Manual says to check the fuel pressure after
> making sure the fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator are
> OK.


I agree the car is too young in miles and years to make the
plugs, wires, or fuel filter suspect. You eliminate the air
filter above.

> That means a trip to the dealer, and I never seem to get
> kissed when I'm getting... well, you know. In the old
> days, I'd have replaced a few things and seen what the
> results were, but these days that's potentially very
> expensive.
>
> Cleaning the throttle bodies sounds promising!


I'd check the PCV valve, too, then run some PB Blaster or
carburetor/PCV cleaner through it. It's due for inspection
(or replacement, considering how cheap it is) about every
60k miles.

Car's also too young to have a failing oxygen sensor, plus I
think you'd get a check engine light for this.

Otherwise, unless you have some odd defect in any of the
above, this may be one for the transmission gurus, of which
I most certainly am not...

Updates welcome, to help others in the future.


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 22 Jun 2006, 11:59 pm
Pilot41
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration


Dave Kelsen wrote:
> On 6/21/2006 11:58 PM Elle spake these words of knowledge:
>
> > "Pilot41" <some_kind_of_zombie_@hotmail.com> wrote
> > OP wrote
> >>> When I accelerate, the response is generally somewhat
> >>> delayed (by a
> >>> second or two). This is more or less noticeable,
> >>> depending on my situation.
> >>>
> >>> Also, going up a fairly steep incline at 15 mph, I
> >>> manually put the
> >>> transmission in 2nd gear; I can then push the accelerator
> >>> 3/4 of the way
> >>> to the floor without getting much response at all. Only
> >>> if I floor it,
> >>> thus shifting to first, do I get any real response.
> >>> Otherwise, it's as
> >>> if it's in too high a gear - bogging. But a.) I'm
> >>> talking 3/4 of the
> >>> accelerator travel at 15 mph in 2nd gear, and b.) it used
> >>> to be much
> >>> more responsive.
> >>>
> >>> Also, my gas mileage is decreasing; at first I wrote this
> >>> off to the
> >>> increased (pretty much all the time) use of the A/C, but
> >>> I'm losing more
> >>> (3 -5 mpg) than I think I should, or than I have in
> >>> previous summers.
> >>>
> >>> My first thought is a transmission flush, but I'm no
> >>> expert.
> >> Hmm...the gas mileage change is telling. It's probably an
> >> engine thing.
> >> Possibly plugs/distributor (when was the last time you had
> >> a tune up?)
> >> or worse. Clogged fuel filter doesn't seem like it would
> >> cause mileage
> >> trouble. So my bet is induction (air filter etc) or
> >> ignition somewhere.

> >
> > In this vein, can the OP please state when a tuneup (new
> > plugs, air filter, fuel filter, possibly new ignition wires,
> > new distributor cap and rotor, timing check) was done?
> >
> > Were genuine Honda parts used?

>
> Hmmm. The dust/pollen filter and the air cleaner element were changed
> in accordance with the maintenance schedule - at 30K and 60K miles.
> It's about 6K miles from scheduled replacement for both these items.
> Genuine Honda parts are used in replacing these filters. Plugs are
> scheduled to be changed at 110K miles, and have not been done
> previously. Fuel filter is not on maintenance schedule, and since it
> has not given me trouble heretofore, it has not been replaced. Likewise
> the plugwires.
>
> My Helm manual starts the section about fuel filter replacement with,
> "Remove the fuel pump". Damn.
>
> As far as I know, this engine does not use a distributor, and so has no
> cap or rotor.
>
> Ah. I see that the first line of my original post got cut off somehow:
>
> '03 Accord 4 cyl, 84000 miles 5 speed Automatic transmission.
>
> Thanks for your suggestions. I sure hope it's not a fuel filter.
> Manual says to check the fuel pressure after making sure the fuel pump
> and fuel pressure regulator are OK. That means a trip to the dealer,
> and I never seem to get kissed when I'm getting... well, you know. In
> the old days, I'd have replaced a few things and seen what the results
> were, but these days that's potentially very expensive.
>
> Cleaning the throttle bodies sounds promising!
>
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
> --
> I like my women like I like my tractors. I can't get any more specific
> than that. Please don't ask me to explain.

Wait, am I reading your message clearly....84K miles and hasn't had
plugs done yet? If I'm reading correctly, that's pretty
high...especially considering my Haynes recommends new plugs every 15K
miles. I would at least pull them and check them...something that
doesn't really take much skill or specialized equipment. Even if the
problem isn't with the plugs themselves, they will at least give you
some indication as to what's going on in the engine. You should be able
to find a guide online or in your manual as to what issues will cause
the plugs to look a certain way. If I'm misreading your message and the
plugs have been changed recently...I don't know, good luck!

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 23 Jun 2006, 12:43 am
Elle
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mushy acceleration

"Pilot41" <some_kind_of_zombie_@hotmail.com> wrote
> Dave Kelsen wrote:
>> '03 Accord 4 cyl, 84000 miles 5 speed Automatic
>> transmission.


> Wait, am I reading your message clearly....84K miles and
> hasn't had
> plugs done yet?


Going from rough memory, I thought plugs on newer cars do in
fact last longer (or maybe plug technology itself is just
better; or the distributor-less system means less wear on
the plugs; etc.). So I didn't blink when the OP said his
weren't due until 110k miles.

The online Canadian maintenance calculator does indeed say
that a 2003 Accord 4-cylinder's plugs are not to be replaced
until 7.3 years or about 110k miles have passed. It also
says to inspect the plugs at about 60k miles and replace if
necessary.
http://www.honda.ca/HondaCA2006/Your...efault.htm?L=E

(I used Canada's site because it's easier to pull up than
American Honda's irritating "Owner's Link" site, and I doubt
the spec for the plugs differs much for American driving.)

Probably a good idea for the OP to at least pull the plugs
and inspect them. Maybe they are fouled. That would
certainly at least partly explain bad running and mileage.

> If I'm reading correctly, that's pretty
> high...especially considering my Haynes recommends new
> plugs every 15K
> miles.


What are you driving?

My 91 Civic's manual says to replace the plugs every 30k
miles or 2 years, whichever comes first.


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