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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jun 2011, 12:32 am
jim beam
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Default oil filters and engine noise

here's something for high mileage honda drivers - engine clatter on
startup is pretty much to be expected on a honda. or so i thought. but
doing some filter spec homework, i find that there are oversized filters
available that will fit b, d, f, & h series engines, and when used on my
high mileage d and f series engines, make their cold start noise almost
disappear.

it would seem that less flow resistance [due to larger filter media
area] allows sufficient oil flow to occur even with the oil cold. it's
an immediate and very noticeable transformation.

anyway, i put it out there fwiw. the filter is wix 51344. it's used on
industrial isuzu and mitsubishi engines. i'm sure other manufacturer
equivalents will work just fine too - with the usual proviso about
manufacturer quality.


--
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jun 2011, 06:58 am
C. E. White
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Default Re: oil filters and engine noise


"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:OLqdnWv_eejKb2vQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> here's something for high mileage honda drivers - engine clatter on
> startup is pretty much to be expected on a honda. or so i thought. but
> doing some filter spec homework, i find that there are oversized filters
> available that will fit b, d, f, & h series engines, and when used on my
> high mileage d and f series engines, make their cold start noise almost
> disappear.
>
> it would seem that less flow resistance [due to larger filter media area]
> allows sufficient oil flow to occur even with the oil cold. it's an
> immediate and very noticeable transformation.
>
> anyway, i put it out there fwiw. the filter is wix 51344. it's used on
> industrial isuzu and mitsubishi engines. i'm sure other manufacturer
> equivalents will work just fine too - with the usual proviso about
> manufacturer quality.


Have you tried the Wix filter recommended for Hondas (51334) as a
comparison? I took a look at both 51334 and 51344 at the Wix site and see
that the 51344 is almost an inch taller (4.069 vs 3.194) but it also has a
slightly samller overall diameter (3.242 vs 3.252). I would have thought
when the oil was cold, either filter would go into bypass mode (they have
the same bypass vale setting). The 51344 has a slightly higher Micron rating
(21 vs 19) which implies a slightly more open filter (and more flow), but
this seems trivial (especially for an older engine). I do wonder about the
gasket sizes - they are a little different (the recommended Honda filter
gasket has a slightly smaller OD, but is significantly ticker). They are
close enough I would think it made no difference, but it is worth verifying
that it is unimportant.

The 51334 info is at
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51334
The 51344 info is at
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344

Any chance part of the reason the Wix works better on start up is that it
has a better anti-drain back valve than other Honda filters you have tried?
I know for the Ford modular V8 having a good ADBV is crucial to preventing
clater on start-up.

Back when my Sister had a Civic I used the 51334 Wix filter often and never
recall her engine clattering (The car had around 140,000 miles when she sold
it, but then we are in NC where it rarely gets really cold).

Ed


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jun 2011, 09:23 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: oil filters and engine noise

On 06/14/2011 04:58 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:OLqdnWv_eejKb2vQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> here's something for high mileage honda drivers - engine clatter on
>> startup is pretty much to be expected on a honda. or so i thought. but
>> doing some filter spec homework, i find that there are oversized filters
>> available that will fit b, d, f,& h series engines, and when used on my
>> high mileage d and f series engines, make their cold start noise almost
>> disappear.
>>
>> it would seem that less flow resistance [due to larger filter media area]
>> allows sufficient oil flow to occur even with the oil cold. it's an
>> immediate and very noticeable transformation.
>>
>> anyway, i put it out there fwiw. the filter is wix 51344. it's used on
>> industrial isuzu and mitsubishi engines. i'm sure other manufacturer
>> equivalents will work just fine too - with the usual proviso about
>> manufacturer quality.

>
> Have you tried the Wix filter recommended for Hondas (51334) as a
> comparison? I took a look at both 51334 and 51344 at the Wix site and see
> that the 51344 is almost an inch taller (4.069 vs 3.194) but it also has a
> slightly samller overall diameter (3.242 vs 3.252). I would have thought
> when the oil was cold, either filter would go into bypass mode (they have
> the same bypass vale setting). The 51344 has a slightly higher Micron rating
> (21 vs 19) which implies a slightly more open filter (and more flow), but
> this seems trivial (especially for an older engine). I do wonder about the
> gasket sizes - they are a little different (the recommended Honda filter
> gasket has a slightly smaller OD, but is significantly ticker). They are
> close enough I would think it made no difference, but it is worth verifying
> that it is unimportant.
>
> The 51334 info is at
> http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51334
> The 51344 info is at
> http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344
>
> Any chance part of the reason the Wix works better on start up is that it
> has a better anti-drain back valve than other Honda filters you have tried?
> I know for the Ford modular V8 having a good ADBV is crucial to preventing
> clater on start-up.
>
> Back when my Sister had a Civic I used the 51334 Wix filter often and never
> recall her engine clattering (The car had around 140,000 miles when she sold
> it, but then we are in NC where it rarely gets really cold).
>
> Ed
>
>


thanks for presuming i hadn't thunk of a single damned thing you said
ed. yes, i've tried the other filter, and actually, the gasket sizes
are identical. [i've got, compared and tried all /three/ different
sizes of filter available in fact.]

now, you go ahead and look up the valve materials, bypass pressures, can
burst pressures, capacities, colors available floral scents, then see if
you can presume anything else i hadn't thunk about or bothered to
research before going to the trouble of posting on a public forum where
people like you might be hanging out with nothing better to do.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jun 2011, 10:25 am
C. E. White
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: oil filters and engine noise


"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xqednc7JbZ5q82rQnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> On 06/14/2011 04:58 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:OLqdnWv_eejKb2vQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> here's something for high mileage honda drivers - engine clatter on
>>> startup is pretty much to be expected on a honda. or so i thought. but
>>> doing some filter spec homework, i find that there are oversized filters
>>> available that will fit b, d, f,& h series engines, and when used on my
>>> high mileage d and f series engines, make their cold start noise almost
>>> disappear.
>>>
>>> it would seem that less flow resistance [due to larger filter media
>>> area]
>>> allows sufficient oil flow to occur even with the oil cold. it's an
>>> immediate and very noticeable transformation.
>>>
>>> anyway, i put it out there fwiw. the filter is wix 51344. it's used on
>>> industrial isuzu and mitsubishi engines. i'm sure other manufacturer
>>> equivalents will work just fine too - with the usual proviso about
>>> manufacturer quality.

>>
>> Have you tried the Wix filter recommended for Hondas (51334) as a
>> comparison? I took a look at both 51334 and 51344 at the Wix site and see
>> that the 51344 is almost an inch taller (4.069 vs 3.194) but it also has
>> a
>> slightly samller overall diameter (3.242 vs 3.252). I would have thought
>> when the oil was cold, either filter would go into bypass mode (they have
>> the same bypass vale setting). The 51344 has a slightly higher Micron
>> rating
>> (21 vs 19) which implies a slightly more open filter (and more flow), but
>> this seems trivial (especially for an older engine). I do wonder about
>> the
>> gasket sizes - they are a little different (the recommended Honda filter
>> gasket has a slightly smaller OD, but is significantly ticker). They are
>> close enough I would think it made no difference, but it is worth
>> verifying
>> that it is unimportant.
>>
>> The 51334 info is at
>> http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51334
>> The 51344 info is at
>> http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344
>>
>> Any chance part of the reason the Wix works better on start up is that it
>> has a better anti-drain back valve than other Honda filters you have
>> tried?
>> I know for the Ford modular V8 having a good ADBV is crucial to
>> preventing
>> clater on start-up.
>>
>> Back when my Sister had a Civic I used the 51334 Wix filter often and
>> never
>> recall her engine clattering (The car had around 140,000 miles when she
>> sold
>> it, but then we are in NC where it rarely gets really cold).
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>

>
> thanks for presuming i hadn't thunk of a single damned thing you said ed.
> yes, i've tried the other filter, and actually, the gasket sizes are
> identical. [i've got, compared and tried all /three/ different sizes of
> filter available in fact.]
>
> now, you go ahead and look up the valve materials, bypass pressures, can
> burst pressures, capacities, colors available floral scents, then see if
> you can presume anything else i hadn't thunk about or bothered to research
> before going to the trouble of posting on a public forum where people like
> you might be hanging out with nothing better to do.
>

Geez, easy fellow. I was curious. Once I looked the filters up, I thought I
would share the infomration I found. It doesn't hurt to share information
does it? The WIX info shows the gaskets as being slightly different but they
are very close. I never meant to imply that you had not done your homework,
but I was curious if there were any differences other than size. I was a
little surprised that a filter that is at most 25% larger made that much of
a difference at start-up.

Ed


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jun 2011, 10:41 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: oil filters and engine noise

On 06/14/2011 08:25 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:Xqednc7JbZ5q82rQnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> On 06/14/2011 04:58 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:OLqdnWv_eejKb2vQnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> here's something for high mileage honda drivers - engine clatter on
>>>> startup is pretty much to be expected on a honda. or so i thought. but
>>>> doing some filter spec homework, i find that there are oversized filters
>>>> available that will fit b, d, f,& h series engines, and when used on my
>>>> high mileage d and f series engines, make their cold start noise almost
>>>> disappear.
>>>>
>>>> it would seem that less flow resistance [due to larger filter media
>>>> area]
>>>> allows sufficient oil flow to occur even with the oil cold. it's an
>>>> immediate and very noticeable transformation.
>>>>
>>>> anyway, i put it out there fwiw. the filter is wix 51344. it's used on
>>>> industrial isuzu and mitsubishi engines. i'm sure other manufacturer
>>>> equivalents will work just fine too - with the usual proviso about
>>>> manufacturer quality.
>>>
>>> Have you tried the Wix filter recommended for Hondas (51334) as a
>>> comparison? I took a look at both 51334 and 51344 at the Wix site and see
>>> that the 51344 is almost an inch taller (4.069 vs 3.194) but it also has
>>> a
>>> slightly samller overall diameter (3.242 vs 3.252). I would have thought
>>> when the oil was cold, either filter would go into bypass mode (they have
>>> the same bypass vale setting). The 51344 has a slightly higher Micron
>>> rating
>>> (21 vs 19) which implies a slightly more open filter (and more flow), but
>>> this seems trivial (especially for an older engine). I do wonder about
>>> the
>>> gasket sizes - they are a little different (the recommended Honda filter
>>> gasket has a slightly smaller OD, but is significantly ticker). They are
>>> close enough I would think it made no difference, but it is worth
>>> verifying
>>> that it is unimportant.
>>>
>>> The 51334 info is at
>>> http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51334
>>> The 51344 info is at
>>> http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51344
>>>
>>> Any chance part of the reason the Wix works better on start up is that it
>>> has a better anti-drain back valve than other Honda filters you have
>>> tried?
>>> I know for the Ford modular V8 having a good ADBV is crucial to
>>> preventing
>>> clater on start-up.
>>>
>>> Back when my Sister had a Civic I used the 51334 Wix filter often and
>>> never
>>> recall her engine clattering (The car had around 140,000 miles when she
>>> sold
>>> it, but then we are in NC where it rarely gets really cold).
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>

>>
>> thanks for presuming i hadn't thunk of a single damned thing you said ed.
>> yes, i've tried the other filter, and actually, the gasket sizes are
>> identical. [i've got, compared and tried all /three/ different sizes of
>> filter available in fact.]
>>
>> now, you go ahead and look up the valve materials, bypass pressures, can
>> burst pressures, capacities, colors available floral scents, then see if
>> you can presume anything else i hadn't thunk about or bothered to research
>> before going to the trouble of posting on a public forum where people like
>> you might be hanging out with nothing better to do.
>>

> Geez, easy fellow. I was curious. Once I looked the filters up, I thought I
> would share the infomration I found. It doesn't hurt to share information
> does it? The WIX info shows the gaskets as being slightly different but they
> are very close. I never meant to imply that you had not done your homework,
> but I was curious if there were any differences other than size. I was a
> little surprised that a filter that is at most 25% larger made that much of
> a difference at start-up.
>
> Ed


the reason i didn't bother to regurgitate the stuff anyone interested
enough can look up for themselves is that it's not the differentiator.
the differentiator is the /result/. and yes, it does make that much of
a difference. for $6, the skeptic can even go ahead and confirm this
for themselves.

the reason for the difference is not the physical size of the can, it's
the area of filter media - more media simply offers less flow
resistance. the difference between 21 and 19 microns is irrelevant,
particularly when the original oem spec was 25.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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