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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05 Jun 2006, 07:33 am
dgk
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Default 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

92000 miles. I came home the other day to find the car in a foot of
water, three inches inside. It started, I drove it around. I turned it
off and a bit later it started. It ran until I pulled into my
driveway, which is about a 40 degree angle down. The car ran another
30 seconds or so while I was bailing out water, and then died.

I had it towed out and placed on level ground but three days later it
still won't start. It has rained each day though so it isn't getting
dry. It cranks just fine, but it won't start.

I guess either wires/spark plugs are wet? Or water got in the fuel
line? I can't figure why it worked fine until I pulled onto that
slope.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05 Jun 2006, 07:56 am
Elle
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Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

Is the Check Engine Light on for two seconds after the
ignition is turned on? If not, the ECU (engine/electronic
computer/control unit) is suspect. With water this deep, one
casualty is often the ECU. It is located in the passenger
footwell, about a few inches above the floor... Perhaps upon
driving onto the slope, water in it sloshed around further.
An ECU test procedure for your Accord appears at
http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m.../400/6-152.pdf

If the ECU seems okay, next check for spark and fuel per the
directions at http://tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html
..

"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote
> 92000 miles. I came home the other day to find the car in
> a foot of
> water, three inches inside. It started, I drove it around.
> I turned it
> off and a bit later it started. It ran until I pulled into
> my
> driveway, which is about a 40 degree angle down. The car
> ran another
> 30 seconds or so while I was bailing out water, and then
> died.
>
> I had it towed out and placed on level ground but three
> days later it
> still won't start. It has rained each day though so it
> isn't getting
> dry. It cranks just fine, but it won't start.
>
> I guess either wires/spark plugs are wet? Or water got in
> the fuel
> line? I can't figure why it worked fine until I pulled
> onto that
> slope.
>
> Any advice greatly appreciated.



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05 Jun 2006, 08:23 am
dgk
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Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 12:56:37 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>Is the Check Engine Light on for two seconds after the
>ignition is turned on? If not, the ECU (engine/electronic
>computer/control unit) is suspect. With water this deep, one
>casualty is often the ECU. It is located in the passenger
>footwell, about a few inches above the floor... Perhaps upon
>driving onto the slope, water in it sloshed around further.
>An ECU test procedure for your Accord appears at
>http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m.../400/6-152.pdf
>
>If the ECU seems okay, next check for spark and fuel per the
>directions at http://tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html
>.


Thanks. I think the Check Engine light was coming on it normally does.
There was a little water in the passenger side but the real water was
in the driver side. That's the way the car was tilting in the spot.

I'm at work now so can't check the car but I will when I get home
later. I'm not much good at car repair (I'm a software guy and this is
hardware) but I can likely see if a sparkplug is firing.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2006, 03:42 am
Burt
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Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message news:jt888296sharhjhtd0omjs6491ujkg9sln@4ax.com...

> 92000 miles. I came home the other day to find the car in a foot of
> water, three inches inside. It started, I drove it around. I turned it
> off and a bit later it started. It ran until I pulled into my
> driveway, which is about a 40 degree angle down. The car ran another
> 30 seconds or so while I was bailing out water, and then died.
> I had it towed out and placed on level ground but three days later it
> still won't start. It has rained each day though so it isn't getting
> dry. It cranks just fine, but it won't start.
> I guess either wires/spark plugs are wet? Or water got in the fuel
> line? I can't figure why it worked fine until I pulled onto that slope.
>Any advice greatly appreciated.


When ever the car is water flooded the ECU is protected by its
conformal coating which is design for this purpose. It's the
corrosion elsewhere that can fry the ECU.

A word of advice. Whenever the car is flooded, the access panel from
parts should be removed and the parts dried quickly after being removed
from water. Don't start the car. A large fan on the engine bay and on the
car's interior should do the trick, but peel back those carpets.

















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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2006, 01:14 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.



Burt wrote:
>
> "dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message news:jt888296sharhjhtd0omjs6491ujkg9sln@4ax.com...
>
> > 92000 miles. I came home the other day to find the car in a foot of
> > water, three inches inside. It started, I drove it around. I turned it
> > off and a bit later it started. It ran until I pulled into my
> > driveway, which is about a 40 degree angle down. The car ran another
> > 30 seconds or so while I was bailing out water, and then died.
> > I had it towed out and placed on level ground but three days later it
> > still won't start. It has rained each day though so it isn't getting
> > dry. It cranks just fine, but it won't start.
> > I guess either wires/spark plugs are wet? Or water got in the fuel
> > line? I can't figure why it worked fine until I pulled onto that slope.
> >Any advice greatly appreciated.

>
> When ever the car is water flooded the ECU is protected by its
> conformal coating which is design for this purpose. It's the
> corrosion elsewhere that can fry the ECU.
>
> A word of advice. Whenever the car is flooded, the access panel from
> parts should be removed and the parts dried quickly after being removed
> from water. Don't start the car. A large fan on the engine bay and on the
> car's interior should do the trick, but peel back those carpets.




There are companies that specialize in rehabbing "drowned" cars to the
extent that they do as you suggested over a period of days (depending on
the severity of the dunking) and check engines, trannies, brake systems
for water infiltration etc.

Time is of the essence here if damage was caused by salt water. If the
vehicle was dunked in fresh water, time is not so important regarding
the engine as I've seen cars revived after sitting for ten years. It's
a messy process however...

JT
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2006, 08:41 pm
TeGGeR®
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

"Burt" <burtsquareman@none.com> wrote in
news:ydbhg.111601$dW3.1371@newssvr21.news.prodigy. com:

>
> When ever the car is water flooded the ECU is protected by its
> conformal coating which is design for this purpose.



Others in this group over the years have reported visible corrosion on the
PCB. The coating must not be perfect.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2006, 09:20 pm
Michael Pardee
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Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns97DADCD0CB998tegger@207.14.116.130...
> "Burt" <burtsquareman@none.com> wrote in
> news:ydbhg.111601$dW3.1371@newssvr21.news.prodigy. com:
>
>>
>> When ever the car is water flooded the ECU is protected by its
>> conformal coating which is design for this purpose.

>
>
> Others in this group over the years have reported visible corrosion on the
> PCB. The coating must not be perfect.
>

I haven't personally heard of an ECU (Honda or otherwise) that survived
getting wet. My son's '89 (?) Accord he had in Washington state got about an
inch of water in the floor during a flood and the ECU was severely damaged,
although the engine still ran after a fashion. It drank gasoline like crazy
and the "check engine" light stayed on. More commonly, flooded ECUs just
fail completely. A replacement from a wrecking yard is the obvious solution;
his was $75 although others can cost over $100 US.

FWIW, back when I worked in avionics a navigation system was brought in by
an insurance adjuster because the pilot said it failed in heavy rain. I
worked on it as he watched, and sure enough the first thing we saw inside
was heavy water spotting, starting at the cooling fitting. But why was it
dead? All the boards were coated with urethane. I found an open circuit
board trace in the power supply. On very close examination (good light and
magnifying glass) we could see there was a pinhole in the coating and where
that hole in the coating was the trace underneath was gone. A piece of wire
soldered across the gap and a swab of urethane made it as good as new... and
it left me with a new respect for the corrosive power of the combination of
water and DC.

Mike


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07 Jun 2006, 08:48 am
Burt
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote

> I haven't personally heard of an ECU (Honda or otherwise) that survived
> getting wet. My son's '89 (?) Accord he had in Washington state got about an
> inch of water in the floor during a flood and the ECU was severely damaged,
> although the engine still ran after a fashion. It drank gasoline like crazy
> and the "check engine" light stayed on. More commonly, flooded ECUs just
> fail completely. A replacement from a wrecking yard is the obvious solution;
> his was $75 although others can cost over $100 US.
>
> FWIW, back when I worked in avionics a navigation system was brought in by
> an insurance adjuster because the pilot said it failed in heavy rain. I
> worked on it as he watched, and sure enough the first thing we saw inside
> was heavy water spotting, starting at the cooling fitting. But why was it
> dead? All the boards were coated with urethane. I found an open circuit
> board trace in the power supply. On very close examination (good light and
> magnifying glass) we could see there was a pinhole in the coating and where
> that hole in the coating was the trace underneath was gone. A piece of wire
> soldered across the gap and a swab of urethane made it as good as new... and
> it left me with a new respect for the corrosive power of the combination of
> water and DC.
> Mike


Honda's ECU's are comparable to the aviation technology. Many other
automakers don't go to the extent that Honda does. The ones that do go bad
from moisture are probably from users who didn't know where or how to
remove the seat to get to the ECU quickly.

When my non-coated electronic equipments fell off a boat they were all
quickly handled. They've cheated death and still running strong today.











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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07 Jun 2006, 01:43 pm
TeGGeR®
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

"Burt" <burtsquareman@none.com> wrote in
news:3PAhg.133244$F_3.76466@newssvr29.news.prodigy .net:

> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>
>> I haven't personally heard of an ECU (Honda or otherwise) that
>> survived getting wet. My son's '89 (?) Accord he had in Washington
>> state got about an inch of water in the floor during a flood and the
>> ECU was severely damaged, although the engine still ran after a
>> fashion. It drank gasoline like crazy and the "check engine" light
>> stayed on. More commonly, flooded ECUs just fail completely. A
>> replacement from a wrecking yard is the obvious solution; his was $75
>> although others can cost over $100 US.
>>
>> FWIW, back when I worked in avionics a navigation system was brought
>> in by an insurance adjuster because the pilot said it failed in heavy
>> rain. I worked on it as he watched, and sure enough the first thing
>> we saw inside was heavy water spotting, starting at the cooling
>> fitting. But why was it dead? All the boards were coated with
>> urethane. I found an open circuit board trace in the power supply. On
>> very close examination (good light and magnifying glass) we could see
>> there was a pinhole in the coating and where that hole in the coating
>> was the trace underneath was gone. A piece of wire soldered across
>> the gap and a swab of urethane made it as good as new... and it left
>> me with a new respect for the corrosive power of the combination of
>> water and DC.
>> Mike

>
> Honda's ECU's are comparable to the aviation technology. Many other
> automakers don't go to the extent that Honda does. The ones that do go
> bad from moisture are probably from users who didn't know where or how
> to remove the seat to get to the ECU quickly.




Like I said...


>
> When my non-coated electronic equipments fell off a boat they were all
> quickly handled. They've cheated death and still running strong today.
>
>
>



I dropped a cordless phone into a swimming pool once. Rescued it (once we
figured out where it had gone), took it apart, left it in the sun, and it's
fine now. Still using it.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jun 2006, 10:05 pm
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 90 Accord got flooded - won't start after 3 days. Help.

"Burt" <burtsquareman@none.com> wrote in message
news:3PAhg.133244$F_3.76466@newssvr29.news.prodigy .net...
>
> When my non-coated electronic equipments fell off a boat they were all
> quickly handled. They've cheated death and still running strong today.
>


Time is definitely of the essence, since the electrolysis occurs like
clockwork. I think an hour is okay, but overnight is definitely too long. If
the car is found flooded in the morning, the outlook is grim indeed.

Mike


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