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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27 May 2011, 03:06 am
Bryan Williams
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Default 88 civic LX D15B3 timing marks

I am looking for someone to verify the timing marks on my old civic's
D15B3 engine before I put it back together. my manuals list many
engines, but not this one specifically. the pointer on the crank
shaft; no problem. I am wondering about the cam marks though. level
marks horizontal seems to no want to line up when the belts on. I
could be wrong though and just need to look at it again. I want to
make sure this isn't one of those motors that use the mark on the
bottom pointing down at an angle.

Anyone had experience with this motor???
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Old 27 May 2011, 11:35 am
jim beam
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Default Re: 88 civic LX D15B3 timing marks

On 05/27/2011 01:06 AM, Bryan Williams wrote:
> I am looking for someone to verify the timing marks on my old civic's
> D15B3 engine before I put it back together. my manuals list many
> engines, but not this one specifically. the pointer on the crank
> shaft; no problem. I am wondering about the cam marks though. level
> marks horizontal seems to no want to line up when the belts on.


sounds like the belt's off a tooth. when set right, everything is
exactly on.


> I
> could be wrong though and just need to look at it again. I want to
> make sure this isn't one of those motors that use the mark on the
> bottom pointing down at an angle.


not the d15. if you want, you can use a mark against that pointer, but
you'll have to scribe your own. it's 5.5° off the "d16" mark - approx
the edge of one tooth. but even that's not a great indicator because in
some cases, the plastic cover has gotten hot and distorts slightly so
what you're pointing at won't line up exactly. that's not the case with
the d15 - the metal head edges don't go anywhere!


>
> Anyone had experience with this motor???


make sure you have the right marks on the crank - sometimes, because of
rust or bad light under the hood, it's possible to mistake the crank tdc
for the ignition timing marks.

one more thing - don't over-tighten that belt. the cam bearing is just
the soft aluminum of the head. over-tightening munches that cam through
the head and tears will flow. follow the tensioning procedure in the
manual to the letter. [if you're using a haynes "manual", advise you
take it out to the back yard, pour gasoline over it and ignite. worse
than useless.] make sure the tensioning pulley is free to slide - make
sure it's clean and the bolt is not so loose it doesn't sit square.
yes, that weak little spring is all the tension you need.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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Old 27 May 2011, 11:41 am
Tegger
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Default Re: 88 civic LX D15B3 timing marks

Bryan Williams <bryan.cfii@gmail.com> wrote in news:26f90f58-aad4-4023-
8674-f1f7914038a5@n11g2000yqf.googlegroups.com:

> I am looking for someone to verify the timing marks on my old civic's
> D15B3 engine before I put it back together. my manuals list many
> engines, but not this one specifically. the pointer on the crank
> shaft; no problem. I am wondering about the cam marks though. level
> marks horizontal seems to no want to line up when the belts on. I
> could be wrong though and just need to look at it again. I want to
> make sure this isn't one of those motors that use the mark on the
> bottom pointing down at an angle.
>
> Anyone had experience with this motor???




You should have an "UP" mark on the cam pulley. The horizontal lines should
line up with the head surface, not with the horizon.

And when you line up the crank pulley, you sight the TDC mark from directly
overhead. There are pins on the front of the timing cover that are used as
"sights".

--
Tegger
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 27 May 2011, 01:58 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 88 civic LX D15B3 timing marks

On 05/27/2011 09:41 AM, Tegger wrote:
> Bryan Williams<bryan.cfii@gmail.com> wrote in news:26f90f58-aad4-4023-
> 8674-f1f7914038a5@n11g2000yqf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I am looking for someone to verify the timing marks on my old civic's
>> D15B3 engine before I put it back together. my manuals list many
>> engines, but not this one specifically. the pointer on the crank
>> shaft; no problem. I am wondering about the cam marks though. level
>> marks horizontal seems to no want to line up when the belts on. I
>> could be wrong though and just need to look at it again. I want to
>> make sure this isn't one of those motors that use the mark on the
>> bottom pointing down at an angle.
>>
>> Anyone had experience with this motor???

>
>
>
> You should have an "UP" mark on the cam pulley. The horizontal lines should
> line up with the head surface, not with the horizon.
>
> And when you line up the crank pulley, you sight the TDC mark from directly
> overhead. There are pins on the front of the timing cover that are used as
> "sights".
>


if you have the covers and the main crank pulley off, there's also a
pointer on the oil pump housing that lines up with a mark on the crank's
tooth belt pulley. probably have to wipe crud off it, but it's there
and quite handy.

tdc on the crank pulley is the single mark, not the triple.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 27 May 2011, 05:59 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 88 civic LX D15B3 timing marks

jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:VP6dnTLMafLfaULQnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

> On 05/27/2011 09:41 AM, Tegger wrote:
>> Bryan Williams<bryan.cfii@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:26f90f58-aad4-4023-
>> 8674-f1f7914038a5@n11g2000yqf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> I am looking for someone to verify the timing marks on my old
>>> civic's D15B3 engine before I put it back together. my manuals list
>>> many engines, but not this one specifically. the pointer on the
>>> crank shaft; no problem. I am wondering about the cam marks though.
>>> level marks horizontal seems to no want to line up when the belts
>>> on. I could be wrong though and just need to look at it again. I
>>> want to make sure this isn't one of those motors that use the mark
>>> on the bottom pointing down at an angle.
>>>
>>> Anyone had experience with this motor???

>>
>>
>>
>> You should have an "UP" mark on the cam pulley. The horizontal lines
>> should line up with the head surface, not with the horizon.
>>
>> And when you line up the crank pulley, you sight the TDC mark from
>> directly overhead. There are pins on the front of the timing cover
>> that are used as "sights".
>>

>
> if you have the covers and the main crank pulley off, there's also a
> pointer on the oil pump housing that lines up with a mark on the
> crank's tooth belt pulley. probably have to wipe crud off it, but
> it's there and quite handy.




It does make things simpler, that's for sure.


>
> tdc on the crank pulley is the single mark, not the triple.
>
>



In my area, the pulley rusts and the paint comes off. That can make it hard
to find all the marks, and a surprising number of people miss the single
mark that's off by itself. All the more reason to use the oil-pump mark as
a startinmg point.


--
Tegger
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 27 May 2011, 06:16 pm
Bryan Williams
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Default Re: 88 civic LX D15B3 timing marks

You guys really came through, thanks! This is what I needed.

I have it torn all the way down because I replaced the water pump and
thus the belt too. The mark on the crank gear was not what I expected!
Small and subtle, especially when dirty. I wasn't sure what I was
looking at so I took it off and cleaned it, I kind of expected
something more or bigger. Thats when I went back to the oil pump and
uncovered the arrow that was also non existent due to black crud. The
cam gear line up seems real straight forward.

I think I had everything right, but I think I fell apart when it cam
to putting the belt on. I think I was leaving some slack on the front/
radiator side, and was introducing that tooth off problem but not
seeing it until I tensioned it. Its all about the details... And then
I started to second guess the relevant reference marks because of
something I saw in the Haynes book. I have my Honda Service Manual for
my 95 civic that I have used most of the time actually because it just
seems to cross over because the engines really aren't all that
different. However, it is specific for that 1995 generation and
doesn't reference this 1988 motor directly. Thats where I got weird
about it.

So should I expect much of a difference when it comes to shining a
timing light on that crank pulley? Should I expect the need for fine
adjusting on the distributor, or maybe not out at all? I have never
timed these Honda's. All the years I have owned many it has not come
up until now. Looks like I have to jumper or short a connector at a
module under the hood?

You guys gave me great details. Especially on the tensioning part. I
am a second guesser when it comes to tensioning belts. I just am.

So it sounds like in my case: I line the gears up, put the timing belt
on, seat it, tension it, rotate it, check tension, then, everything
should still line up as original. When the crank pulley is on, the
white stand alone mark should line up with the "gun" sights. With that
lined up, it is TDC. In a perfect world the cam will lined up level
with the top of the head at the same time. I'm pretty sure this is
right but any feed back is more than welcome...

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Old 29 May 2011, 12:45 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 88 civic LX D15B3 timing marks

On 05/27/2011 04:16 PM, Bryan Williams wrote:
> You guys really came through, thanks! This is what I needed.
>
> I have it torn all the way down because I replaced the water pump and
> thus the belt too. The mark on the crank gear was not what I expected!
> Small and subtle, especially when dirty. I wasn't sure what I was
> looking at so I took it off and cleaned it, I kind of expected
> something more or bigger. Thats when I went back to the oil pump and
> uncovered the arrow that was also non existent due to black crud. The
> cam gear line up seems real straight forward.
>
> I think I had everything right, but I think I fell apart when it cam
> to putting the belt on. I think I was leaving some slack on the front/
> radiator side, and was introducing that tooth off problem but not
> seeing it until I tensioned it. Its all about the details... And then
> I started to second guess the relevant reference marks because of
> something I saw in the Haynes book. I have my Honda Service Manual for
> my 95 civic that I have used most of the time actually because it just
> seems to cross over because the engines really aren't all that
> different. However, it is specific for that 1995 generation and
> doesn't reference this 1988 motor directly. Thats where I got weird
> about it.


same engine family, same procedures.


>
> So should I expect much of a difference when it comes to shining a
> timing light on that crank pulley? Should I expect the need for fine
> adjusting on the distributor, or maybe not out at all?


you should re-time it. when set correctly, the distributor should be
pretty much dead center of its slots. start there and adjust
accordingly. do when the motor is at normal operating temp.


> I have never
> timed these Honda's. All the years I have owned many it has not come
> up until now. Looks like I have to jumper or short a connector at a
> module under the hood?


for the 88, yes, under the hood. it's near the driver side motor mount.
use a paper clip. it's particularly important on the 88 for some reason.


>
> You guys gave me great details. Especially on the tensioning part. I
> am a second guesser when it comes to tensioning belts. I just am.
>
> So it sounds like in my case: I line the gears up, put the timing belt
> on, seat it, tension it, rotate it,


no. you line it up, put the belt on, rotate it three times, /then/ set
the tension when the cam is in the position it states in the book. and
the tension is done by the pulley spring, not you. only rotate the
engine counter-clockwise from the pulley end.

the tension pulley bolt can be finicky. unless you've already put it
all back together, take the pulley off and wipe down the sliding surface
of the block, and the back of the pulley. apply a little engine oil to
make sure it slides right, then put back into position with the tension
spring in place. tighten the bolt by hand so it keeps the face of the
sliding surfaces square with each other without tilting, but is still
free to slide. finger tight basically.

then, when you've got the belt on, timed, and ready to tension, tighten
the bolt with a ratchet and socket [preferably torque wrench!] and rock
backwards and forwards on it slightly as you tighten. this is crucial
because if the bolt is too loose, the pulley tilts and digs in at a
position so that when as it tightens, it puts excess tension on the
belt. and if you don't believe that excess belt tension can cause
misery, go to a junkyard and look at some of the honda cylinder heads
you'll find there. lots of tears.


> check tension, then, everything
> should still line up as original. When the crank pulley is on, the
> white stand alone mark should line up with the "gun" sights. With that
> lined up, it is TDC.


yup.


> In a perfect world the cam will lined up level
> with the top of the head at the same time. I'm pretty sure this is
> right but any feed back is more than welcome...


correct.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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