Honda Car Forum

Jason wrote:
> In article <B9KdnaoDCp6iRNPZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> , jim beam
> <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>>jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>jim beam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Jason wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <xL23g.184$ud.158@trndny03>, "MLD" <MLD@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news4WdnbRwdsvVR9bZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@sedo na.net...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"MLD" <MLD@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>news:ZmQ2g.4048$cc.137@trndny05...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"BE" <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:C070EA45.4B250%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcgl obal.net...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>My 2001 Odyssey is consuming oil at what I think is an alarming
>
> rate. A
>
>>>>>>>>>>>couple months ago the oil light came on - I immediately shut the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>vehicle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>off
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>and ended up adding 3 quarts of oil. I checked it again the other day
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>had to add half a quart.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This engine only has 41K miles. It does not put out blue smoke; there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>no
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>oil spots in our garage. Don't tell me that this can possibly
>
> be normal
>
>>>>>>>>>>>consumption??? Where could this oil be going?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>Be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Daughter's Civic, 55,000 miles and just out of warranty, had the same
>>>>>>>>>>problem--oil didn't show up on the dip stick. Filled the oil to the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>full
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>mark and within 250 mi it was below the dip stick again.
>
> Because it was
>
>>>>>>>>>>so
>>>>>>>>>>severe an oil loss, the Dealer got Honda's OK to look for the problem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>only parts to be charged. Found some cracked carbon valve seals,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>replaced
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>them and put things back together again. Same oil loss
>
> recurred. Honda
>
>>>>>>>>>>authorized as complete an engine teardown as needed to find and
>
> resolve
>
>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>>no further $$$ charged. Tore the engine down and found some bad
>
> piston
>
>>>>>>>>>>rings; replaced them all and the oil loss problem went away. So she
>>>>>>>>>>basically ended up with a rebuilt engine *zero timed* for very little
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>cost
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>to her. Honda's response to the problem was excellent,
>
> obviously their
>
>>>>>>>>>>concern and motivation was "How many more are there out there
>
> like this,
>
>>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>>there something about 55,000 mi. in this engine that we've got
>
> to worry
>
>>>>>>>>>>about and if so, what. She got the car new and was putting about
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>400-500
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>mi
>>>>>>>>>>a week on it so it was probably one of the fleet leaders in mileage.
>>>>>>>>>>MLD
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Do you know if a compression test had been done prior to teardown
>
> and if
>
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>rings were compression or oil control? I'd expect a dealer to do
>
> at least
>
>>>>>>>>>one compression test (that probably came out okay enough) and
>
> swallow hard
>
>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>couple times before tearing an engine down.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Don't know what the dealer did to troubleshoot--In fact, before
>
> they even
>
>>>>>>>>started doing anything, they actually drained and refilled the oil
>
> and sent
>
>>>>>>>>her on her way. After the 250 mi and no oil on the dip stick
>
> they became
>
>>>>>>>>believers. Obviously, the cracked (broken) rings were not
>
> associated with
>
>>>>>>>>compression, the dealer wasn't that bad. Honda responded as well
>
> as they
>
>>>>>>>>did because 55,000 miles is relatively low for their engine and
>
> the need to
>
>>>>>>>>know if this was "one of a kind" or a symptom of "what was to come" from
>>>>>>>>that family. BTW, she ended up with over 200,000 miles before
>
> giving the
>
>>>>>>>>car up.
>>>>>>>>MLD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>MLD,
>>>>>>>In most cases, if there is a defective ring--it can be detected by a
>>>>>>>compression check. I was surprised that the Honda mechanic did not
>
> conduct
>
>>>>>>>a compression check prior to a teardown of the engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>if they were an experienced professional, they'd know that a broken top
>>>>>>ring makes the most difference to compression [and little difference to
>>>>>>oil consumption], the second ring, much less to compression [and a
>>>>>>reasonable difference to oil consumption], and the oil control rings,
>>>>>>none at all to compression, [but a whole ship-load to oil consumption].
>>>>>>since oil loss is the the problem, and lack of compression apparently
>>>>>>not, what conclusions do you draw here about the efficacy of a
>>>>>>compression test here jason? hint: the professional mechanics' actions
>>>>>>here should give you a clue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Perhaps the
>>>>>>>mechanic conducted a compression check and done the teardown of the
>
> engine
>
>>>>>>>as a direct result of the compression check test results.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>dude, compression can vary quite a lot from cylinder to cylinder, and
>>>>>>the engine still be perfectly serviceable with little oil consumption.
>>>>>>i respectfully suggest you either get some training and experience under
>>>>>>your belt OR you stick to topics you actually /do/ know about. thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Uh, all ring sets contribute to compression AND oil control.
>>>>>
>>>>>As an example, a couple of years ago I inherited an early 1980's Mazda
>>>>>B2000 P/U with about 160K miles on the odometer that was running lousy
>>>>>along with oil control problems. The reason, three pistons had broken
>>>>>compression rings.
>>>>>
>>>>>In real life, cause and effect can vary widely vs. the published word...
>>>>>
>>>>>JT
>>>>
>>>>uh, re-read my post. the extent of compression and oil consumpton
>>>>effect varies by ring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Uh, you clearly stated that a compression ring makes little difference
>>>as relates to oil control.
>>
>>there are 3 rings: top and middle compression, bottom oil control.
>>re-read what i said.
>>
>>
>>> In fact, any broken compression ring will
>>>substantially affect oil control.
>>
>>out of the 3, the top ring has the least effect!
>>
>>
>>>Additionally, broken oil or 2nd compression rings are rare since the
>>>malady is often caused by incorrect timing (or some other direct factor)
>>>that leads to detonation which is the chief culprit as to ring breakage.
>>
>>yes, it's usually true that the top ring goes, but it's not always the
>>case. and yes, it can increase oil consumption, but it's not as bad as
>>the other rings. re-read what i said.
>>
>>
>>>JT
>
>
> Jim,
> I have a question for you. I was taught that the best method of detecting
> ring problems was to conduct a compression check.

for general engine health, i.e. how well it's coping with accumulated
mileage, that's true. but in the situation cited originally in this
thread, it's not guaranteed to diagnose the problem because defective
oil control rings make almost no difference to compression. you're
therefore left with logical deduction - if all other causes have been
eliminated, it's the rings.

> Other than taking the
> engine apart, are there now better methods of detecting ring problems? If
> so, what are so methods?

oil/excess deposits on one spark plug is a dead giveaway. in addition,
oil analysis could do it, if conducted regularly. but in a situation
where the engine's suddenly dry, analysis is not an option. that
unfortunately leaves you with strip-down. but even then, there's not
too much point messing about worrying what went wrong - once stripped, a
motor needs to be rebuilt anyway and all the wearing parts need to be
replaced, so just toss the pistons and rings and start again.

> Jason
>

In article <4450130C.E7C16FC7@spam.now>, say.no@spam.now wrote:

> Jason wrote:
>
> > I have a question for you. I was taught that the best method of detecting
> > ring problems was to conduct a compression check. Other than taking the
> > engine apart, are there now better methods of detecting ring problems? If
> > so, what are so methods?
>
> You could do a wet vs. dry compression test as well as a leak down test.
>
> Eric

Eric,
Thanks for your post. I have read about the leak down test but have never
done one.
Jason

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NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

In article <XJCdncfTa_dRsc3ZRVn-vQ@speakeasy.net>, jim beam
<nospam@example.net> wrote:

> Jason wrote:
> > In article <B9KdnaoDCp6iRNPZnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> , jim beam
> > <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> >>
> >>>jim beam wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>jim beam wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Jason wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>In article <xL23g.184$ud.158@trndny03>, "MLD" <MLD@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>news4WdnbRwdsvVR9bZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@sedo na.net...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>"MLD" <MLD@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>news:ZmQ2g.4048$cc.137@trndny05...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>"BE" <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>news:C070EA45.4B250%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcgl obal.net...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>My 2001 Odyssey is consuming oil at what I think is an alarming
> >
> > rate. A
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>couple months ago the oil light came on - I immediately shut the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>vehicle
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>off
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>and ended up adding 3 quarts of oil. I checked it again the
other day
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>had to add half a quart.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>This engine only has 41K miles. It does not put out blue
smoke; there
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>are
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>no
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>oil spots in our garage. Don't tell me that this can possibly
> >
> > be normal
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>consumption??? Where could this oil be going?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>Be
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Daughter's Civic, 55,000 miles and just out of warranty, had
the same
> >>>>>>>>>>problem--oil didn't show up on the dip stick. Filled the oil to the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>full
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>mark and within 250 mi it was below the dip stick again.
> >
> > Because it was
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>so
> >>>>>>>>>>severe an oil loss, the Dealer got Honda's OK to look for the
problem
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>with
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>only parts to be charged. Found some cracked carbon valve seals,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>replaced
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>them and put things back together again. Same oil loss
> >
> > recurred. Honda
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>authorized as complete an engine teardown as needed to find and
> >
> > resolve
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>with
> >>>>>>>>>>no further $$$ charged. Tore the engine down and found some bad
> >
> > piston
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>rings; replaced them all and the oil loss problem went away. So she
> >>>>>>>>>>basically ended up with a rebuilt engine *zero timed* for very
little
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>cost
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>to her. Honda's response to the problem was excellent,
> >
> > obviously their
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>concern and motivation was "How many more are there out there
> >
> > like this,
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>is
> >>>>>>>>>>there something about 55,000 mi. in this engine that we've got
> >
> > to worry
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>about and if so, what. She got the car new and was putting about
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>400-500
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>mi
> >>>>>>>>>>a week on it so it was probably one of the fleet leaders in mileage.
> >>>>>>>>>>MLD
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Do you know if a compression test had been done prior to teardown
> >
> > and if
> >
> >>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>rings were compression or oil control? I'd expect a dealer to do
> >
> > at least
> >
> >>>>>>>>>one compression test (that probably came out okay enough) and
> >
> > swallow hard
> >
> >>>>>>>>a
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>couple times before tearing an engine down.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Mike
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Don't know what the dealer did to troubleshoot--In fact, before
> >
> > they even
> >
> >>>>>>>>started doing anything, they actually drained and refilled the oil
> >
> > and sent
> >
> >>>>>>>>her on her way. After the 250 mi and no oil on the dip stick
> >
> > they became
> >
> >>>>>>>>believers. Obviously, the cracked (broken) rings were not
> >
> > associated with
> >
> >>>>>>>>compression, the dealer wasn't that bad. Honda responded as well
> >
> > as they
> >
> >>>>>>>>did because 55,000 miles is relatively low for their engine and
> >
> > the need to
> >
> >>>>>>>>know if this was "one of a kind" or a symptom of "what was to
come" from
> >>>>>>>>that family. BTW, she ended up with over 200,000 miles before
> >
> > giving the
> >
> >>>>>>>>car up.
> >>>>>>>>MLD
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>MLD,
> >>>>>>>In most cases, if there is a defective ring--it can be detected by a
> >>>>>>>compression check. I was surprised that the Honda mechanic did not
> >
> > conduct
> >
> >>>>>>>a compression check prior to a teardown of the engine.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>if they were an experienced professional, they'd know that a broken top
> >>>>>>ring makes the most difference to compression [and little difference to
> >>>>>>oil consumption], the second ring, much less to compression [and a
> >>>>>>reasonable difference to oil consumption], and the oil control rings,
> >>>>>>none at all to compression, [but a whole ship-load to oil consumption].
> >>>>>>since oil loss is the the problem, and lack of compression apparently
> >>>>>>not, what conclusions do you draw here about the efficacy of a
> >>>>>>compression test here jason? hint: the professional mechanics' actions
> >>>>>>here should give you a clue.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Perhaps the
> >>>>>>>mechanic conducted a compression check and done the teardown of the
> >
> > engine
> >
> >>>>>>>as a direct result of the compression check test results.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>dude, compression can vary quite a lot from cylinder to cylinder, and
> >>>>>>the engine still be perfectly serviceable with little oil consumption.
> >>>>>>i respectfully suggest you either get some training and experience under
> >>>>>>your belt OR you stick to topics you actually /do/ know about. thanks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Uh, all ring sets contribute to compression AND oil control.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>As an example, a couple of years ago I inherited an early 1980's Mazda
> >>>>>B2000 P/U with about 160K miles on the odometer that was running lousy
> >>>>>along with oil control problems. The reason, three pistons had broken
> >>>>>compression rings.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>In real life, cause and effect can vary widely vs. the published word...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>JT
> >>>>
> >>>>uh, re-read my post. the extent of compression and oil consumpton
> >>>>effect varies by ring.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Uh, you clearly stated that a compression ring makes little difference
> >>>as relates to oil control.
> >>
> >>there are 3 rings: top and middle compression, bottom oil control.
> >>re-read what i said.
> >>
> >>
> >>> In fact, any broken compression ring will
> >>>substantially affect oil control.
> >>
> >>out of the 3, the top ring has the least effect!
> >>
> >>
> >>>Additionally, broken oil or 2nd compression rings are rare since the
> >>>malady is often caused by incorrect timing (or some other direct factor)
> >>>that leads to detonation which is the chief culprit as to ring breakage.
> >>
> >>yes, it's usually true that the top ring goes, but it's not always the
> >>case. and yes, it can increase oil consumption, but it's not as bad as
> >>the other rings. re-read what i said.
> >>
> >>
> >>>JT
> >
> >
> > Jim,
> > I have a question for you. I was taught that the best method of detecting
> > ring problems was to conduct a compression check.
>
> for general engine health, i.e. how well it's coping with accumulated
> mileage, that's true. but in the situation cited originally in this
> thread, it's not guaranteed to diagnose the problem because defective
> oil control rings make almost no difference to compression. you're
> therefore left with logical deduction - if all other causes have been
> eliminated, it's the rings.
>
> > Other than taking the
> > engine apart, are there now better methods of detecting ring problems? If
> > so, what are so methods?
>
> oil/excess deposits on one spark plug is a dead giveaway. in addition,
> oil analysis could do it, if conducted regularly. but in a situation
> where the engine's suddenly dry, analysis is not an option. that
> unfortunately leaves you with strip-down. but even then, there's not
> too much point messing about worrying what went wrong - once stripped, a
> motor needs to be rebuilt anyway and all the wearing parts need to be
> replaced, so just toss the pistons and rings and start again.

Jim,
Thanks for the information. I learned some things that I did not know.
The oil analysis appears to be an excellent option.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

On 4/24/06 12:26 PM, in article
jason-2404061026550001@66-52-22-63.l...ia.impulse.net, "Jason"
<jason@nospam.com> wrote:

> In article <C071962A.4B2E4%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net>, BE
> <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> How much do I drive in a couple months? Well, here's the math. The car is
>> one-owner and has been mine for 58 months. It has 41000 miles. That's a
>> shade less than 707 miles per month.... Not an amount that should scare me
>> into checking it weekly, at least not (in my opinion) when a car with
>> Honda's good reputation behind it has less miles on it than some people
>> drive in 18 months.
>>
>> Be
>>
>
> Be,
> It's my guess that the the rings are starting to wear. A compression check
> during the next scheduled oil change service should reveal any serious
> problems related to the rings. You may also want to have a tune-up in case
> the valves, timing, etc need to be adjusted. If you have a oil change and
> the oil becomes black within two weeks--that could be a sign of a bad head
> gasket. I advise you to check the oil about once a week in order to check
> the level and the color of the oil. Keep a record of the results.
> Jason

I checked the oil again Saturday and had to add another quart to bring it to
full. I took note of the mileage and will be ready with a hard number of
miles driven when I add the next quart.

I think the advice here has been valuable and suspect the rings problem now
due to the input given. I'll let you all know how this turns out.

Thanks!
Be

"BE" <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:C07BAD01.4B9D1%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net.. .
> On 4/24/06 12:26 PM, in article
>
> I checked the oil again Saturday and had to add another quart to bring it
> to
> full. I took note of the mileage and will be ready with a hard number of
> miles driven when I add the next quart.
>
> I think the advice here has been valuable and suspect the rings problem
> now
> due to the input given. I'll let you all know how this turns out.
>
> Thanks!
> Be
>
>
Yup - that's what it is sounding like. Best of luck to you.

Mike

On 4/24/06 12:26 PM, in article
jason-2404061026550001@66-52-22-63.l...ia.impulse.net, "Jason"
<jason@nospam.com> wrote:

> In article <C071962A.4B2E4%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net>, BE
> <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> How much do I drive in a couple months? Well, here's the math. The car is
>> one-owner and has been mine for 58 months. It has 41000 miles. That's a
>> shade less than 707 miles per month.... Not an amount that should scare me
>> into checking it weekly, at least not (in my opinion) when a car with
>> Honda's good reputation behind it has less miles on it than some people
>> drive in 18 months.
>>
>> Be
>>
>
> Be,
> It's my guess that the the rings are starting to wear. A compression check
> during the next scheduled oil change service should reveal any serious
> problems related to the rings. You may also want to have a tune-up in case
> the valves, timing, etc need to be adjusted. If you have a oil change and
> the oil becomes black within two weeks--that could be a sign of a bad head
> gasket. I advise you to check the oil about once a week in order to check
> the level and the color of the oil. Keep a record of the results.
> Jason

I checked the oil again Saturday and had to add another quart to bring it to
full. I took note of the mileage and will be ready with a hard number of
miles driven when I add the next quart.

I think the advice here has been valuable and suspect the rings problem now
due to the input given. I'll let you all know how this turns out.

Thanks!
Be

===============================

OK - here is what I found. I filled the oil to full and took an odometer
reading. Some three weeks [667 miles] later, I needed to add 3/4 of a quart
to bring it back to full again. You could extrapolate that out to say that
for every 900 miles a quart is being consumed.

Be

On Sun, 28 May 2006 17:10:10 GMT, BE <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>On 4/24/06 12:26 PM, in article
>jason-2404061026550001@66-52-22-63.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net, "Jason"
><jason@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <C071962A.4B2E4%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net>, BE
>> <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> How much do I drive in a couple months? Well, here's the math. The car is
>>> one-owner and has been mine for 58 months. It has 41000 miles. That's a
>>> shade less than 707 miles per month.... Not an amount that should scare me
>>> into checking it weekly, at least not (in my opinion) when a car with
>>> Honda's good reputation behind it has less miles on it than some people
>>> drive in 18 months.
>>>
>>> Be
>>>
>>
>> Be,
>> It's my guess that the the rings are starting to wear. A compression check
>> during the next scheduled oil change service should reveal any serious
>> problems related to the rings. You may also want to have a tune-up in case
>> the valves, timing, etc need to be adjusted. If you have a oil change and
>> the oil becomes black within two weeks--that could be a sign of a bad head
>> gasket. I advise you to check the oil about once a week in order to check
>> the level and the color of the oil. Keep a record of the results.
>> Jason
>
>I checked the oil again Saturday and had to add another quart to bring it to
>full. I took note of the mileage and will be ready with a hard number of
>miles driven when I add the next quart.
>
>I think the advice here has been valuable and suspect the rings problem now
>due to the input given. I'll let you all know how this turns out.
>
>Thanks!
>Be
>
>===============================
>
>OK - here is what I found. I filled the oil to full and took an odometer
>reading. Some three weeks [667 miles] later, I needed to add 3/4 of a quart
>to bring it back to full again. You could extrapolate that out to say that
>for every 900 miles a quart is being consumed.
>
>Be

That's a problem. File a warranty claim.

On 5/28/06 5:03 PM, in article 8g7k72927bc1unje5cb8oe4hvp79qe1oja@4ax.com,
"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 28 May 2006 17:10:10 GMT, BE <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/24/06 12:26 PM, in article
>> jason-2404061026550001@66-52-22-63.l...ia.impulse.net, "Jason"
>> <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <C071962A.4B2E4%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net>, BE
>>> <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How much do I drive in a couple months? Well, here's the math. The car is
>>>> one-owner and has been mine for 58 months. It has 41000 miles. That's a
>>>> shade less than 707 miles per month.... Not an amount that should scare me
>>>> into checking it weekly, at least not (in my opinion) when a car with
>>>> Honda's good reputation behind it has less miles on it than some people
>>>> drive in 18 months.
>>>>
>>>> Be
>>>>
>>>
>>> Be,
>>> It's my guess that the the rings are starting to wear. A compression check
>>> during the next scheduled oil change service should reveal any serious
>>> problems related to the rings. You may also want to have a tune-up in case
>>> the valves, timing, etc need to be adjusted. If you have a oil change and
>>> the oil becomes black within two weeks--that could be a sign of a bad head
>>> gasket. I advise you to check the oil about once a week in order to check
>>> the level and the color of the oil. Keep a record of the results.
>>> Jason
>>
>> I checked the oil again Saturday and had to add another quart to bring it to
>> full. I took note of the mileage and will be ready with a hard number of
>> miles driven when I add the next quart.
>>
>> I think the advice here has been valuable and suspect the rings problem now
>> due to the input given. I'll let you all know how this turns out.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Be
>>
>> ===============================
>>
>> OK - here is what I found. I filled the oil to full and took an odometer
>> reading. Some three weeks [667 miles] later, I needed to add 3/4 of a quart
>> to bring it back to full again. You could extrapolate that out to say that
>> for every 900 miles a quart is being consumed.
>>
>> Be
>
> That's a problem. File a warranty claim.
>
Took it to the Honda dealer today. The service rep claims that what I am
experiencing is 'normal' oil consumption. He cites some technical bulletin
written in 1988 that gives validity to the notion that a quart of oil lost
every 1000 miles is normal. I just spoke to Honda at their toll-free
customer service number and they are also claiming that this is their spec.
They are not willing to open the engine unless I foot the bill.

What to do now? My inclination is to let an authorized Honda service center
do an oil change and not add any oil for the next 3500 miles, letting the
engine burn up. I only hope that it doesn't choose to fail when I'm in it
with the family on a tall highway bridge. My warranty doesn't obligate me to
top it off between oil changes.

Be

BE wrote:

My warranty doesn't obligate me to top it off between oil changes.

--------------------------------

Hmmmmmmm. Careful . . . . Even lawyers can read the Owner's Manual.

'Curly'

BE wrote:
>
> Took it to the Honda dealer today. The service rep claims that what I am
> experiencing is 'normal' oil consumption. He cites some technical bulletin
> written in 1988 that gives validity to the notion that a quart of oil lost
> every 1000 miles is normal. I just spoke to Honda at their toll-free
> customer service number and they are also claiming that this is their
> spec. They are not willing to open the engine unless I foot the bill.
>
> What to do now? My inclination is to let an authorized Honda service
> center do an oil change and not add any oil for the next 3500 miles,
> letting the engine burn up. I only hope that it doesn't choose to fail
> when I'm in it with the family on a tall highway bridge. My warranty
> doesn't obligate me to top it off between oil changes.

That's funny. My '88 Civic with 244,800 miles on it uses less than 0.25
quarts in 3000 miles. Moreover, a service bulletin written in 1988 is not
going to be applicable to a newer car. How could they have known what
problems a 2005 model, for example, was going to have in 1988?!?!?

You may need to get someone to be your advocate and deal with Honda. I
would take your car to a well respected independent Honda shop in your area
and have them change the oil and then document the consumption (and absence
of leaks). Then have them deal with Honda for you if they are willing,
e.g., you've been or will be a good customer of that particular shop.
Moreover, sometimes it's best to skip the dealer and go direct to Honda's
customer relations.

http://automobiles.honda.com/info/cu...ons.asp?bhjs=0

Eric