Honda Car Forum

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:52:04 -0700, vairox <nothere@spammasters.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:26:43 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>> "vairox" <nothere@spammasters.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kfkn42tvaipokjplcnm1arlpqt85j3rehc@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:33:47 GMT, "Elle"
>>>><honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>what are the other causes of high nox? high combustion chamber temps
>>>>due to carbon buildup is one but im not sure of any others
>>>>
>>>
>>> Technically, the causes are high temperatures and rapid cooling, which
>>> causes the NOx to "freeze" instead of decaying as the gases cooled.
>>>
>>> Since the expansion time is pretty much determined by engine speed, that
>>> leaves combustion temperature as the factor we can control. Carbon really
>>> isn't an issue directly, but it can cause preignition which has the same
>>> effect as advanced ignition timing. The two big culprits are ignition timing
>>> and mixture. Advanced timing increases combustion temperatures, and a leaner
>>> mixture at high throttle settings (when it should be rich anyway to
>>> forestall detonation) does the same. EGR reduces the temperature by diluting
>>> the mixture without affecting the air/fuel ratio.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>>good post. yes, check timing and mixture. mixture can be assisted by
>>running a couple of tanks with injector cleaner through the vehicle.
>>timing should be set with the maintenance jumper connected. and it
>>should be dead-on, not just close. regarding egr, it's often addressed
>>these days by increasing the overlap between exhaust and inlet valve
>>timing, so make sure the valve clearances are correct.
>>
>>to the op, no, an oil catch can is illegal in california.
>
>
>why is a catch can illegal?
>
>good advice guys, someone from another newsgroup claims that the car
>DOES use an EGR and said to go to
>
>http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/publicweb_bg.asp
>
>then put in part # EGV551
>
>
>i can see a mount near the valve cover where one WOULD go, but i think
>the only cars of this era that had one are the ex and vx ?
>
>may have to adjust the valves, it's pretty tough to get the timing
>dead on considering the rpm's go up when the fan kicks on to cool the
>engine, and finding 650rpm's EXACTLY on the tach is just a guess.

btw, rockauto.com is also coming up with the same product for the
D15B7, and that mount area is on the backside of where the valve cover
is, looks like where it would bolt on, only theres no opening into the
engine there, or is there supposed to be?

vairox wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:26:43 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>>"vairox" <nothere@spammasters.com> wrote in message
>>>news:kfkn42tvaipokjplcnm1arlpqt85j3rehc@4ax.com ...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:33:47 GMT, "Elle"
>>>><honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>what are the other causes of high nox? high combustion chamber temps
>>>>due to carbon buildup is one but im not sure of any others
>>>>
>>>
>>>Technically, the causes are high temperatures and rapid cooling, which
>>>causes the NOx to "freeze" instead of decaying as the gases cooled.
>>>
>>>Since the expansion time is pretty much determined by engine speed, that
>>>leaves combustion temperature as the factor we can control. Carbon really
>>>isn't an issue directly, but it can cause preignition which has the same
>>>effect as advanced ignition timing. The two big culprits are ignition timing
>>>and mixture. Advanced timing increases combustion temperatures, and a leaner
>>>mixture at high throttle settings (when it should be rich anyway to
>>>forestall detonation) does the same. EGR reduces the temperature by diluting
>>>the mixture without affecting the air/fuel ratio.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>>good post. yes, check timing and mixture. mixture can be assisted by
>>running a couple of tanks with injector cleaner through the vehicle.
>>timing should be set with the maintenance jumper connected. and it
>>should be dead-on, not just close. regarding egr, it's often addressed
>>these days by increasing the overlap between exhaust and inlet valve
>>timing, so make sure the valve clearances are correct.
>>
>>to the op, no, an oil catch can is illegal in california.
>
>
>
> why is a catch can illegal?

because vapor still vents to atmosphere. you have to operate a closed
crank case in ca.

>
> good advice guys, someone from another newsgroup claims that the car
> DOES use an EGR and said to go to
>
> http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/publicweb_bg.asp
>
> then put in part # EGV551

that's a honda egr valve ok. but if you don't have one, you don't have
one! they're only on the automatics.

>
>
> i can see a mount near the valve cover where one WOULD go, but i think
> the only cars of this era that had one are the ex and vx ?
>
> may have to adjust the valves, it's pretty tough to get the timing
> dead on considering the rpm's go up when the fan kicks on to cool the
> engine, and finding 650rpm's EXACTLY on the tach is just a guess.

two things:

1. unless the spec is changed for the 92-95, the d15 idles at 750 +/- 25
rpm. look up the procedure for adjusting idle correctly, then leave the
engine management computer to do its job. /it/ controls idle speed -
/you/ don't!

2. the timing set-up procedure requires the use of an electrical jumper
which tells the ecu to keep ignition timing locked back. when you
examine the timing under strobe with the jumper installed, the timing
marks are very steady.* if the jumper is removed for normal operation,
the marks jump about because the ecu is always electronically adjusting
timing.


*. if the timing marks are /not/ steady with the jumper connected,
re-tension the timing belt - it's not been set correctly.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:52:09 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
wrote:

>vairox wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:26:43 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>
>>>>"vairox" <nothere@spammasters.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:kfkn42tvaipokjplcnm1arlpqt85j3rehc@4ax.co m...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:33:47 GMT, "Elle"
>>>>><honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>what are the other causes of high nox? high combustion chamber temps
>>>>>due to carbon buildup is one but im not sure of any others
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Technically, the causes are high temperatures and rapid cooling, which
>>>>causes the NOx to "freeze" instead of decaying as the gases cooled.
>>>>
>>>>Since the expansion time is pretty much determined by engine speed, that
>>>>leaves combustion temperature as the factor we can control. Carbon really
>>>>isn't an issue directly, but it can cause preignition which has the same
>>>>effect as advanced ignition timing. The two big culprits are ignition timing
>>>>and mixture. Advanced timing increases combustion temperatures, and a leaner
>>>>mixture at high throttle settings (when it should be rich anyway to
>>>>forestall detonation) does the same. EGR reduces the temperature by diluting
>>>>the mixture without affecting the air/fuel ratio.
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>good post. yes, check timing and mixture. mixture can be assisted by
>>>running a couple of tanks with injector cleaner through the vehicle.
>>>timing should be set with the maintenance jumper connected. and it
>>>should be dead-on, not just close. regarding egr, it's often addressed
>>>these days by increasing the overlap between exhaust and inlet valve
>>>timing, so make sure the valve clearances are correct.
>>>
>>>to the op, no, an oil catch can is illegal in california.
>>
>>
>>
>> why is a catch can illegal?
>
>because vapor still vents to atmosphere. you have to operate a closed
>crank case in ca.
>
>>
>> good advice guys, someone from another newsgroup claims that the car
>> DOES use an EGR and said to go to
>>
>> http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/publicweb_bg.asp
>>
>> then put in part # EGV551
>
>that's a honda egr valve ok. but if you don't have one, you don't have
>one! they're only on the automatics.
>
>>
>>
>> i can see a mount near the valve cover where one WOULD go, but i think
>> the only cars of this era that had one are the ex and vx ?
>>
>> may have to adjust the valves, it's pretty tough to get the timing
>> dead on considering the rpm's go up when the fan kicks on to cool the
>> engine, and finding 650rpm's EXACTLY on the tach is just a guess.
>
>two things:
>
>1. unless the spec is changed for the 92-95, the d15 idles at 750 +/- 25
>rpm. look up the procedure for adjusting idle correctly, then leave the
>engine management computer to do its job. /it/ controls idle speed -
>/you/ don't!

theres a screw on the throttle body to adjust the idle, i've never
messed with it so i should try again and get it as close to spec as
possible then try again, 750 rpms is canada, 670 is usa

>
>2. the timing set-up procedure requires the use of an electrical jumper
>which tells the ecu to keep ignition timing locked back. when you
>examine the timing under strobe with the jumper installed, the timing
>marks are very steady.* if the jumper is removed for normal operation,
>the marks jump about because the ecu is always electronically adjusting
>timing.
>


yeah i did the jumper, then started the car (was hot already)

>
>*. if the timing marks are /not/ steady with the jumper connected,
>re-tension the timing belt - it's not been set correctly.


they seem to be steady until the cooling fan kicks on then the rpm's
get higher and the mark moves toward the back of the car

vairox wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:52:09 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>vairox wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:26:43 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"vairox" <nothere@spammasters.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:kfkn42tvaipokjplcnm1arlpqt85j3rehc@4ax.c om...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:33:47 GMT, "Elle"
>>>>>><honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>what are the other causes of high nox? high combustion chamber temps
>>>>>>due to carbon buildup is one but im not sure of any others
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Technically, the causes are high temperatures and rapid cooling, which
>>>>>causes the NOx to "freeze" instead of decaying as the gases cooled.
>>>>>
>>>>>Since the expansion time is pretty much determined by engine speed, that
>>>>>leaves combustion temperature as the factor we can control. Carbon really
>>>>>isn't an issue directly, but it can cause preignition which has the same
>>>>>effect as advanced ignition timing. The two big culprits are ignition timing
>>>>>and mixture. Advanced timing increases combustion temperatures, and a leaner
>>>>>mixture at high throttle settings (when it should be rich anyway to
>>>>>forestall detonation) does the same. EGR reduces the temperature by diluting
>>>>>the mixture without affecting the air/fuel ratio.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>good post. yes, check timing and mixture. mixture can be assisted by
>>>>running a couple of tanks with injector cleaner through the vehicle.
>>>>timing should be set with the maintenance jumper connected. and it
>>>>should be dead-on, not just close. regarding egr, it's often addressed
>>>>these days by increasing the overlap between exhaust and inlet valve
>>>>timing, so make sure the valve clearances are correct.
>>>>
>>>>to the op, no, an oil catch can is illegal in california.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>why is a catch can illegal?
>>
>>because vapor still vents to atmosphere. you have to operate a closed
>>crank case in ca.
>>
>>
>>>good advice guys, someone from another newsgroup claims that the car
>>>DOES use an EGR and said to go to
>>>
>>>http://www.smpcorp.com/web_app/catalog/publicweb_bg.asp
>>>
>>>then put in part # EGV551
>>
>>that's a honda egr valve ok. but if you don't have one, you don't have
>>one! they're only on the automatics.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>i can see a mount near the valve cover where one WOULD go, but i think
>>>the only cars of this era that had one are the ex and vx ?
>>>
>>>may have to adjust the valves, it's pretty tough to get the timing
>>>dead on considering the rpm's go up when the fan kicks on to cool the
>>>engine, and finding 650rpm's EXACTLY on the tach is just a guess.
>>
>>two things:
>>
>>1. unless the spec is changed for the 92-95, the d15 idles at 750 +/- 25
>>rpm. look up the procedure for adjusting idle correctly, then leave the
>>engine management computer to do its job. /it/ controls idle speed -
>>/you/ don't!
>
>
> theres a screw on the throttle body to adjust the idle, i've never
> messed with it so i should try again and get it as close to spec as
> possible then try again, 750 rpms is canada, 670 is usa

but i am usa. and that screw is not to adjust the idle. try it. it'll
not make any difference once the iacv valve compensates. the screw is
there to allow correct idle setup, and that's it. after that, it's the
iacv all the way.

>
>
>>2. the timing set-up procedure requires the use of an electrical jumper
>>which tells the ecu to keep ignition timing locked back. when you
>>examine the timing under strobe with the jumper installed, the timing
>>marks are very steady.* if the jumper is removed for normal operation,
>>the marks jump about because the ecu is always electronically adjusting
>>timing.
>>
>
>
>
> yeah i did the jumper, then started the car (was hot already)
>
>
>>*. if the timing marks are /not/ steady with the jumper connected,
>>re-tension the timing belt - it's not been set correctly.
>
>
>
> they seem to be steady until the cooling fan kicks on then the rpm's
> get higher and the mark moves toward the back of the car

then something's wrong. the timing stays steady if the jumper is
connected properly.