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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09 Apr 2006, 12:22 pm
'Curly Q. Links'
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Default O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

A bad O2 sensor will not necessarily set off a CEL on a Honda, but it
can be sluggish and waste fuel / performance.

I checked the part numbers for my CR-V on this site:

http://www.ngksparkplugs.ca/

Since the first and second O2 sensor for a '00 CR-V use the same
universal number, You can buy the first sensor (which is WAY cheaper
than the second sensor) and chop the connectors off your old one. Well
under $100 CAN.

For hondas over 100,000 miles, an O2 sensor change might be a good idea.
Search back a few days to see this post about __'Revitalizing' Oxygen
Sensors ? ?__ if that interests you. google.com has hundreds of good
sites about O2 sensor troubleshooting . . . . .

'Curly'
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09 Apr 2006, 01:03 pm
Woody
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Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

In an OBDII system the O2 sensor will turn on the CEL long before it drops
fuel economy. Heater current, voltage, switching times and switching voltage
are all monitored to close tolerance as dictated by EPA standards. All of
these can also be seen and monitored on an OBDII tester. If you are
replacing these just because you think you should you are wasting your
money.


"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:443942D9.2F542F94@interbaun.com...
>A bad O2 sensor will not necessarily set off a CEL on a Honda, but it
> can be sluggish and waste fuel / performance.
>
> I checked the part numbers for my CR-V on this site:
>
> http://www.ngksparkplugs.ca/
>
> Since the first and second O2 sensor for a '00 CR-V use the same
> universal number, You can buy the first sensor (which is WAY cheaper
> than the second sensor) and chop the connectors off your old one. Well
> under $100 CAN.
>
> For hondas over 100,000 miles, an O2 sensor change might be a good idea.
> Search back a few days to see this post about __'Revitalizing' Oxygen
> Sensors ? ?__ if that interests you. google.com has hundreds of good
> sites about O2 sensor troubleshooting . . . . .
>
> 'Curly'



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09 Apr 2006, 04:58 pm
Michael Pardee
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Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

"Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
news:N%b_f.652$Lm5.514@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com. ..
> In an OBDII system the O2 sensor will turn on the CEL long before it drops
> fuel economy. Heater current, voltage, switching times and switching
> voltage are all monitored to close tolerance as dictated by EPA standards.
> All of these can also be seen and monitored on an OBDII tester. If you are
> replacing these just because you think you should you are wasting your
> money.
>
>

This sounds like another "religious war" in the making. However, my
understanding is that the front O2 sensor is given a lot of latitude, while
the second O2 sensor actually monitors catalyst operation. There are enough
anecdotal reports here by people I respect to suggest drivability does
indeed suffer before the MIL lights, although the economy aspect is less
certain. In the alt.autos.volvo forum a couple visitors have reported
bringing their sagging fuel economy back in line by replacing O2 sensors,
but some of those may be OBDI cars and none of them have been regular
contributors.

Anybody have a link to OBDII specs?

Mike


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10 Apr 2006, 12:32 am
'Curly Q. Links'
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Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

Woody wrote:
>
> In an OBDII system the O2 sensor will turn on the CEL long before it drops
> fuel economy. Heater current, voltage, switching times and switching voltage
> are all monitored to close tolerance as dictated by EPA standards. All of
> these can also be seen and monitored on an OBDII tester. If you are
> replacing these just because you think you should you are wasting your
> money.
>


---------------------------------

I meant what I said in the subject line . . . They have to be 'scoped'.
OBDII can't be trusted to catch a sensor that's just running SLOW. A
digital multimeter won't show that at all. If you haven't noticed by
now, I'm a penny pincher. If anything, I'd use the BOIL IT IN LIME-AWAY
cure before I'd BUY a new O2 sensor, but I'll be scoping it all before
and after.

I passed on a good link and a very attractive price for those who might
not have the time and just want to save a bunch of cash on a new NTK O2
sensor.

'Curly'
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10 Apr 2006, 11:03 am
TeGGeR®
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:uredne8HzZduH6TZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@sedona.net:

> "Woody" <TheDuck@pond.net> wrote in message
> news:N%b_f.652$Lm5.514@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com. ..
>> In an OBDII system the O2 sensor will turn on the CEL long before it
>> drops fuel economy. Heater current, voltage, switching times and
>> switching voltage are all monitored to close tolerance as dictated by
>> EPA standards. All of these can also be seen and monitored on an
>> OBDII tester. If you are replacing these just because you think you
>> should you are wasting your money.
>>
>>

> This sounds like another "religious war" in the making. However, my
> understanding is that the front O2 sensor is given a lot of latitude,
> while the second O2 sensor actually monitors catalyst operation.




The secondary sensor is also used by the ECM for fine-tuning fuel trim
within a few percentage points, just enough to help keep the MIL from
illuminating with a P0420.



>
> Anybody have a link to OBDII specs?
>



What kinda "specs"?


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10 Apr 2006, 07:21 pm
TeGGeR®
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Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
news:4439EE0B.5253362@interbaun.com:


>
> I meant what I said in the subject line . . . They have to be
> 'scoped'. OBDII can't be trusted to catch a sensor that's just running
> SLOW. A digital multimeter won't show that at all. If you haven't
> noticed by now, I'm a penny pincher. If anything, I'd use the BOIL IT
> IN LIME-AWAY cure before I'd BUY a new O2 sensor, but I'll be scoping
> it all before and after.




Just fishing here, but where's a good place to pick up a scope for not-too-
much money?

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10 Apr 2006, 07:36 pm
'Curly Q. Links'
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

"TeGGeR®" wrote:
>
> "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
> news:4439EE0B.5253362@interbaun.com:
>
> >
> > I meant what I said in the subject line . . . They have to be
> > 'scoped'. OBDII can't be trusted to catch a sensor that's just running
> > SLOW. A digital multimeter won't show that at all. If you haven't
> > noticed by now, I'm a penny pincher. If anything, I'd use the BOIL IT
> > IN LIME-AWAY cure before I'd BUY a new O2 sensor, but I'll be scoping
> > it all before and after.

>
> Just fishing here, but where's a good place to pick up a scope for not-too-
> much money?
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Garage sale last summer. :-) :-) :-) Dual-Trace Tektronix 10 Mhz for
$15 (it's 30 years old)

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk.

'Curly'
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10 Apr 2006, 07:39 pm
Jim Yanik
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Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns97A1CF22FDD4Dtegger@207.14.113.17:

> "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
> news:4439EE0B.5253362@interbaun.com:
>
>
>>
>> I meant what I said in the subject line . . . They have to be
>> 'scoped'. OBDII can't be trusted to catch a sensor that's just
>> running SLOW. A digital multimeter won't show that at all. If you
>> haven't noticed by now, I'm a penny pincher. If anything, I'd use the
>> BOIL IT IN LIME-AWAY cure before I'd BUY a new O2 sensor, but I'll be
>> scoping it all before and after.

>
>
>
> Just fishing here, but where's a good place to pick up a scope for
> not-too- much money?
>


What's "too much money"?
Ebay would be my 1st choice.
I'd look for an LCD scope for automotive applications.
Tektronix (#1 scope maker)used to make one,5Mhz bandwidth,handheld,THM-
something was the model,also sold under a automotive tool makers badge.
(sorry,I'm too feeble to recall the exact company) ;-)

I'll try to look into it further;if I find something,I'll post it here.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10 Apr 2006, 08:55 pm
TeGGeR®
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns97A1D2ACF6A7Cjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85:

> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns97A1CF22FDD4Dtegger@207.14.113.17:
>
>> "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
>> news:4439EE0B.5253362@interbaun.com:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I meant what I said in the subject line . . . They have to be
>>> 'scoped'. OBDII can't be trusted to catch a sensor that's just
>>> running SLOW. A digital multimeter won't show that at all. If you
>>> haven't noticed by now, I'm a penny pincher. If anything, I'd use the
>>> BOIL IT IN LIME-AWAY cure before I'd BUY a new O2 sensor, but I'll be
>>> scoping it all before and after.

>>
>>
>>
>> Just fishing here, but where's a good place to pick up a scope for
>> not-too- much money?
>>

>
> What's "too much money"?
> Ebay would be my 1st choice.




I see five of them on eBay right now, ranging from $50 to $300.

Don't know anything about scopes, so I think I'd have to do some larnin'
afore I buys one.



> I'd look for an LCD scope for automotive applications.
> Tektronix (#1 scope maker)used to make one,5Mhz bandwidth,handheld,THM-
> something was the model,also sold under a automotive tool makers badge.
> (sorry,I'm too feeble to recall the exact company) ;-)
>
> I'll try to look into it further;if I find something,I'll post it here.
>




Any advice would be nice.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10 Apr 2006, 09:14 pm
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ___ O2 sensors have to be 'scoped'

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns97A1DF09467A2tegger@207.14.113.17:

> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
> news:Xns97A1D2ACF6A7Cjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85:
>
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
>> news:Xns97A1CF22FDD4Dtegger@207.14.113.17:
>>
>>> "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
>>> news:4439EE0B.5253362@interbaun.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I meant what I said in the subject line . . . They have to be
>>>> 'scoped'. OBDII can't be trusted to catch a sensor that's just
>>>> running SLOW. A digital multimeter won't show that at all. If you
>>>> haven't noticed by now, I'm a penny pincher. If anything, I'd use the
>>>> BOIL IT IN LIME-AWAY cure before I'd BUY a new O2 sensor, but I'll be
>>>> scoping it all before and after.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just fishing here, but where's a good place to pick up a scope for
>>> not-too- much money?
>>>

>>
>> What's "too much money"?
>> Ebay would be my 1st choice.

>
>
>
> I see five of them on eBay right now, ranging from $50 to $300.
>
> Don't know anything about scopes, so I think I'd have to do some larnin'
> afore I buys one.
>
>
>
>> I'd look for an LCD scope for automotive applications.
>> Tektronix (#1 scope maker)used to make one,5Mhz bandwidth,handheld,THM-
>> something was the model,also sold under a automotive tool makers badge.
>> (sorry,I'm too feeble to recall the exact company) ;-)
>>
>> I'll try to look into it further;if I find something,I'll post it here.
>>

>
>
>
> Any advice would be nice.
>


For an AC-mains powered scope,a TEK 2213,2215,or "A" versions are good TEK
scopes.~$100-250
The TEK TDS210,TDS 220 are nice LCD digital bench scopes(AC line
powered).originally cost $1000,should go for $200-300 IMO.
They will be more in demand,though.(newer)
They should run off a 100W pseudo-sine wave inverter,too.

A TEK T-922,T-932,or T-935 would be a good low-cost(no more than$100)AC
line-powered scope.

you'll need a 10x probe with them,and have to back-pin the connectors.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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