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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04 Apr 2006, 12:54 am
BE
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Default Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

Hello,

Our car has 40K miles (pretty low) and lots of that has been highway. I am
hearing a metal scraping sound that goes away after the car is driven for 10
minutes. The front disc brake pads are about 8 months old - and the sound is
obviously coming from the back wheels.

Is it possible that these shoes could be worn out at 40K miles? Does Honda
have them make a warning scrape when it's almost time?

Thanks,
Be

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04 Apr 2006, 01:39 am
John Horner
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Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

BE wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Our car has 40K miles (pretty low) and lots of that has been highway. I am
> hearing a metal scraping sound that goes away after the car is driven for 10
> minutes. The front disc brake pads are about 8 months old - and the sound is
> obviously coming from the back wheels.
>
> Is it possible that these shoes could be worn out at 40K miles?


Very possible. The rear brake pads on my '03 Accord wore out before the
fronts and before 40k miles. I don't think there are any special low
pad warning devices built into the rear pads.

John
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04 Apr 2006, 03:21 am
TeGGeR®
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Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

BE <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:C0577467.48962%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net:

> Hello,
>
> Our car has 40K miles (pretty low) and lots of that has been highway.
> I am hearing a metal scraping sound that goes away after the car is
> driven for 10 minutes. The front disc brake pads are about 8 months
> old - and the sound is obviously coming from the back wheels.





"Scraping"? Take it in immediately before you wreck your rotors (if they're
not already gone). OEM rotors are $70 each.




>
> Is it possible that these shoes could be worn out at 40K miles? Does
> Honda have them make a warning scrape when it's almost time?
>




You sure you've got SHOES, and not PADS? Shoes are for drum brakes. My
neighbor's '02 has discs in the rear.

Rear discs require frequent servicing or they will wear prematurely. If
you've neglected them, one pad (or the sliders) will get seized, and one of
the pads will wear out tout suite.

Also, rear discs that incorporate a parking brake tend to wear out much
more quickly than those that do not incorporate a parking brake.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04 Apr 2006, 03:31 pm
BE
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Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

Yes, they are shoes. On the 2001 Odyssey LX (not the more expensive EX), the
factory equipment was drum brakes in rear, disc in front. The EX had disc
brakes on all four wheels. Quite possibly they stopped using drums the very
next year, but I'm not sure.

I am taking the car in this afternoon.

Be

On 4/4/06 3:21 AM, in article Xns979B2C549EA63tegger@207.14.113.17,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> BE <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:C0577467.48962%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Our car has 40K miles (pretty low) and lots of that has been highway.
>> I am hearing a metal scraping sound that goes away after the car is
>> driven for 10 minutes. The front disc brake pads are about 8 months
>> old - and the sound is obviously coming from the back wheels.

>
>
>
>
> "Scraping"? Take it in immediately before you wreck your rotors (if they're
> not already gone). OEM rotors are $70 each.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Is it possible that these shoes could be worn out at 40K miles? Does
>> Honda have them make a warning scrape when it's almost time?
>>

>
>
>
> You sure you've got SHOES, and not PADS? Shoes are for drum brakes. My
> neighbor's '02 has discs in the rear.
>
> Rear discs require frequent servicing or they will wear prematurely. If
> you've neglected them, one pad (or the sliders) will get seized, and one of
> the pads will wear out tout suite.
>
> Also, rear discs that incorporate a parking brake tend to wear out much
> more quickly than those that do not incorporate a parking brake.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04 Apr 2006, 09:03 pm
BE
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

BTW, the rear wheels don't have "rotors" - they are drums, at least they are
on an '01 LX.

I had the brakes checked - the Honda technician said they were barely worn
and should make it to 100K miles before needing replacement. He said the
noise is coming from two places:

1) the rear shoes need alignment (?) and this is an every-7500 mile routine
maintenance item (true???)

2) the front pads, which are NOT honda product... These were replaced last
summer and were AutoZone's best replacement pads. I installed them myself,
with anti-squeak compound and careful cleaning of the caliper components.

The service tech claims that these pads can damage Honda's disc rotors. My
engineer father thinks that if that's the case, it would only be because
Honda and other car makers started issuing rotors in softer metal in recent
years to deal with customer complaints about squeaky brakes. (How brilliant
is that??? Compromise the most important component to create a temporary
fix, then get lots more repair business replacing rotors that get skinned by
better quality brake pads)...

I don't hear this sound coming from the front, however. The acoustics, to my
ear, have it coming from the rear.

Well, at least I have time to deal with this - there is no urgent brake job
right now.

Comments anyone?

Be


On 4/4/06 3:21 AM, in article Xns979B2C549EA63tegger@207.14.113.17,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

> BE <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:C0577467.48962%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Our car has 40K miles (pretty low) and lots of that has been highway.
>> I am hearing a metal scraping sound that goes away after the car is
>> driven for 10 minutes. The front disc brake pads are about 8 months
>> old - and the sound is obviously coming from the back wheels.

>
>
>
>
> "Scraping"? Take it in immediately before you wreck your rotors (if they're
> not already gone). OEM rotors are $70 each.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Is it possible that these shoes could be worn out at 40K miles? Does
>> Honda have them make a warning scrape when it's almost time?
>>

>
>
>
> You sure you've got SHOES, and not PADS? Shoes are for drum brakes. My
> neighbor's '02 has discs in the rear.
>
> Rear discs require frequent servicing or they will wear prematurely. If
> you've neglected them, one pad (or the sliders) will get seized, and one of
> the pads will wear out tout suite.
>
> Also, rear discs that incorporate a parking brake tend to wear out much
> more quickly than those that do not incorporate a parking brake.


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04 Apr 2006, 09:41 pm
TeGGeR®
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

BE <n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:C0588F87.48CE2%n3wsr3ad3r_|@|_sbcglobal.net:

> BTW, the rear wheels don't have "rotors" - they are drums, at least
> they are on an '01 LX.
>
> I had the brakes checked - the Honda technician said they were barely
> worn and should make it to 100K miles before needing replacement. He
> said the noise is coming from two places:
>
> 1) the rear shoes need alignment (?) and this is an every-7500 mile
> routine maintenance item (true???)




Maybe. But the only regular adjustment I know of is the one that pushes the
shoes closer to the drums. AFAIK, this operation should automatically be
performed whenever you step on the brake pedal.

Anybody else know differently?



>
> 2) the front pads, which are NOT honda product... These were replaced
> last summer and were AutoZone's best replacement pads. I installed
> them myself, with anti-squeak compound and careful cleaning of the
> caliper components.
>
> The service tech claims that these pads can damage Honda's disc
> rotors. My engineer father thinks that if that's the case, it would
> only be because Honda and other car makers started issuing rotors in
> softer metal in recent years to deal with customer complaints about
> squeaky brakes. (How brilliant is that??? Compromise the most
> important component to create a temporary fix, then get lots more
> repair business replacing rotors that get skinned by better quality
> brake pads)...




Not true. The problem with aftermarket pads is that they tend to be too
hard, and possessed of the wrong friction characteristics for the rest of
the system. They also contain ingredients that can lead to excessive
rusting and grinding noises.

Honda (and all other maufacturers) have to strike a balance between cost,
longevity, noise, feel, stopping distance, driving style, corrosion, and
service intervals. The result is the brakes that left the factory.

Keep in mind as well that asbestos is no longer used for brake friction
materials. I've been told it was easier to deal with noise with asbestos
friction linings than with the newer non-asbestos ones.

If you want longer brake life, and wish to achieve this with harder pads,
you also need to install rotors with appropriate metallurgy. Aftermarket
rotors are NOT noted for high quality, and will probably perform even worse
than the OEM ones.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04 Apr 2006, 10:13 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

BE wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Our car has 40K miles (pretty low) and lots of that has been highway. I am
> hearing a metal scraping sound that goes away after the car is driven for 10
> minutes. The front disc brake pads are about 8 months old - and the sound is
> obviously coming from the back wheels.


are you sure these are honda oem brake shoes? did you buy this vehicle
new? i've had similar experiences a number of times with after-market
rear shoes, and each time they've been permanently fixed by using honda
oem shoes. i suggest you do the same. particularly as they're so cheap
and offer so much more beneficial anti-fade characteristics.

>
> Is it possible that these shoes could be worn out at 40K miles?


unlikely.

> Does Honda
> have them make a warning scrape when it's almost time?


front disk pads, yes, but not for rear shoes.

>
> Thanks,
> Be
>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05 Apr 2006, 01:51 am
John Horner
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

TeGGeR® wrote:

> If you want longer brake life, and wish to achieve this with harder pads,
> you also need to install rotors with appropriate metallurgy. Aftermarket
> rotors are NOT noted for high quality, and will probably perform even worse
> than the OEM ones.
>



Hmmm, the Brembos I put on my '03 Accord at least hold themselves flat,
unlike the factory rotors which wanted to make themselves into potato chips.

Not all aftermarket rotors are created equal. I would certainly stay
away from the bargain brands.

John
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05 Apr 2006, 02:00 am
John Horner
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

BE wrote:

> 1) the rear shoes need alignment (?) and this is an every-7500 mile routine
> maintenance item (true???)
>




BS detector going off very loudly here. I have seen rear brakes get
noisy due to a build up of brake dust inside the drums. One of the many
ways disc brakes are superior is that with discs the dust mostly
migrates onto the alloy wheels while with drums much gets caught inside
. There are no alignment adjustments on modern drum brakes. If the
self adjusters are working correctly the brakes shoes should stay in
proper adjustment all by themselves. That said, pulling the drums once
a year and cleaning the junk out often helps!

> 2) the front pads, which are NOT honda product... These were replaced last
> summer and were AutoZone's best replacement pads. I installed them myself,
> with anti-squeak compound and careful cleaning of the caliper components.
>
> The service tech claims that these pads can damage Honda's disc rotors.



More BS. Dealer techs like to blame aftermarket parts as a matter of
policy, even when there is no good reason for it. Certainly there are
some junk bargain priced parts out there, but I doubt that this is the
case on your car.

On my Accord the dealer techs insisted that the rattle I was hearing
from the trunk was because I had aftermarket speakers in the rear deck.
I finally figured out that the problem was the torsion bar springs for
the rear trunk lid rattling on each other. I fixed it by slitting some
vinyl tubing and slipping the tubing over each bar. Rattle has been
100% gone for over a year now with my fix.

The original rotors on my Accord warped at about 15,000 miles. I had
been religious about proper wheel torque, etc. Dealer said tough luck.
So, first I pulled the rotors and had a machine shop turn them.
Within a week they warped again. Next I bought a pair of aftermarket
Brembo rotors and installed them. Now over 10,000 miles later the
brakes still work like a dream without a hint of vibration.

The point is, you cannot believe everything a technician, parts guy,
service writer, etc. tells you. Each has their own biases and agenda
and often the stuff they say simply isn't correct.

John
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05 Apr 2006, 08:11 am
TeGGeR®
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Default Re: Rear brake shoes in 2001 Odyssey

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:hd6dne1vNJ5JqK7ZnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

> BE wrote:


>
>> Does Honda
>> have them make a warning scrape when it's almost time?

>
> front disk pads, yes, but not for rear shoes.



Clarification: Honda puts a SQUEAL tab on the inner _disc_ brake pads only.
The drums have no such feature.

No brake I know of utters a "scrape" noise unless they are already down to
the steel backing, or there is lots of rust.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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