Honda Car Forum

AZ Nomad wrote:
> On 14 Mar 2006 11:01:12 -0800, scube <sowell_s@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> This past weekend I replaced my two broken CV Joints.
>> I have a 1993 Accord w/ Manual Tranny and ABS.
>
>> The car was sitting for about a month while I was away on business. I
>> tackled the repair job (didn't drive the car until after joints were
>> replaced) and now have a problem with suspension. The car bounces up
>> and down about 4 or 5 times over small bumps, and over large bumps
>> there is a painful THUD! I don't know if my car is bottoming-out here
>> or not.
>
> If you know so little about the working of a car's suspension, you
> really shouldn't be working on it yourself.
>
> Hint: shocks. Nothing else does vertical dampening. How the **** you came
> to the conclusion that bushings have anything to do with vertical
> dampening is a mystery to me.
>
Well, bad bushings can certainly cause the "thud"

MasterBlaster wrote:
> "scube" wrote
>
>
>>This past weekend I replaced my two broken CV Joints.
>> I have a 1993 Accord w/ Manual Tranny and ABS.
>>
>>The car was sitting for about a month while I was away on business. I
>>tackled the repair job (didn't drive the car until after joints were
>>replaced) and now have a problem with suspension. The car bounces up
>>and down about 4 or 5 times over small bumps, and over large bumps
>>there is a painful THUD! I don't know if my car is bottoming-out here
>>or not.
>
>
> Springs hold the car up, and allow it to "bounce" over bumps.
> Struts (just big shock absorbers), control and dampen the bounces.
> Worn out struts/shocks = bouncebouncebouncebouncebouncebounce.
>
> Probably just a coincidence that they went bad at the same time you were
> working on the joints. Maybe they were marginal to start with, and being fully
> extended while off the ground finally killed them?
>
Having old struts fail after the wheel assembly was left hanging free
does not sound implausible to me. Possibly the piston traveled to a
portion of the cylinder that was dirty, rough & corroded that damaged
the old rubber seals. I suspect a similar event happened to my 1993
Accords master cylinder last year. I was having work done on it & asked
that the brake fluid be changed per the owner's manual. It had been
years since I had it done. The next day I get into the car & the brake
pedal goes to the floor. I limped back to the mechanic who said the
master cylinder went bad. He hypothesized that the new moisture-free
fluid had leeched the moisture out of the swelled seals effectively
drying them out & shrinking them. He replaced the master cylinder for
the price of the part only. I suspect that his helper let the pedal fall
to the floor when bleeding the brakes causing the piston seals to be
damaged in the unused portion of the cylinder.
Disclaimer: I am not a mechanic.

Rich

On 15 Mar 2006 09:32:43 -0800, "scube" <sowell_s@yahoo.com> wrote:

>touche'..
> though my reasoning is that if the LCA didn't join correctly to the
>knuckle, the fork attached to it maybe lower than normal which could
>mean an extended shock (now this may be complete nonsense, I am no
>mechanic...). I know quite well what suspensions do, but from a
>mechanical point of view there are quite a few variations. I am far
>from an expert (obviously), but as long as you can get to a part, why
>fear replacing it? Plus, the terms shock and strut seem to be so
>interchangeable it is causing confusion in my mind. Thanks for the
>reply...

My experience is that it pays to spend $20 on a repair manual. A
mechanic charges up to $100 an hour....do the math.

I looked in my Hilton's and '93 Accords have struts, that means that
the shock absorbers are an integral part of the sustention.
The half shafts and CV joints are in DRIVE TRAIN section 7 and the
SUSPENSION AND STEERING is in Section 8. There is a Cookbook
directions on how to remove and repair the CV joints on page 7-7.
I see nothing that should have effected the Struts.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:29:35 -0800, Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote:


>On 15 Mar 2006 09:32:43 -0800, "scube" <sowell_s@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>touche'..
>> though my reasoning is that if the LCA didn't join correctly to the
>>knuckle, the fork attached to it maybe lower than normal which could
>>mean an extended shock (now this may be complete nonsense, I am no
>>mechanic...). I know quite well what suspensions do, but from a
>>mechanical point of view there are quite a few variations. I am far
>>from an expert (obviously), but as long as you can get to a part, why
>>fear replacing it? Plus, the terms shock and strut seem to be so
>>interchangeable it is causing confusion in my mind. Thanks for the
>>reply...

>My experience is that it pays to spend $20 on a repair manual. A
>mechanic charges up to $100 an hour....do the math.

More like $100 for the shop manual. That $20 chilton's is generally a
complete waste of money.

How much is your own time worth? Have you ever replaced bushings? It
takes about 4 hours for an experienced home mechanic. Add $120 for the bushing
kit and if your time is worth ten bucks an hour, you just pissed away $160
for no real benefit.

Yeah,
a good shop manual is a bit pricey. This would be a weekend
venture, so my time in a sense is "free". I've got 18 hours or so to
spend on this, and worse case my car is still not driveable. I have
not replaced bushings before (not these bushings), though as I said, if
I can get to it why fear replacing it? It's just a car...a machine
for transportation from point A to point B, and it drives on the
ground=It doesn't fly in the air! If anything, I figure I should be
able to tow it to a shop and it would be less in labor costs since they
won't have to remove it ;-) (okay, no comments are necessary on this
statement...)

Thanks for the suggestion Eric. I took your info and raised up on
the LCA and then tightened the castle nut for the ball joint. When I
lowered the control arm(s) the shocks made an interesting hiss. This
helped out generally and I have determined that the front driver side
is bad. The shock(s) has been making noise for a while though.
Usually when it was cold out they would make a slight creaking noise
when going over slight bumps.

I will look into a manual and further inspection of the strut and
bushings this weekend. I can borrow a spring compressor if I get that
far, we'll see. I'll keep this thread posted on my trials and
tribulations, as well as look for more advice :-)

Thanks all for the suggestions, comments and understanding that not
everyone can be a mechanics apprentice. Somewhere, sometime, someone
has to learn it w/out a master by their side.

scube wrote:
> Yeah,
> a good shop manual is a bit pricey. This would be a weekend
> venture, so my time in a sense is "free". I've got 18 hours or so to
> spend on this, and worse case my car is still not driveable. I have
> not replaced bushings before (not these bushings), though as I said, if
> I can get to it why fear replacing it? It's just a car...a machine
> for transportation from point A to point B, and it drives on the
> ground=It doesn't fly in the air! If anything, I figure I should be
> able to tow it to a shop and it would be less in labor costs since they
> won't have to remove it ;-) (okay, no comments are necessary on this
> statement...)
>
> Thanks for the suggestion Eric. I took your info and raised up on
> the LCA and then tightened the castle nut for the ball joint. When I
> lowered the control arm(s) the shocks made an interesting hiss. This
> helped out generally and I have determined that the front driver side
> is bad. The shock(s) has been making noise for a while though.
> Usually when it was cold out they would make a slight creaking noise
> when going over slight bumps.
>
> I will look into a manual and further inspection of the strut and
> bushings this weekend. I can borrow a spring compressor if I get that
> far, we'll see. I'll keep this thread posted on my trials and
> tribulations, as well as look for more advice :-)
>
> Thanks all for the suggestions, comments and understanding that not
> everyone can be a mechanics apprentice. Somewhere, sometime, someone
> has to learn it w/out a master by their side.
>
My 93 Accord has been making that creaking noise in the cold for years.
I always wondered what it was. However, I was able to do something that
considerably improved it. I moved to Arizona so now I might hear it once
or twice a year instead of every morning for 4 or 5 months when I was in NJ.

well all,

it took me just about 5 hours to complete a driver-side front strut.
In about an hour I had the strut off and purchased a new one/rented a
spring compressor. In another hour I removed the old strut assembly
from the coil spring and ate dinner. Next 2+ hours I wrestled with
getting the shock/spring back together and putting it back on the car.
I could have dramatically reduced the time it took if I had a vise
Compressing that spring took forever having to hold it for support and
screw the bolts down on the compressor. I just moved to another state
and all my tools/crap is still in storage, so I needed to buy some
tools as well.

I found some great links for manuals. Here's where I went,
http://honda.icelord.net/

Total cost came to:
Strut: $52, metric hex keys: $8, set of open-end wrenches: $17,
spring compressor: free upon return, taxes and about 4 hours of my
time.

Rides great now! Thank you all that gave me good advice. Poo-poo on
you nay sayers... It was easier than the CV Joints by far, IMO.

"scube" <sowell_s@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142569504.229173.38270@v46g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
> Rides great now! Thank you all that gave me good advice. Poo-poo on
> you nay sayers... It was easier than the CV Joints by far, IMO.
>
I really didn't want to get into the minor fray while you still had the
challenge ahead of you, but I feel the only way we make progress is to reach
a little farther each time. Before you had not changed a strut; now you
have. For everybody there is a first time for everything. There are some
things that are outside our abilities (I stay out of auto trannies and
differentials and shy away from exhaust systems), but posting in fora like
these is enough to find out if there are any "heavens, no!" warnings. Yes -
poo-poo on the nay sayers.

Mike

AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:29:35 -0800, Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On 15 Mar 2006 09:32:43 -0800, "scube" <sowell_s@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> touche'..
>>> though my reasoning is that if the LCA didn't join correctly to the
>>> knuckle, the fork attached to it maybe lower than normal which could
>>> mean an extended shock (now this may be complete nonsense, I am no
>>> mechanic...). I know quite well what suspensions do, but from a
>>> mechanical point of view there are quite a few variations. I am far
>> >from an expert (obviously), but as long as you can get to a part, why
>>> fear replacing it? Plus, the terms shock and strut seem to be so
>>> interchangeable it is causing confusion in my mind. Thanks for the
>>> reply...
>
>> My experience is that it pays to spend $20 on a repair manual. A
>> mechanic charges up to $100 an hour....do the math.
>
> More like $100 for the shop manual. That $20 chilton's is generally a
> complete waste of money.
>
> How much is your own time worth? Have you ever replaced bushings? It
> takes about 4 hours for an experienced home mechanic. Add $120 for the bushing
> kit and if your time is worth ten bucks an hour, you just pissed away $160
> for no real benefit.

4 hours for an experienced mechanic to replace bushings?

Damn... it took me about 4 hours to replace mine, and that's including
the trip to my buddy's house to use his press.

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:11:08 GMT, Jon C <news@jonnythan.com> wrote:


>AZ Nomad wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:29:35 -0800, Charlie S <chasa@rcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 15 Mar 2006 09:32:43 -0800, "scube" <sowell_s@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> touche'..
>>>> though my reasoning is that if the LCA didn't join correctly to the
>>>> knuckle, the fork attached to it maybe lower than normal which could
>>>> mean an extended shock (now this may be complete nonsense, I am no
>>>> mechanic...). I know quite well what suspensions do, but from a
>>>> mechanical point of view there are quite a few variations. I am far
>>> >from an expert (obviously), but as long as you can get to a part, why
>>>> fear replacing it? Plus, the terms shock and strut seem to be so
>>>> interchangeable it is causing confusion in my mind. Thanks for the
>>>> reply...
>>
>>> My experience is that it pays to spend $20 on a repair manual. A
>>> mechanic charges up to $100 an hour....do the math.
>>
>> More like $100 for the shop manual. That $20 chilton's is generally a
>> complete waste of money.
>>
>> How much is your own time worth? Have you ever replaced bushings? It
>> takes about 4 hours for an experienced home mechanic. Add $120 for the bushing
>> kit and if your time is worth ten bucks an hour, you just pissed away $160
>> for no real benefit.

>4 hours for an experienced mechanic to replace bushings?
experienced HOME mechanic.



>Damn... it took me about 4 hours to replace mine, and that's including
>the trip to my buddy's house to use his press.