Honda Car Forum

In article <2kftf.349$%W1.220@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.ne t>, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:

> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
> > Elle wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > As for the oil in the spark plug tubes, your Accord has
> two
> > > seals per spark plug tube that could be leaking. Given
> your
> > > car's age, I would suspect the four O-rings that are
> lower
> > > in the tubes have hardened and no longer seal properly.
> >
> > elle, you keep saying that, but i seriously doubt it to be
> true.
>
> Jim, it cured the problem on my 91 Civic, whereas new valve
> cover spark plug tube gaskets did not. By my estimate, the
> oil leakage did get steadily worse over a roughly two-year,
> 20k mile period. Here's my data:
>
> Feb 04, 151k miles: Replaced spark plugs as part of
> scheduled maintenance. My notes say two of the plugs had wet
> oil on them, which did concern me at the time. (Not sure if
> I observed oil in the tube or not. I didn't know to pay
> close attention. I was a bit boggled by the oil on the
> plugs. Never saw that before, and only once has someone else
> done the plugs on my car.)
>
> Feb O4: Replaced upper tube gaskets (probably after reading
> here). I can't remember for sure if I used OEM gaskets or
> not, but I don't think I did.
>
> Subsequently, from Mar 2004-Aug 2005: Had the valve cover
> off twice.
>
> Sep O5, 170k miles: Inspected spark plug tubes. Two had oil
> in them--more than I'd ever noticed before. Wiped out.
>
> Oct 05: Saw posts by Eric and Tegger troubleshooting another
> guy's oil-in-spark-plug-tubes problem. Probably checked
> tubes again in next week or so. Oily. Mopped out.
> Groups.googled on subject
>
> Oct 05: Replaced lower O-rings.
>
> Nov 05: Various little stuff, like cleaning distributor
> area, checking ignition timing, replacing valve cover gasket
> (but not upper seals). Tubes appear oil free. With long
> needle nose pliers, I stick a Q-tip down there to check.
>
> The old O-rings I took out this past Fall were in fact quite
> hard compared to the new ones. They "break" as opposed to
> tear, brittle-like instead of rubber like. I doubt they were
> sealing.
>
> Others have reported on these lower seals before here.
>
> > the
> > seals that typically leak are the upper ones.
> > they are the ones that
> > get disturbed every time the rocker cover comes off
>
> Here is the guideline that I think should be used upon
> seeing oil in the plug tubes:
>
> First, the Honda owner should replace the upper gaskets.
> These are in the valve cover and so are a pretty easy DIY
> job. Monitor the tubes for oil accumulation once a week or
> so, depending on how much was originally seen in the tubes,
> for a couple of months, especially if the car has over 120k
> miles on it. Mop out every time. If oil continues to
> accumulate, check that your year and model of Honda has the
> lower O-rings (some Hondas do not), and replace these.

Question:
My 99 Accord (4 cyld.) now has 63790 miles on it. I will be getting
the 75,000 mile service next year. Should I tell the service
advisor at the Honda dealership to have the mechanic change out
the upper gaskets? Should the timing belt be changed during the
75,000 mile service?
Jason

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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote
On spark plug tube gaskets (upper)
> Question:
> My 99 Accord (4 cyld.) now has 63790 miles on it. I will
be getting
> the 75,000 mile service next year. Should I tell the
service
> advisor at the Honda dealership to have the mechanic
change out
> the upper gaskets? Should the timing belt be changed
during the
> 75,000 mile service?

Do you have an owner's manual? It has a matrix of scheduled
maintenance and will say when the timing belt (TB) is due.
Ya oughtta track what's done, like on a spreadsheet.

If you don't have an owner's manual, then the American Honda
site, under the free owner link services, says to replace
the TB on the 99 Accord (4 cyl) every 7 years or 105k miles
(whichever comes first) for "normal" driving. (It's more
frequent if you do "severe" driving.) The Canadian Honda
site says the same, except if you regularly drive in -20 F
weather. Then the TB should be changed at about 62k miles.

So your seventh year commences sometime in 2006, and
therefore the TB is due. You're right that the valve cover
comes off for the TB job, and so it's an easy matter to pop
out those upper valve cover spark plug tube gaskets (which
your 99 Accord definitely has) and put in new ones. It's
like five minutes of labor. Those gaskets are about $3 each
at online OEM honda parts stores. At seven years, and at
such low cost, I'd have the shop do them. They may be fine,
but they may also fail within a few years. Consider also
having them replace the valve cover gasket. (They may do
this with TB jobs anyway.)

Mind you, since I'm a DIY-er, short of seeing oil in the
tubes, I personally would put it off, 'cause I'd probably
have the valve cover off for something else in 2007, and I'd
be monitoring the spark plug tubes every few months, anyway,
as I tinker with my car.

I see your 99 Accord does /not/ have the four lower spark
plug tube O-ring seals. :-)

In article <WTgtf.2351$M%4.1750@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink. net>, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:

> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > > Given
> > > > > your
> > > > > car's age, I would suspect the four O-rings that are
> > > lower
> > > > > in the tubes have hardened and no longer seal
> properly.
> > > >
> > > > I had this problem with my old 93 Accord. It took the
> > > mechanic
> > > > over 4 hours to replace them.
> snip for brevity
> > There were two mechanics working together on the project
> since
> > the manager knew that I was setting in the waiting
> room.They wanted
> > to finish the job as quickly as possible. The problem was
> so bad
> > that the car almost stopped running. The engine light came
> on so
> > I pulled off the freeway at the next exit. I did not know
> what was
> > wrong with the car until the mechanic discovered the
> source of the
> > problem. I now keep a code checker in the tool box in the
> trunk.
> > Jason
>
> Wow--a catastrophic lower spark plug tube O-ring failure. Do
> you remember about how many miles were on the Accord?
>
> I'll mention this catastrophic failure to my site on these
> O-rings, if you don't mind.

About 85,000 miles--it was a 1993 Honda Accord EX. It's now in the junkyard
since Sarah wrecked it. She ran off the road in the middle of the night.
It was my guess that she went to sleep but she denys it. She was not hurt.
Thank God there were no trees next to the road.
Jason

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In article <Fmhtf.406$%W1.121@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.ne t>, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:

> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote
> On spark plug tube gaskets (upper)
> > Question:
> > My 99 Accord (4 cyld.) now has 63790 miles on it. I will
> be getting
> > the 75,000 mile service next year. Should I tell the
> service
> > advisor at the Honda dealership to have the mechanic
> change out
> > the upper gaskets? Should the timing belt be changed
> during the
> > 75,000 mile service?
>
> Do you have an owner's manual? It has a matrix of scheduled
> maintenance and will say when the timing belt (TB) is due.
> Ya oughtta track what's done, like on a spreadsheet.
>
> If you don't have an owner's manual, then the American Honda
> site, under the free owner link services, says to replace
> the TB on the 99 Accord (4 cyl) every 7 years or 105k miles
> (whichever comes first) for "normal" driving. (It's more
> frequent if you do "severe" driving.) The Canadian Honda
> site says the same, except if you regularly drive in -20 F
> weather. Then the TB should be changed at about 62k miles.
>
> So your seventh year commences sometime in 2006, and
> therefore the TB is due. You're right that the valve cover
> comes off for the TB job, and so it's an easy matter to pop
> out those upper valve cover spark plug tube gaskets (which
> your 99 Accord definitely has) and put in new ones. It's
> like five minutes of labor. Those gaskets are about $3 each
> at online OEM honda parts stores. At seven years, and at
> such low cost, I'd have the shop do them. They may be fine,
> but they may also fail within a few years. Consider also
> having them replace the valve cover gasket. (They may do
> this with TB jobs anyway.)
>
> Mind you, since I'm a DIY-er, short of seeing oil in the
> tubes, I personally would put it off, 'cause I'd probably
> have the valve cover off for something else in 2007, and I'd
> be monitoring the spark plug tubes every few months, anyway,
> as I tinker with my car.
>
> I see your 99 Accord does /not/ have the four lower spark
> plug tube O-ring seals. :-)

I'll make a note and keep it in the car file. I'll have the
TB, and upper valve cover spark plug tube gaskets and
valve cover gasket changed. I'm glad that my car does NOT have the
four lower spark plug O-ring seals.
Thanks for the advice
Jason

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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote
"Elle"
snip
> > Wow--a catastrophic lower spark plug tube O-ring
failure. Do
> > you remember about how many miles were on the Accord?
> >
> > I'll mention this catastrophic failure to my site on
these
> > O-rings, if you don't mind.
>
> About 85,000 miles--it was a 1993 Honda Accord EX.

Oops, sorry: Also, about what year did the oil O-rings fail?

> It's now in the junkyard
> since Sarah wrecked it. She ran off the road in the middle
of the night.
> It was my guess that she went to sleep but she denys it.
She was not hurt.
> Thank God there were no trees next to the road.

A good reminder as we head into the American New Year's
holiday. As a kid, my family had a neighbor that lost a son
because he fell asleep at the wheel while driving home from
college. He drove off a bridge, and so never woke again.
Horrible.

In article <bcktf.450$%W1.228@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.ne t>, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:

> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote
> "Elle"
> snip
> > > Wow--a catastrophic lower spark plug tube O-ring
> failure. Do
> > > you remember about how many miles were on the Accord?
> > >
> > > I'll mention this catastrophic failure to my site on
> these
> > > O-rings, if you don't mind.
> >
> > About 85,000 miles--it was a 1993 Honda Accord EX.
>
> Oops, sorry: Also, about what year did the oil O-rings fail?
>
> > It's now in the junkyard
> > since Sarah wrecked it. She ran off the road in the middle
> of the night.
> > It was my guess that she went to sleep but she denys it.
> She was not hurt.
> > Thank God there were no trees next to the road.
>
> A good reminder as we head into the American New Year's
> holiday. As a kid, my family had a neighbor that lost a son
> because he fell asleep at the wheel while driving home from
> college. He drove off a bridge, and so never woke again.
> Horrible.

1997--That's a sad story. Lots of tractor trailer truck drivers
have wrecked as a result of going to sleep. I hope that the
auto. engineers develop a solution to the problem. I know that
they are working on it. A camera is pointed at the head. If the
head falls forward, a buzzer goes off.
Jason

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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote
E
> > A good reminder as we head into the American New Year's
> > holiday. As a kid, my family had a neighbor that lost a
son
> > because he fell asleep at the wheel while driving home
from
> > college. He drove off a bridge, and so never woke again.
> > Horrible.
>
> 1997--That's a sad story. Lots of tractor trailer truck
drivers
> have wrecked as a result of going to sleep. I hope that
the
> auto. engineers develop a solution to the problem. I know
that
> they are working on it. A camera is pointed at the head.
If the
> head falls forward, a buzzer goes off.

Interesting. And it does seem eminently correctable, like
you say.

I'll mention the years and miles to catastrophic failure of
your spark plug tube O-rings on my site.

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-3012051832180001@pm4-broad-32.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> 1997--That's a sad story. Lots of tractor trailer truck drivers
> have wrecked as a result of going to sleep. I hope that the
> auto. engineers develop a solution to the problem. I know that
> they are working on it. A camera is pointed at the head. If the
> head falls forward, a buzzer goes off.
> Jason
>
I recall in the 60s or 70s there was some buzz about a system that would
monitor the correction rate on the steering wheel, watching for the little
back-and-forth movement that keeps us nicely centered in our lane. Wonder
what became of that?

Mike

> Date: Fri, Dec 30 2005 9:09 pm
> From: "Elle"
>
> ... replace the TB [...] more frequent if you do
> "severe" driving.



What constitutes "severe" driving?

In article <1136063643.917140.128510@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>, "karl"
<ottokarl@cognisurf.com> wrote:

> > Date: Fri, Dec 30 2005 9:09 pm
> > From: "Elle"
> >
> > ... replace the TB [...] more frequent if you do
> > "severe" driving.
>
>
>
> What constitutes "severe" driving?


In some areas of Canada, the weather is near or below freezing
several months per year--that's "severe driving".
If you drive your car over 80 miles per hour on a regular basis
esp. in really hot weather--that could be considered severe driving.
Obviously, if you race your car--that's severe driving.

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