Honda Car Forum

Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?

The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
shady. having said that, I called the dealer back the next day, and it
was gone for sticker price

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <1136814837.880054.9630@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>,
> "Professor" <briangriffey@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > I think you'll just have to be patient and wait for about six months or
> > so. By that time... there should be plenty around... and those shiester
> > dealers won't be able to command that markup any more.
>
> Why are they shyster dealers if they're just charging what the market
> will bear?
>
> Just because YOU can't or won't afford it, doesn't make the seller a
> shyster.

On 10 Jan 2006 08:22:02 -0800, volwrath@gmail.com wrote:

>Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
>shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?
>
>The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
>car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
>shady. having said that, I called the dealer back the next day, and it
>was gone for sticker price


Agreed..........

just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
will bear it or someone is willing to pay.

I generally have a "low" opinion of car dealers / car salespeople
anyway.

We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
way justifies the actions of the seller.

Car sales people in general are "slime-balls" I've never trusted any
of them!

Sure the dealers set their own prices..... I for one would never do
business with a dealer who tried to charge such a mark-up.

I can't think of anything offhand that so much BS is involved in when
you go to buy it, as it is with buying a vehicle.

The question is..... not if you were screwed at the dealer but how bad
was it!
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
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In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
volwrath@gmail.com wrote:

> Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
> shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?

They're not shysters, period....some salesmen are, but many are not.

The fact that it's up to YOU to determine whether he's a shyster or not
is what bugs you, I think. You want not to have to work at it. You
want it handed to you in a "fair" manner ("fair" being what YOU think is
fair).

In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
volwrath@gmail.com wrote:

> The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
> car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
> shady.

If he can get $6K over invoice for every car for the next month or two,
then yes--giving it to you for $5K over invoice is a deal.

And what's with your focus in invoice price? You have this number in
your head as a holy grail, as if it means something. Guess what? It
doesn't. It's a fake number that has nothing to do with what the dealer
paid for the car. Anymore, it's a number designed to satisfy people
like you in some fashion, people who think they have to know what the
dealer paid for the car and go from there--people who think that somehow
that's the only "fair" way to do things.

So now, the actual dealer price is hidden so well you'll never know it
or see it. The "invoice" price is what the magician shows you in one
hand while he's busy hiding things with the other hand.

Meanwhile, you walk into a department store and happily buy a shirt
without knowing what the store paid for it. So who's ripping you off
now?

In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.

Pray tell, why not?

Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
over invoice, what's your beef?

Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
money, that's all that matters.

What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
you can't pay the going rate.

In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
> way justifies the actions of the seller.

In the case of simple pricing, it sure does.

Caveat emptor. If the salesman is doing something shady, then you walk
away--no harm, no foul.

You all seem to think that he shouldn't be doing everything he can to
maximize his income. If he can convince you that the car is worth more
money--and that's his job--then he's doing his job. It's up to you, the
consumer, to be aware of his job and not to think of him as your buddy
or pal. His job is to extract as much money from you as he can.

Your job is to spend as little money as you can.

You all just don't like it that you're in a position where you have to
work, to negotiate. You want it all cut and dried, like buying a shirt
at the store. Hey, it has a price tag on it, take it or leave it.
Wal-Mart doesn't negotiate. You're happy with that.

So why not go buy a Saturn?

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:02:52 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
>> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
>> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.
>
>Pray tell, why not?
>
>Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
>But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
>over invoice, what's your beef?
>
>Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
>think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
>money, that's all that matters.
>
>What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
>you can't pay the going rate.


buddy

You don't know crap!
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:05:50 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
>> way justifies the actions of the seller.
>
>In the case of simple pricing, it sure does.
>
>Caveat emptor. If the salesman is doing something shady, then you walk
>away--no harm, no foul.
>
>You all seem to think that he shouldn't be doing everything he can to
>maximize his income. If he can convince you that the car is worth more
>money--and that's his job--then he's doing his job. It's up to you, the
>consumer, to be aware of his job and not to think of him as your buddy
>or pal. His job is to extract as much money from you as he can.
>
>Your job is to spend as little money as you can.
>
>You all just don't like it that you're in a position where you have to
>work, to negotiate. You want it all cut and dried, like buying a shirt
>at the store. Hey, it has a price tag on it, take it or leave it.
>Wal-Mart doesn't negotiate. You're happy with that.
>
>So why not go buy a Saturn?


"we-All" don't agree with your analysis.

a person who tries to take advantage of the consumer buy purely just
tacking one extreme profit is a decent good business person?

You ever hear of ethics? You ever hear of reasonable profit?

The issue is that the average consumer only knows the value of the car
by the sticker price..... the dealer takes this and then tacks on $5K
or whatever.
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
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In article <jcfbs1l76m5ts8139enea1sogk295sg17k@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> >> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
> >> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
> >> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.
> >
> >Pray tell, why not?
> >
> >Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
> >But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
> >over invoice, what's your beef?
> >
> >Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
> >think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
> >money, that's all that matters.
> >
> >What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
> >you can't pay the going rate.
>
>
> buddy
>
> You don't know crap!

I know that you're one of those who (a) wants one now, but (b) doesn't
want to pay the price (or can't). Therefore, dealers who charge AND GET
more than what you WANT (or CAN) pay are, by your definition, scum.

Maybe if you got a better job. Or maybe if you got a job, period.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:58:34 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> volwrath@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
>> shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?
>
>They're not shysters, period....some salesmen are, but many are not.
>
>The fact that it's up to YOU to determine whether he's a shyster or not
>is what bugs you, I think. You want not to have to work at it. You
>want it handed to you in a "fair" manner ("fair" being what YOU think is
>fair).


a "slime-ball" is a slime-ball no matter what spin you put on the
situation.


How about the repair person who came out to your house and marked up
the repair bill by $400... just because he could. Maybe he too, is a
good business person, using your logic.
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
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