Honda Car Forum

Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything? Is there
anything that gets into the oil that needs to be removed?
If oil filters keep getting smaller, they're gonna be the size of a
pack of gum. bob

N.E.Ohio Bob wrote:
> Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything? Is
> there anything that gets into the oil that needs to be removed?
> If oil filters keep getting smaller, they're gonna be the size of a
> pack of gum. bob

Well, no replies..... Next question then. What test can be done on
the filter from my car (92 Accord LX, 225,000 mi) to see what is trapped
in there after 5000 miles? bob

"N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qgdof.48333$lh.5341@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> N.E.Ohio Bob wrote:
> > Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything? Is
> > there anything that gets into the oil that needs to be removed?
> > If oil filters keep getting smaller, they're gonna be the size of a
> > pack of gum. bob
>
> Well, no replies..... Next question then. What test can be done on
> the filter from my car (92 Accord LX, 225,000 mi) to see what is trapped
> in there after 5000 miles? bob

Get a hacksaw and cut the filter in half - it's not too hard, they are made
of pretty thin metal. Look closely at the internals and you should be able
to pick out some debris, unless your engine is really clean, not too new,
not too old, etc. A new engine will still be 'breaking in' and could have
more wear particles in the oil, whereas an old engine will be starting to
wear out and could have more wear particles in the oil. If you do a lot of
city driving, you will likely have dirty oil. If you drive 40k miles /yr
like I do, your oil will likely be quite clean if/when you change if by the
recommended schedule. Just stuff to keep in mind...

"N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qgdof.48333$lh.5341@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> N.E.Ohio Bob wrote:
>> Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything? Is
>> there anything that gets into the oil that needs to be removed?
>> If oil filters keep getting smaller, they're gonna be the size of a
>> pack of gum. bob
>
> Well, no replies..... Next question then. What test can be done on the
> filter from my car (92 Accord LX, 225,000 mi) to see what is trapped in
> there after 5000 miles? bob


Just what are you hoping to see? The average OEM oil filter will remove
particles as small as 10 microns (maybe even a little smaller). A micron is
equal to 0.0000393700787", so 10 microns is equal to about 0.000394", or 4
/ 10,000ths of an inch. I guess if you have a microscope you could prove
that the smallest particles are being removed. If you can see any particles
with a visual inspection, you probably have problems.

Doug

"N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qgdof.48333$lh.5341@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> N.E.Ohio Bob wrote:
>> Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything? Is
>> there anything that gets into the oil that needs to be removed?
>> If oil filters keep getting smaller, they're gonna be the size of a
>> pack of gum. bob
>
> Well, no replies..... Next question then. What test can be done on the
> filter from my car (92 Accord LX, 225,000 mi) to see what is trapped in
> there after 5000 miles? bob

I think the real question is, "what can get into my oil that needs to be
filtered out?" Cars don't use breather caps any more so we shouldn't have to
worry about unfiltered air with grit being pulled into the engine any more,
but oil changes and fills are not always done in clean room conditions. The
towel we wipe the dipstick with at the gas station isn't guaranteed free of
grit or dust. Okay, so maybe contamination is rare, but when it occurs we
sure don't want to pump abrasives into the close bearing surfaces of modern
engines. The amount of grit doesn't even have to be visible to be a big
issue.

On the original question, the filter size probably is determined by oil flow
and filter geometry, and those are changing. The filter in our Toyota has
(let's see if I can describe this) a half dozen lobes of pleated paper, so
the pleats are at a right angle to standard filter designs. If you think of
replacing the flat paper of each pleat in a normal filter with pleated
paper, you get the picture.

Mike

N.E.Ohio Bob wrote:
> Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything? Is
> there anything that gets into the oil that needs to be removed?
> If oil filters keep getting smaller, they're gonna be the size of a
> pack of gum. bob

Wear particles from the engine (anything that wears has to go
somewhere), slight amounts of blow-by by-products (the rings do not make
a 100% perfect seal) and by-products from the decomposition of the oil
itself.

A well maintained engine in it's mid-life stage probably leaves very
little in the oil filter, hence the small filter and every other oil
change replacement recommendation on modern Hondas. Indeed things have
changed a lot from the days when FL-1A size filters were the norm and
needed changing every 3,000 miles.

If you have a well equipped analytical laboratory handy then you are all
set to see what is really in your used filter. Otherwise, not much you
can do on the cheap.

John

There has to be a lot of "whatever" on the filter element.
Weigh a new filter. Now weigh a used filter, after you have drained the old
oil out.
I may not be able to detect what actually is on the filter element, but it
has to be something that is not good to let through ?

>> Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything?

"mrdancer" <mrdancer@iw.net> wrote in message
news:FeednTNEpYp1_zzeRVn-uQ@prairiewave.com...
> "N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:qgdof.48333$lh.5341@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>> N.E.Ohio Bob wrote:
>> > Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything? Is
>> > there anything that gets into the oil that needs to be removed?
>> > If oil filters keep getting smaller, they're gonna be the size of a
>> > pack of gum. bob
>>
>> Well, no replies..... Next question then. What test can be done on
>> the filter from my car (92 Accord LX, 225,000 mi) to see what is trapped
>> in there after 5000 miles? bob
>
> Get a hacksaw and cut the filter in half - it's not too hard, they are
> made
> of pretty thin metal. Look closely at the internals and you should be
> able
> to pick out some debris, unless your engine is really clean, not too new,
> not too old, etc. A new engine will still be 'breaking in' and could have
> more wear particles in the oil, whereas an old engine will be starting to
> wear out and could have more wear particles in the oil. If you do a lot
> of
> city driving, you will likely have dirty oil. If you drive 40k miles /yr
> like I do, your oil will likely be quite clean if/when you change if by
> the
> recommended schedule. Just stuff to keep in mind...
>
>
You will see some debris - from the hacksaw cut :-]
Greg.

Greg wrote:
>
> You will see some debris - from the hacksaw cut :-]

Sure, so use a large pipe cutter.

Eric

Eye Indo wrote:

> > Any REAL proof that the oil filter actually filters anything?
>
> There has to be a lot of "whatever" on the filter element.
> Weigh a new filter. Now weigh a used filter, after you have drained the
> old oil out.
> I may not be able to detect what actually is on the filter element, but it
> has to be something that is not good to let through ?
>

That was going to be my suggestion. One could cut open a new oil filter,
remove the element and weigh it, soak it in clean oil, and then drain it
thoroughly. Now, take the used oil filter element and drain it. Weigh both
filter elements and compare the difference. To compensate for inherent
variability in the weights of the filter elements, it would be best to
repeat the process several times and use the mean of your measurements for
comparison.

Eric