Honda Car Forum

Hi all,

Posted a few days about my sister's 99 civic non vtec. She broke the t-belt,
and the dealership put it back together.

Well it runs, but no compression on Cylinder 3. The shop recommends an
engine replacement since the labour to get the head off and mill it and
replace the damaged components is excessive. Before you get all excited,
this is what they said:

All prices in Canadian $$
$695 for a used motor with 131000kms on it

1200 labour for the install.

VERSUS

$1000 labour for removal of the head and respective components
$200 for parts (valves. seals, head gasket and other junk for cylinder 3)
$500 to send the head to a shop for machining.

Here are my questions:

1. How hard would it be to take the head off and replace the valves in
Cylinder 3?

2. Do I have to get all of the seats machined?

3. Can I inspect the valve seats once the head is removed and make the call
then as to whether they need to be machined at all?

I do have the Honda shop manual, it doesn't look that bad.

Feedback please. What am I missing here?

t

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200511/1

Based on some of the research I have done today I see the following as
possible courses of action:

1. Repair the head - hopefully the damage is not that bad, and its only a
valve that needs to be replaced.

2. Replace the head - If I can find a replacement head for the motor, I
could just swap them. Are the heads different on different model years
between 96 and 00?

3. Replace the motor- I found a motor for $600 - 800 canadian. Haven't
negotiated yet, but this could be viable as well.

What does everyone think?
t

T L wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Posted a few days about my sister's 99 civic non vtec. She broke the t-belt,
>and the dealership put it back together.
>
>Well it runs, but no compression on Cylinder 3. The shop recommends an
>engine replacement since the labour to get the head off and mill it and
>replace the damaged components is excessive. Before you get all excited,
>this is what they said:
>
>All prices in Canadian $$
>$695 for a used motor with 131000kms on it
>
>1200 labour for the install.
>
>VERSUS
>
>$1000 labour for removal of the head and respective components
>$200 for parts (valves. seals, head gasket and other junk for cylinder 3)
>$500 to send the head to a shop for machining.
>
>Here are my questions:
>
>1. How hard would it be to take the head off and replace the valves in
>Cylinder 3?
>
>2. Do I have to get all of the seats machined?
>
>3. Can I inspect the valve seats once the head is removed and make the call
>then as to whether they need to be machined at all?
>
>I do have the Honda shop manual, it doesn't look that bad.
>
>Feedback please. What am I missing here?
>
>t

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200511/1

"T L via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote in news:580e9e5c5abac@uwe:

> Hi all,
>
> Posted a few days about my sister's 99 civic non vtec. She broke the
> t-belt, and the dealership put it back together.
>
> Well it runs, but no compression on Cylinder 3. The shop recommends
> an engine replacement since the labour to get the head off and mill it
> and replace the damaged components is excessive. Before you get all
> excited, this is what they said:
>
> All prices in Canadian $$
> $695 for a used motor with 131000kms on it
>
> 1200 labour for the install.
>
> VERSUS
>
> $1000 labour for removal of the head and respective components
> $200 for parts (valves. seals, head gasket and other junk for cylinder
> 3) $500 to send the head to a shop for machining.
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> 1. How hard would it be to take the head off and replace the valves in
> Cylinder 3?
>
> 2. Do I have to get all of the seats machined?
>
> 3. Can I inspect the valve seats once the head is removed and make the
> call then as to whether they need to be machined at all?
>
> I do have the Honda shop manual, it doesn't look that bad.
>
> Feedback please. What am I missing here?
>
> t
>

Why couldn't you just get a head from a junkyard motor?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"T L via CarKB.com" wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Posted a few days about my sister's 99 civic non vtec. She broke the
> t-belt, and the dealership put it back together.
>
> Well it runs, but no compression on Cylinder 3. The shop recommends an
> engine replacement since the labour to get the head off and mill it and
> replace the damaged components is excessive. Before you get all excited,
> this is what they said:
>
> All prices in Canadian $$
> $695 for a used motor with 131000kms on it
>
> 1200 labour for the install.
>
> VERSUS
>
> $1000 labour for removal of the head and respective components
> $200 for parts (valves. seals, head gasket and other junk for cylinder 3)
> $500 to send the head to a shop for machining.
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> 1. How hard would it be to take the head off and replace the valves in
> Cylinder 3?
>
> 2. Do I have to get all of the seats machined?
>
> 3. Can I inspect the valve seats once the head is removed and make the
> call then as to whether they need to be machined at all?
>
> I do have the Honda shop manual, it doesn't look that bad.
>
> Feedback please. What am I missing here?

The information below is from a recent post mine dated 10/31 under the
subject Re: 89 Honda Prelude...
_________________________________
Claudio wrote:
>
> Once my timimg belt broke on my 89 Prelude, my valves got damaged. Im
> looking for a engine, or a rebuilt head in the Quebec, Canada area. I'm a
> student in High school, so I don't have allot of money. Luckly my father
> will do all the repairs, but it's up to me to come up if all the parts. I
> need help.......
>

If the rest of the engine is in good condition, e.g., it doesn't burn oil,
then just pull the head and replace the bent valves. There's usually no
need to replace the head. Note that you will need to lap the new valves in
to make sure that they seat well (be exceedingly meticulous about removing
all traces of lapping compound afterward). Also note these older engines
have a peculiar problem when the head is pulled. That is, they often start
burning oil afterwards. It's believed that this is due to the crud in the
piston ring grooves drying out and preventing the rings from seating
correctly. The best way to avoid this is to put a small amount of ATF in
the cylinders to cover the top of the pistons once you remove the head.
This will keep things from drying out. Be sure to remove the ATF from the
piston tops before the head is reinstalled. You should also consider
replacing the valve stem seals when you have the head off. Only use Honda's
OEM seals if you want to avoid problems further down the road.

By the way, when you replace the timing belt, it's a good idea to also
replace the water pump, timing belt tensioner bearing, and cam & front crank
seals. The front seal can be a pain in the ass at best to replace. The
best way to do this is to cut out a rectangle from a clean plastic pop
bottle and use it as a sleeve wrapped around the seal journal of the
crankshaft. Slide the seal over the sleeve (make sure that there's grease
on the inner lip) and remove the sleeve. Then get a flat washer that's
about the same size as the seal and use it as a seal driver to carefully tap
the seal into its bore with a hammer and punch. Tap the washer gently
holding the washer against the seal and be sure not to get the seal
crooked. Note that if you tap directly against the seal, then you will
damage it. This is nearly unavoidable, that's why I always use some type of
seal driver. Honda makes seal drivers specifically for this purpose but
they're a bit expensive. I've found that a large flat washer (usually
called a "machine washer" at the hardware store) will suffice as a
substitute. Lastly, the cam seal is less of a pain but you should also use
the plastic sleeve. After you get the cam seal into position, it can
usually just be pushed into its correct position by hand (for example by
carefully using the blunt end of a socket extension bar and there's no need
to tap it in with a hammer).

One final thought, a factory service manual for your car can be obtained
from http://www.helminc.com. It's a great investment especially since you
plan to be doing so much work on your vehicle.

T L via CarKB.com wrote:
> Based on some of the research I have done today I see the following as
> possible courses of action:
>
> 1. Repair the head - hopefully the damage is not that bad, and its only a
> valve that needs to be replaced.

my preference

>
> 2. Replace the head - If I can find a replacement head for the motor, I
> could just swap them. Are the heads different on different model years
> between 96 and 00?

think they're identical. best check.

>
> 3. Replace the motor- I found a motor for $600 - 800 canadian. Haven't
> negotiated yet, but this could be viable as well.

last resort. if the "interference" between the piston crowns and the
valves is sufficient to damage the pistons, replacement may well be a
more cost effective solution than rebuilding the damaged motor. but
exhaust your other options first.

>
> What does everyone think?
> t
>
> T L wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Posted a few days about my sister's 99 civic non vtec. She broke the t-belt,
>>and the dealership put it back together.
>>
>>Well it runs, but no compression on Cylinder 3. The shop recommends an
>>engine replacement since the labour to get the head off and mill it and
>>replace the damaged components is excessive. Before you get all excited,
>>this is what they said:
>>
>>All prices in Canadian $$
>>$695 for a used motor with 131000kms on it
>>
>>1200 labour for the install.
>>
>>VERSUS
>>
>>$1000 labour for removal of the head and respective components
>>$200 for parts (valves. seals, head gasket and other junk for cylinder 3)
>>$500 to send the head to a shop for machining.
>>
>>Here are my questions:
>>
>>1. How hard would it be to take the head off and replace the valves in
>>Cylinder 3?
>>
>>2. Do I have to get all of the seats machined?
>>
>>3. Can I inspect the valve seats once the head is removed and make the call
>>then as to whether they need to be machined at all?
>>
>>I do have the Honda shop manual, it doesn't look that bad.
>>
>>Feedback please. What am I missing here?
>>
>>t
>
>

Checked, they come with the motor.

Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>>
>> t
>
>Why couldn't you just get a head from a junkyard motor?
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200511/1

"T L via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote in message news:580e9e5c5abac@uwe...

> Posted a few days about my sister's 99 civic non vtec. She broke the t-belt,
> and the dealership put it back together.
> Well it runs, but no compression on Cylinder 3. The shop recommends an
> engine replacement since the labour to get the head off and mill it and
> replace the damaged components is excessive. Before you get all excited,
> this is what they said:
> All prices in Canadian $$
> $695 for a used motor with 131000kms on it
> 1200 labour for the install.
> VERSUS
> $1000 labour for removal of the head and respective components
> $200 for parts (valves. seals, head gasket and other junk for cylinder 3)
> $500 to send the head to a shop for machining.
> Here are my questions:
> 1. How hard would it be to take the head off and replace the valves in
> Cylinder 3?

> 2. Do I have to get all of the seats machined?

Machining all of them would also help equalize the
compression and improve smooth idle... it's your call.