Honda Car Forum

Thank you very much for your informative reply.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:42:05 GMT, ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Stephenson) wrote:

>In article <he4cn15ikkbsvihp0rlbom29lkc3ausdlc@4ax.com>
> blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid "Bruce L. Bergman" writes:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:33:08 GMT, ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew
>> Stephenson) wrote:
>>
>> >One parallel is not exact but close: power lines commonly snag
>> >birds as they fly past. That's why you will see silvery balls
>> >strung on the lines, especially at valley mouths where flyways
>> >lead up into (and down from) hill country. Here in the UK the
>> >power company have cut local swan deaths by this precaution.
>>
>> Sorry, but no. That's not the primary reason why the visibility
>> balls are placed, or they would be installed on all power lines.
>>
>> [discussion of the US situation]
>
>Thanks for the insights on the USian setup. However, our local
>power company here in the eastern UK did install such power line
>decorations to save swans/geese/etc from accidents, when flying
>around favoured grazing/landing sites. Maybe they saved the odd
>plane too -- dunno.

Sorry, they're for light aircraft in the UK too.

Documents and reports should be available at your local HSE office, go
n and ask nicely. They should be able to find you the mountains of
reports on it.

>
>Back to the windmills: perhaps I ought to enquire as to rates of
>bird strike locally, now that more and more of the whirly things
>are being installed. Mind, some are offshore, by a mile or two,
>and I am guessing we can spare the odd seagull (breeding to pest
>numbers).

st-bum wrote:
> What's the relationship between torque and HP? I never understood
> that.
>
> And I had a year of physics at an engineering shchool.
>
> I know power is work and torque is twisting force (F * r), but somehow
> I would think the two would be very similar.
>

Torque X rotational speed = Power. To get the units right in various
systems, a conversion factor is used.

A very good discussion is available on the web at:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhorsepower.html

Power is the ability to do work. Work is needed to move a mass from one
place to another, to increase elevation, to increase velocity
(acceleration) and to overcome frictional losses like air resistance,
tire rolling resitance, etc.

Thus, for example, 200 ft. lbs. of torque at 4,000 RPM can accomplish
twice as much work as can 200 ft. lbs. of torque at 2,000 RPM. Put
another way, 400 ft. lbs. at 1,000 RPM can do the same work as does 200
ft. lbs at 2,000 RPM. For the units used in the US:

Power (HP) = [Engine Speed (RPM) x Engine Torque (ft.lbs.)] / 5252

It is really that simple.

John

> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message

>>VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
>>
>>1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
>> 2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
>> 3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
>> 4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
>> 5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1


2006 is certain to take away a lot of the thunder from Mr. Hunter's
argument. Large truck and SUV sales are dropping like a rock while
sedan and small crossover SUV sales are increasing.

Somewhere in the next couple of years Toyota is going to pass GM in
worldwide sales volume and will never look back. If the Delphi
bankructcy results in supply distruptions to GM, which is highly likely,
then 2006 will be the year of the changing of leadership for sure.

Years ago GM unseated Ford and has never looked back. GM did it with a
better product range and agressive salesmanship. Unfortunately Detroit
has had it's eye off the ball for too many years now.

John

Michael Pardee wrote:
> But for producing
> hydrogen they could theoretically be made to pay off.
>
> Mike
>
>

An excellent point you make sir! Wind power to add to energy storage,
be that storage hydrogen or some form of battery, makes lots of sense.
It is much harder to make wind generators put out the constant voltage,
constant phase output the grid wants to see.

John

Michael Pardee wrote:

> Seriously, uses that don't care much about the unpredictable nature of wind
> power are a lot more attractive than going live on the public grids. Even
> pumping water for gravity storage makes sense where the water and land are
> suitable. Land that has the required characteristics for real-time wind
> power is amazingly scarce and can become expensive if demand increases. Land
> that has a usable amount of wind enough of the time for production
> enterprises is far more common.
>

Indeed. Before electric power and motors became ubiquitous, windmills
were commonly used to pump water out of wells for farms and ranches.
Their unpredictability and relatively high maintenance and repair
requirements compared to electric pumps all but eliminated wind power
from it's historic water pumping roll.

John

How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top five to
drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks and SUVs
still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot more car
models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you meant to say in
my opinion?

mike hunt


"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>
>>>VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
>>>
>>>1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
>>> 2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
>>> 3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
>>> 4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
>>> 5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
>
>
> 2006 is certain to take away a lot of the thunder from Mr. Hunter's
> argument. Large truck and SUV sales are dropping like a rock while sedan
> and small crossover SUV sales are increasing.
>
> Somewhere in the next couple of years Toyota is going to pass GM in
> worldwide sales volume and will never look back. If the Delphi bankructcy
> results in supply distruptions to GM, which is highly likely, then 2006
> will be the year of the changing of leadership for sure.
>
> Years ago GM unseated Ford and has never looked back. GM did it with a
> better product range and agressive salesmanship. Unfortunately Detroit
> has had it's eye off the ball for too many years now.
>
> John

Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales. Honda and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost over a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be out of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must buy
American" sheep.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top five
> to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks and
> SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot more
> car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you meant to
> say in my opinion?
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
>>>>
>>>>1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
>>>> 2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
>>>> 3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
>>>> 4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
>>>> 5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
>>
>>
>> 2006 is certain to take away a lot of the thunder from Mr. Hunter's
>> argument. Large truck and SUV sales are dropping like a rock while sedan
>> and small crossover SUV sales are increasing.
>>
>> Somewhere in the next couple of years Toyota is going to pass GM in
>> worldwide sales volume and will never look back. If the Delphi
>> bankructcy results in supply distruptions to GM, which is highly likely,
>> then 2006 will be the year of the changing of leadership for sure.
>>
>> Years ago GM unseated Ford and has never looked back. GM did it with a
>> better product range and agressive salesmanship. Unfortunately Detroit
>> has had it's eye off the ball for too many years now.
>>
>> John
>
>

I own a pickup and a minivan, and I notice that pickups always fall behind
on grades because of their poor wind resistance. It is why hybrid technology
is wasted on pickups and SUVs for MPG and why huge engines are wasted on
them also. You can push a billboard through the wind only so fast. It seems
like the fastest drivers on highways have Accords and Jettas.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
newsLWcnXYMp87ASOneUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> You are entitled to you own opinion but the proof is in the pudding, as
> they say. You can prove it too yourself if you wish. Drive in hilly or
> mountainous parts of the county and notice which vehicles fall behind
> others when you come to a grade. ;(
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:W3Rcf.19264$6M6.18583@trnddc04...
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> Not necessarily. It would depend at what RPMs each engine produced its
>>> maximum torque. It is after all tongue, not HP, that get the vehicle
>>> going from a stop and what keeps it going, at speed, up a long grade.
>>> The Pruis uses the electric motor when staring and adds it on grades
>>> because electric motors develop their greatest amount of tongue at start
>>> up. That is why most Toyota are under powered, compared to many of its
>>> competitors vehicles. . Toyota, like many import brand engines are
>>> designed to produce their HP at higher RPMs than the engines in domestic
>>> brands, that is why they run out of tongue rather quickly at speed.. The
>>> reason is domestics sell mostly automatic tyrannies in the majority of
>>> their vehicles that are equipped with tongue converters. On the other
>>> hand Japanese brands which use the same engines in cars sold in other
>>> countries that have a much larger percentage of their vehicle equipped
>>> with manual tyrannies. With a manual tranny the gear selector can be
>>> used to stay on the tongue curve to climb grades, particularly long
>>> grades.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Power is the ability to accomplish work from a physics point of view and
>> it is indeed power which is required to overcome wind resistance, move a
>> certain distance and/or increase potential energy (climb a hill).
>>
>> There is great misunderstanding about the relationship between torque and
>> power. In modern times the distinctions between manual and automatic
>> transmissions are becoming moot in this regard as today's automatic
>> transmissions often have five or six forward gears, which gives them even
>> more flexibility for optimizing the relationship between engine speed
>> (RPMs) and work being done than ever before. I don't think that you
>> actually understand the function of a torque converter either. It is
>> essentially and infinitely variable transmission which goes between the
>> engine and the main transmission and provides for a range of ratios
>> between the two. Modern ones also include an electrically activated
>> lockiing clutch to disable the converter under cruise conditions and thus
>> get rid of the high amount of power loss in the little buggers.
>>
>> In modern times the differences between "import" and "domestic" motor
>> design points is becomming smaller all the time. Cadillac's Northstar
>> has far more in common with a Lexus V-6 than it does with a traditional
>> 1960s style GM motor. The current GM Ecotec 4 cyclinder motor is very
>> similar to similar size Japanese and European designs. In fact, GM puts
>> a turbo version of it in the Saabs.
>>
>> Your Japanese/Domestic comparisons are off the mark and meaningless. I
>> will gladly take on any V-6 equipped modern Chevrolet or Ford at the
>> local drag strip or road racing course with my V-6 Honda Accord. GM is
>> only now starting to implement variable valve timing used to flatten the
>> torque curve as Honda has been doing for years.
>>
>> John
>
>

Once again you are confused. The sales figures are for the F150 & F250, the
Silverado and the Ram trucks for sizes up to 8,500 GVWR. IF all light
trucks were include, the total figures would be even higher.

Trucks over 8,500 like the F250HD and the F350 are not counted in the
individual sales figures. Light trucks like the current leaders has nothing
to do with discounts, light trucks have been outselling cars since 1975 when
the majority of car went to FWD. The Ford F150 is by far the best selling
vehicle had has been for nearly thirty years. When SUVs are included light
truck sales have exceed car sales for several years.

Perhaps you might want to do some research before commenting further on a
subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge, or at least say
in my opinion.


mike hunt


"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
> Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is a
> truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because Chrysler,
> Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales. Honda and
> Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost over a
> billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be out of
> business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must buy
> American" sheep.


> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>> How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top five
>> to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks and
>> SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot
>> more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you meant
>> to say in my opinion?
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>
>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
>>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>>VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
>>>>>
>>>>>1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
>>>>> 2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
>>>>> 3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
>>>>> 4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
>>>>> 5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
>>>