Honda Car Forum

The car has manual tranmission and has 209K miles. I only drive it for
short distances, usually under 10 miles and it will have no problem
whatsoever. However, for the past two weeks now, while driving the car
it will all of a sudden lose power, i.e., it will not respond even when
I step on the accelerator. The engine will eventually stop. It will
start immediately though when I turn the ignition on. I tried to put
fuel line cleaners thinking that there might be some debris as it
"chokes" occassionally as well. I thought it fixed it but it still does
it. I don't know if it makes a difference, but the fuel fill port has
been repaired because there was a hole due to rust. It does not appear
that the cap seals the port opening as it should. Does this make any
difference, i.e., pressure-related? I would love to continue using this
car even though it is old as it is one heck of a car. It passed NJ
state's 2-year inspection back in May with no problem.

Any advice/suggestion will be greatly appreciated.

<june.andres@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130885372.180632.114930@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> The car has manual tranmission and has 209K miles. I only drive it for
> short distances, usually under 10 miles and it will have no problem
> whatsoever. However, for the past two weeks now, while driving the car
> it will all of a sudden lose power, i.e., it will not respond even when
> I step on the accelerator. The engine will eventually stop. It will
> start immediately though when I turn the ignition on. I tried to put
> fuel line cleaners thinking that there might be some debris as it
> "chokes" occassionally as well. I thought it fixed it but it still does
> it. I don't know if it makes a difference, but the fuel fill port has
> been repaired because there was a hole due to rust. It does not appear
> that the cap seals the port opening as it should. Does this make any
> difference, i.e., pressure-related? I would love to continue using this
> car even though it is old as it is one heck of a car. It passed NJ
> state's 2-year inspection back in May with no problem.
>
> Any advice/suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
>
TeGGeR's faq site will certainly help you - the section you want is
http://tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#startrun . It really sounds like the
infamous "main relay" problem. See what you think.

Mike

Thanks for your response and the link. I will definitely check it as it
appears to address the issues I am having with the car.

After reading through the symptons below, it appears that I am better
off replacing both ignition switch and igniter. I think I observed all
the symptons of a failing igniter listed below with the exception of
the car not restarting after the engine cuts out. My car starts
immediately which is a sympton of a failing ignition switch. Is it
normal for these two components to go bad at the same time?


Ignition Switch:

Worn-out ignition contacts could
cause the engine to stall without warning. Although the
engine will restart in most cases, a vehicle that stalls
while driving increases the risk of a crash.

Igniter:

A bad igniter usually gives some lots of warning with bizarre symptoms.
Most commonly, the car will buck for a split second, like the engine
has just missed. At the same time, the tach will fall to zero. The tach
falling to zero as the engine loses power will definitively confirm
that the igniter is going south, so watch carefully if your car seems
to momentarily lose power. In most cases of igniter failure, the Check
Engine light does not come on with a Code 15, which is Honda's code for
igniter problems.

You may eventually experience shuddering just before the car dies for
good. Usually the car simply dies outright with little warning, and
refuses to restart, even once it cools down. There have been reports of
the car restarting once cool, so the igniter can be confused with a bad
Main Relay or coil. Observing symptoms is critical to diagnosis,
especially with regard to the tach.

One other thing to look at if all of the rest below fails is the fuel
filter: it and the fuel pump are inside the tank (I dunno if the fuel
injected version has secondary pump or filter elsewhere), and if rust
and crud got into the tank from the holed filler pipe, it could be
clogging the filter, which would cause an injected engine to die pretty
readily. Once the engine stops and the fuel pump shuts down, of course,
the crud would drop off, letting you run normally until it pulls enough
crud onto the filter to kill it again.

But again, that's something to check IF the ignition switch and igniter
prove not to be the problem...


june.andres@gmail.com wrote:
> After reading through the symptons below, it appears that I am better
> off replacing both ignition switch and igniter. I think I observed all
> the symptons of a failing igniter listed below with the exception of
> the car not restarting after the engine cuts out. My car starts
> immediately which is a sympton of a failing ignition switch. Is it
> normal for these two components to go bad at the same time?
>
>
> Ignition Switch:
>
> Worn-out ignition contacts could
> cause the engine to stall without warning. Although the
> engine will restart in most cases, a vehicle that stalls
> while driving increases the risk of a crash.
>
> Igniter:
>
> A bad igniter usually gives some lots of warning with bizarre symptoms.
> Most commonly, the car will buck for a split second, like the engine
> has just missed. At the same time, the tach will fall to zero. The tach
> falling to zero as the engine loses power will definitively confirm
> that the igniter is going south, so watch carefully if your car seems
> to momentarily lose power. In most cases of igniter failure, the Check
> Engine light does not come on with a Code 15, which is Honda's code for
> igniter problems.
>
> You may eventually experience shuddering just before the car dies for
> good. Usually the car simply dies outright with little warning, and
> refuses to restart, even once it cools down. There have been reports of
> the car restarting once cool, so the igniter can be confused with a bad
> Main Relay or coil. Observing symptoms is critical to diagnosis,
> especially with regard to the tach.
>


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Thanks for your added advice. I will try this first as the fuel
filter(s) are a lot cheaper than the igniter and ignition switch. In my
earlier post, I mentioned that I added fuel injection cleaner (when the
fuel gage was half full). For the next 3 days, the engine did not
cutout. When I filled the tank with new fuel and did not add fuel
injection cleaner, the problem was back. If the fuel filter(s) are not
the issue, then I will next change the igniter and ignition switch.


Matt Ion wrote:
> One other thing to look at if all of the rest below fails is the fuel
> filter: it and the fuel pump are inside the tank (I dunno if the fuel
> injected version has secondary pump or filter elsewhere), and if rust
> and crud got into the tank from the holed filler pipe, it could be
> clogging the filter, which would cause an injected engine to die pretty
> readily. Once the engine stops and the fuel pump shuts down, of course,
> the crud would drop off, letting you run normally until it pulls enough
> crud onto the filter to kill it again.
>
> But again, that's something to check IF the ignition switch and igniter
> prove not to be the problem...
>
>
> june.andres@gmail.com wrote:
> > After reading through the symptons below, it appears that I am better
> > off replacing both ignition switch and igniter. I think I observed all
> > the symptons of a failing igniter listed below with the exception of
> > the car not restarting after the engine cuts out. My car starts
> > immediately which is a sympton of a failing ignition switch. Is it
> > normal for these two components to go bad at the same time?
> >
> >
> > Ignition Switch:
> >
> > Worn-out ignition contacts could
> > cause the engine to stall without warning. Although the
> > engine will restart in most cases, a vehicle that stalls
> > while driving increases the risk of a crash.
> >
> > Igniter:
> >
> > A bad igniter usually gives some lots of warning with bizarre symptoms.
> > Most commonly, the car will buck for a split second, like the engine
> > has just missed. At the same time, the tach will fall to zero. The tach
> > falling to zero as the engine loses power will definitively confirm
> > that the igniter is going south, so watch carefully if your car seems
> > to momentarily lose power. In most cases of igniter failure, the Check
> > Engine light does not come on with a Code 15, which is Honda's code for
> > igniter problems.
> >
> > You may eventually experience shuddering just before the car dies for
> > good. Usually the car simply dies outright with little warning, and
> > refuses to restart, even once it cools down. There have been reports of
> > the car restarting once cool, so the igniter can be confused with a bad
> > Main Relay or coil. Observing symptoms is critical to diagnosis,
> > especially with regard to the tach.
> >
>
>
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> Virus Database (VPS): 0544-1, 11/01/2005
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Hmm, true, checking the filter for problems is certainly easier than
testing the igniter and what not Might want to give your tank a fair
dose of methyl hydrate as well, in case the hole let excessive moisture
into the tank.

june.andres@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for your added advice. I will try this first as the fuel
> filter(s) are a lot cheaper than the igniter and ignition switch. In my
> earlier post, I mentioned that I added fuel injection cleaner (when the
> fuel gage was half full). For the next 3 days, the engine did not
> cutout. When I filled the tank with new fuel and did not add fuel
> injection cleaner, the problem was back. If the fuel filter(s) are not
> the issue, then I will next change the igniter and ignition switch.
>
>
> Matt Ion wrote:
>
>>One other thing to look at if all of the rest below fails is the fuel
>>filter: it and the fuel pump are inside the tank (I dunno if the fuel
>>injected version has secondary pump or filter elsewhere), and if rust
>>and crud got into the tank from the holed filler pipe, it could be
>>clogging the filter, which would cause an injected engine to die pretty
>>readily. Once the engine stops and the fuel pump shuts down, of course,
>>the crud would drop off, letting you run normally until it pulls enough
>>crud onto the filter to kill it again.
>>
>>But again, that's something to check IF the ignition switch and igniter
>>prove not to be the problem...
>>
>>
>>june.andres@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>After reading through the symptons below, it appears that I am better
>>>off replacing both ignition switch and igniter. I think I observed all
>>>the symptons of a failing igniter listed below with the exception of
>>>the car not restarting after the engine cuts out. My car starts
>>>immediately which is a sympton of a failing ignition switch. Is it
>>>normal for these two components to go bad at the same time?
>>>
>>>
>>>Ignition Switch:
>>>
>>>Worn-out ignition contacts could
>>>cause the engine to stall without warning. Although the
>>>engine will restart in most cases, a vehicle that stalls
>>>while driving increases the risk of a crash.
>>>
>>>Igniter:
>>>
>>>A bad igniter usually gives some lots of warning with bizarre symptoms.
>>>Most commonly, the car will buck for a split second, like the engine
>>>has just missed. At the same time, the tach will fall to zero. The tach
>>>falling to zero as the engine loses power will definitively confirm
>>>that the igniter is going south, so watch carefully if your car seems
>>>to momentarily lose power. In most cases of igniter failure, the Check
>>>Engine light does not come on with a Code 15, which is Honda's code for
>>>igniter problems.
>>>
>>>You may eventually experience shuddering just before the car dies for
>>>good. Usually the car simply dies outright with little warning, and
>>>refuses to restart, even once it cools down. There have been reports of
>>>the car restarting once cool, so the igniter can be confused with a bad
>>>Main Relay or coil. Observing symptoms is critical to diagnosis,
>>>especially with regard to the tach.
>>>
>>
>>
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>>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>Virus Database (VPS): 0544-1, 11/01/2005
>>Tested on: 11/1/2005 11:51:53 PM
>>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
>>http://www.avast.com
>
>


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<june.andres@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1130926557.143337.230180@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

> it. I don't know if it makes a difference, but the fuel fill port has
> been repaired because there was a hole due to rust. It does not appear
> that the cap seals the port opening as it should. Does this make any
> difference, i.e., pressure-related?

If the relieve valve on the cap is blocked then you might loose fuel
pressure and stall. If that's the case you might see a warped gas tank.

> Thanks for your added advice. I will try this first as the fuel
> filter(s) are a lot cheaper than the igniter and ignition switch. In my
> earlier post, I mentioned that I added fuel injection cleaner (when the
> fuel gage was half full). For the next 3 days, the engine did not
> cutout. When I filled the tank with new fuel and did not add fuel
> injection cleaner, the problem was back. If the fuel filter(s) are not
> the issue, then I will next change the igniter and ignition switch.

If it's the ignition switch then your dash light will go dark when it stalls.
I doub't it's the igniter. My NEC igniter is over 280k miles.