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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06 Feb 2011, 06:50 pm
PE
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Posts: n/a
Default 09 Civic EX starting problem

Hi all: I have a 2009 Civ EX that was purchased new about 18 mos. ago and
now has approx 18000 miles. Car has had all recommended service, including
the 15K service about a month ago. The car has run flawlessly the whole
time I've had it, up until this morning when I had a starting problem. When
I turned the key, the engine caught on as usual but then immediately
stumbled and died. I made a number of additional attempts without success,
each time the starter cranked the engine but either it wouldn't catch at
all, or it would catch on but then immediately stumble and die. Then, about
the 8th or 9th try, the engine caught on immediately and idled smoothly in
normal fashion. And I have since driven the car around town and it has been
running and starting normally.

If anyone has any suggestion(s) re. likely cause of symptom described above
I'd love to hear it/them. Is this a symptom of a known intermittent problem
with this model? How can I get the dealer to diagnose and fix whatever is
wrong if the problem won't recur in the dealership? If it happens again, is
there anything I should try to do or notice in an attempt to identify the
cause? Any other thoughts/suggestions? Thanks for your replies!

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06 Feb 2011, 08:30 pm
Jim Yanik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

"PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:zb-dnU4ZyL2V39LQnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com:

> Hi all: I have a 2009 Civ EX that was purchased new about 18 mos. ago
> and now has approx 18000 miles. Car has had all recommended service,
> including the 15K service about a month ago. The car has run
> flawlessly the whole time I've had it, up until this morning when I
> had a starting problem. When I turned the key, the engine caught on
> as usual but then immediately stumbled and died. I made a number of
> additional attempts without success, each time the starter cranked the
> engine but either it wouldn't catch at all, or it would catch on but
> then immediately stumble and die. Then, about the 8th or 9th try, the
> engine caught on immediately and idled smoothly in normal fashion.
> And I have since driven the car around town and it has been running
> and starting normally.
>
> If anyone has any suggestion(s) re. likely cause of symptom described
> above I'd love to hear it/them. Is this a symptom of a known
> intermittent problem with this model? How can I get the dealer to
> diagnose and fix whatever is wrong if the problem won't recur in the
> dealership? If it happens again, is there anything I should try to do
> or notice in an attempt to identify the cause? Any other
> thoughts/suggestions? Thanks for your replies!
>
>


could be the "main relay",the one that energizes the fuel pump.
It's been a common Honda/Acura problem for many years.
but unusual for such a new vehicle,though.
your engine starts,then runs out of fuel.
the relay is usually located under the dash on the driver's side;if you
give it a kick,it often gets your car going again.


It could also be a bad ignition switch.
do you have a lot of junk on your key ring? that can ruin a ignition
switch.

try jiggling the key in the switch.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07 Feb 2011, 04:43 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

In article <zb-dnU4ZyL2V39LQnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Hi all: I have a 2009 Civ EX that was purchased new about 18 mos. ago and
> now has approx 18000 miles.


In which case, you don't pass Go, you don't collect $200, you go
*immediately* to the dealer and ask him these questions.



> How can I get the dealer to diagnose and fix whatever is
> wrong if the problem won't recur in the dealership?


It doesn't matter right now. What matters is that if you can't
duplicate the problem, you still have the dealer look at the car for
this--pull codes, etc.

This may be a known problem. Make sure he checks for any TSBs. If you
want to go forearmed, Honda offers their online service system for you
to use; ten bucks for three days, and you can download any recalls and
bulletins and see whatever other service information you like for your
car.

Number one is to register your concern with the dealer, right now. Your
car is under warranty. Make him fix it.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07 Feb 2011, 07:07 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

"PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:zb-dnU4ZyL2V39LQnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com:

> Hi all: I have a 2009 Civ EX that was purchased new about 18 mos. ago
> and now has approx 18000 miles. Car has had all recommended service,
> including the 15K service about a month ago. The car has run
> flawlessly the whole time I've had it, up until this morning when I
> had a starting problem. When I turned the key, the engine caught on
> as usual but then immediately stumbled and died. I made a number of
> additional attempts without success, each time the starter cranked the
> engine but either it wouldn't catch at all, or it would catch on but
> then immediately stumble and die. Then, about the 8th or 9th try, the
> engine caught on immediately and idled smoothly in normal fashion.
> And I have since driven the car around town and it has been running
> and starting normally.
>
> If anyone has any suggestion(s) re. likely cause of symptom described
> above I'd love to hear it/them. Is this a symptom of a known
> intermittent problem with this model? How can I get the dealer to
> diagnose and fix whatever is wrong if the problem won't recur in the
> dealership? If it happens again, is there anything I should try to do
> or notice in an attempt to identify the cause? Any other
> thoughts/suggestions? Thanks for your replies!
>




This is not a known problem.

Is the Check Engine light on?
Are there any stored codes?

If the car was purchased NEW 18 months ago, then you have a valid warranty
in effect; let the dealer sort this one out. Posting an update would be
nice, and that way you'd be educating me and others.

If there are no codes stored, this may be a tough one for the dealer to
solve. Intermittents that leave no traces are the kinds of problems that
keep techs awake at night.

The dealer should check for codes and note the OBD-II parameters. If all
appears normal, you should let the problem happen again in the hopes that
more evidence may help the dealer solve this.

And if it ends up being a one-time thing -- not uncommon with today's
complex engine-controls -- then forget about it.


--
Tegger
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07 Feb 2011, 07:08 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9E84DAE1BFE65jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.4 4:


>>

>
> could be the "main relay",the one that energizes the fuel pump.
> It's been a common Honda/Acura problem for many years.
> but unusual for such a new vehicle,though.



As of about 2001, Honda broke the old Main Relay into 2 separate relays.
The new design is very reliable.




--
Tegger
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07 Feb 2011, 08:39 pm
PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

"Not a known problem"??????????????? Are you sure about that? Try doing a
Google search using the search string "2009 Honda Civic Starting Problem"
and see what you get.

"Tegger" <invalid@example.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9E85CCB714F06tegger@208.90.168.18...
> "PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
> news:zb-dnU4ZyL2V39LQnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>
>> Hi all: I have a 2009 Civ EX that was purchased new about 18 mos. ago
>> and now has approx 18000 miles. Car has had all recommended service,
>> including the 15K service about a month ago. The car has run
>> flawlessly the whole time I've had it, up until this morning when I
>> had a starting problem. When I turned the key, the engine caught on
>> as usual but then immediately stumbled and died. I made a number of
>> additional attempts without success, each time the starter cranked the
>> engine but either it wouldn't catch at all, or it would catch on but
>> then immediately stumble and die. Then, about the 8th or 9th try, the
>> engine caught on immediately and idled smoothly in normal fashion.
>> And I have since driven the car around town and it has been running
>> and starting normally.
>>
>> If anyone has any suggestion(s) re. likely cause of symptom described
>> above I'd love to hear it/them. Is this a symptom of a known
>> intermittent problem with this model? How can I get the dealer to
>> diagnose and fix whatever is wrong if the problem won't recur in the
>> dealership? If it happens again, is there anything I should try to do
>> or notice in an attempt to identify the cause? Any other
>> thoughts/suggestions? Thanks for your replies!
>>

>
>
>
> This is not a known problem.
>
> Is the Check Engine light on?
> Are there any stored codes?
>
> If the car was purchased NEW 18 months ago, then you have a valid warranty
> in effect; let the dealer sort this one out. Posting an update would be
> nice, and that way you'd be educating me and others.
>
> If there are no codes stored, this may be a tough one for the dealer to
> solve. Intermittents that leave no traces are the kinds of problems that
> keep techs awake at night.
>
> The dealer should check for codes and note the OBD-II parameters. If all
> appears normal, you should let the problem happen again in the hopes that
> more evidence may help the dealer solve this.
>
> And if it ends up being a one-time thing -- not uncommon with today's
> complex engine-controls -- then forget about it.
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07 Feb 2011, 09:03 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

"PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:xYednboayfiRMM3QnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:

> "Not a known problem"??????????????? Are you sure about that?




Yep.


> Try doing a Google search using the search string "2009 Honda Civic
> Starting Problem" and see what you get.




I tried the search using other model-years, and I get similar results.
These reports are basically meaningless.

Honda has no TSBs or other documentation, and they're not at all shy about
admitting problems. Maybe this is a new issue, and they haven't put out a
TSB on it yet, I don't know.

Answer these questions, please:
Is the Check Engine light on?
Are there any stored codes?


--
Tegger
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08 Feb 2011, 02:19 am
PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

The check engine light is not on, and I don't have the diagnostic equipment
needed to query the computer for stored trouble codes. Note that most of
the many who posted about a similar problem in the Honda on-line discussion
forums also reported that the dealers couldn't find any stored trouble
codes.

And why do you conclude that all those reports in the Honda forums are
"basically meaningless"? Do you believe that absence of stored trouble
codes guarantys that there's no problem?

"Tegger" <invalid@example.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9E85E065AF49Ategger@208.90.168.18...
> "PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
> news:xYednboayfiRMM3QnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>
>> "Not a known problem"??????????????? Are you sure about that?

>
>
>
> Yep.
>
>
>> Try doing a Google search using the search string "2009 Honda Civic
>> Starting Problem" and see what you get.

>
>
>
> I tried the search using other model-years, and I get similar results.
> These reports are basically meaningless.
>
> Honda has no TSBs or other documentation, and they're not at all shy about
> admitting problems. Maybe this is a new issue, and they haven't put out a
> TSB on it yet, I don't know.
>
> Answer these questions, please:
> Is the Check Engine light on?
> Are there any stored codes?
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08 Feb 2011, 06:51 am
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

"PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:37idnUY5KPUZYc3QnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@earthlink.co m:
>
> "Tegger" <invalid@example.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9E85E065AF49Ategger@208.90.168.18...


>>
>> I tried the search using other model-years, and I get similar
>> results. These reports are basically meaningless.
>>
>> Honda has no TSBs or other documentation, and they're not at all shy
>> about admitting problems. Maybe this is a new issue, and they haven't
>> put out a TSB on it yet, I don't know.
>>
>> Answer these questions, please:
>> Is the Check Engine light on?
>> Are there any stored codes?
>>
>>

>
> The check engine light is not on, and I don't have the diagnostic
> equipment needed to query the computer for stored trouble codes. Note
> that most of the many who posted about a similar problem in the Honda
> on-line discussion forums also reported that the dealers couldn't find
> any stored trouble codes.




And as I said, occasional no-starts are present across all model years.
From what I see, these days it appears to be the computer refusing to
fire the injectors, for whatever logical reason it had.


>
> And why do you conclude that all those reports in the Honda forums are
> "basically meaningless"?



See above. Anybody can complain on the Internet, and anybody does. It
does not follow that there are any actual, findable problems behind
those complaints.

That's why the NHSTA, for one, does not normally act until it receives
at least a thousand complaints on a specific issue with a specific
model. Numbers below that fall into the "white noise" category.



> Do you believe that absence of stored
> trouble codes guarantys that there's no problem?




Not "guarantee", no, but there's a very good chance that there's nothing
wrong with the car.

Engine controls are extremly complex these days. It does occasionally
happen that the computer gets randomly confused and shuts off the
injectors, preventing a start.

If this issue happens only the once, then it's a random shutdown. If it
happens more times after this, then you may have an actual issue. For
now, forget about it. It will probably never happen again.



--
Tegger
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08 Feb 2011, 09:40 am
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 09 Civic EX starting problem

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9E84DAE1BFE65jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.4 4:

> "PE" <ple@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
> news:zb-dnU4ZyL2V39LQnZ2dnUVZ_rydnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>
>> Hi all: I have a 2009 Civ EX that was purchased new about 18 mos. ago
>> and now has approx 18000 miles. Car has had all recommended service,
>> including the 15K service about a month ago. The car has run
>> flawlessly the whole time I've had it, up until this morning when I
>> had a starting problem. When I turned the key, the engine caught on
>> as usual but then immediately stumbled and died. I made a number of
>> additional attempts without success, each time the starter cranked the
>> engine but either it wouldn't catch at all, or it would catch on but
>> then immediately stumble and die. Then, about the 8th or 9th try, the
>> engine caught on immediately and idled smoothly in normal fashion.
>> And I have since driven the car around town and it has been running
>> and starting normally.
>>
>> If anyone has any suggestion(s) re. likely cause of symptom described
>> above I'd love to hear it/them. Is this a symptom of a known
>> intermittent problem with this model? How can I get the dealer to
>> diagnose and fix whatever is wrong if the problem won't recur in the
>> dealership? If it happens again, is there anything I should try to do
>> or notice in an attempt to identify the cause? Any other
>> thoughts/suggestions? Thanks for your replies!
>>
>>

>
> could be the "main relay",the one that energizes the fuel pump.
> It's been a common Honda/Acura problem for many years.
> but unusual for such a new vehicle,though.
> your engine starts,then runs out of fuel.
> the relay is usually located under the dash on the driver's side;if you
> give it a kick,it often gets your car going again.
>
>
> It could also be a bad ignition switch.
> do you have a lot of junk on your key ring? that can ruin a ignition
> switch.
>
> try jiggling the key in the switch.
>
>


After Googling "2009 Honda civic starting problem",I saw a post on the 2nd
page where a guy had a "Mitsuba" fuel relay problem causing his 2009 Civic
SI to not start. replacing the relay solved it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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