Honda Car Forum

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:59:34 -0400, Brent Secombe wrote:

> In article <CaqdnRPPBNAOHMneRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>, jim beam
> <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku wrote:
>> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:19:40 -0400, Brent Secombe wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>In article <pan.2005.10.17.13.41.27.970637@ae86.gts>, Hachiroku
>> >><Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:11:58 -0400, Brent Secombe wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>In article <pan.2005.10.17.04.43.52.586135@ae86.gts>, Hachiroku
>> >>>><Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:06:12 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Hachiroku wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to
>> >>>>>>>the
>> >>>>>>>Indy Racing League (IRL)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share
>> >>>>>>>of
>> >>>>>>>British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>> >>>>>>>likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be
>> >>>>>>>a
>> >>>>>>>stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese
>> >>>>>>>when
>> >>>>>>>it comes to engines!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>do you find it ironic?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Not really. The Japanese have been creeping into the world racing scenes,
>> >>>>>and their engines have been getting better and better. I am curious as to
>> >>>>>why Cevy dropped the ball, though.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Still, it seems an odd digression from a quest for more economical
>> >>>>engines, doesn't it? As the public becomes sensitised to squandering
>> >>>>our grandchildren's energy supplies, will corporations benefit by being
>> >>>>associated with the waste?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Brent
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Hmmmm....interesting take on the problem.
>> >>>
>> >>>Except, you DO know these engines run on Methanol, right? And that
>> >>>methanol is made from Corn (methanol is actually a form of grain alchohol,
>> >>>or "White Lightening" or "Moonshine")
>> >>>
>> >>>If anything, the means to ectract 700+ HP from an engine running Grain
>> >>>Alchohol should be commended. Add to that the fact they've been doing it
>> >>>for almost 20 years now, and the real question SHOULD be, why aren't we
>> >>>developing this technology for street cars.
>> >>>
>> >>>Now, at the current time, methanol is VERY expensive, mush more than
>> >>>gasoline. IIRC, the current price for methanol racing fuel is about $6 per
>> >>>gallon, but this is a purely refined form.
>> >>>
>> >>>If the technology came into use more, there is no reason why the car
>> >>>you're driving couldn't un on 25-30% methanol. And if the government had
>> >>>taken note, instead of playing ball with the fuel companies for the last
>> >>>20 years, there would have been plenty of oil if there had been more
>> >>>widespread ethanol replacement. I have been running a 10% mixture of
>> >>>gasoline and ethanol in one of my cars for almost 20 years now (I seek the
>> >>>stuff out!) and it still seems to be running just fine. Now the IRL has
>> >>>announced it will be running an Ethanol/Methanol mix beginning for the
>> >>>year 2006.
>> >>>
>> >>>ALL CART/Champ Cars/IRL cars have been running on Methanol since 1979 or
>> >>>1980.
>> >>>
>> >>>Actually, I'm wrong. From the IRL page:
>> >>>"Methanol has been the fuel of choice in cars running in the Indianapolis
>> >>>500 since 1965. A fatal accident involving drivers Eddie Sachs and Dave
>> >>>MacDonald on the second lap of the 1964 Indianapolis 500 prompted the
>> >>>switch."
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/ert/acti...s-alcohol.html
>> >>>
>> >>>http://www.mocorn.org/news/2005/News...ase3-03-05.htm
>> >>>
>> >>>http://www.g-forse.com/archive/news356_e.html
>> >>
>> >>Thank you. No, I didn't know about the methanol. I don't follow racing.
>> >>I'm pleased to learn that the fuel is from a renewable resource.
>> >>
>> >>I was born completely ignorant, and I'm still playing catch-up. :-)
>> >>
>> >>Brent
>> >
>> >
>> > Gee, I think I was too...I can't remember back that far!
>> >
>> > Yes, it is a renewable resource, and I wish they would take what they have
>> > learned and apply it to our street cars!
>>
>> i wouldn't be too happy if they did. lower calorific value of
>> enthanol/methanol means lower output and lower mpg's. unadulterated
>> gasoline is the way to go. cheaper too.
>
> I guess it comes down to miles per gallon-of-what. We postponed
> breeding new dinosaurs, so eventually we'll be stuck with energy from
> non-petro sources. I bet you're right about lower mpg's; but if it
> comes down to a choice between 30 mpg on a fuel we've exhausted or 10
> mpg on distilled dandelions, we'll have to go with the dandelions...
>
> ... in which case Scott's will come out with a lawn product that gets
> rid of all that ugly grass among the dandelions. :-)
>
> Brent


Well, the other thing is that burning ethanol is a bit cleaner than the
petro fuels, so you'd think the Earthy Crunchies would be rallying for it!

Instead we go for Hydrogen, which is just as difficult to produce, is a
LOT more dangerous and right now requires MAJOR engine redesigns!

I'll take the dandelions...they make good wine, too!

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:00:18 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:

>After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
>Indy Racing League (IRL)
>
>Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
>British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
>stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese when
>it comes to engines!

Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the close racing of the new
A1 series. 3rd ever meting (races 5 and 6) are this weekend, i think -
www.a1gp.com

The american and Japaneese teams haven't done so well, britain and
canada did well as did New Zeland. Oh and its a british made engine.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:34:30 -0400, flobert wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:00:18 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>
>>After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
>>Indy Racing League (IRL)
>>
>>Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
>>British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>>likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
>>stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese when
>>it comes to engines!
>
> Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the close racing of the new
> A1 series. 3rd ever meting (races 5 and 6) are this weekend, i think -
> www.a1gp.com
>
> The american and Japaneese teams haven't done so well, britain and
> canada did well as did New Zeland. Oh and its a british made engine.

Actually, so was the Chevy! It was assembled and 'tweaked' in England.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:34:30 -0400, flobert wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:00:18 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>
>>After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
>>Indy Racing League (IRL)
>>
>>Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
>>British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>>likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
>>stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese when
>>it comes to engines!
>
> Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the close racing of the new
> A1 series. 3rd ever meting (races 5 and 6) are this weekend, i think -
> www.a1gp.com
>
> The american and Japaneese teams haven't done so well, britain and
> canada did well as did New Zeland. Oh and its a british made engine.


Hmmmm....sort of a WorldWide IRL. Looks like the spirit of the IRL; the
cars are all basically the same and have similar engines (if not the SAME
engine!)

So what happens is, it doesn't come down to how much MONEY you throw at
it, but the skill of the driver. i like that!

When Penske was kicking butt in the CART series, as in F1, it was how much
MONEY you had that determined who own the race. When IRL came along I was
initially against it, but it leveled tha playing field and brought the
competition back to the cockpit rather than the garage itself.

This is the first I have heard of A1. Thanks!

I find it interesting that NASCAR has it's own little clique of Dodge, Chevy
and Ford-and it gets all the media attention. I am assuming all the rules
and regs for their cars are to mainly keep out Toyota and Honda from
breaking into their little club. When I grew up, the Indy cars had all the
attention. I wondered why you have to really dig to find news about Indy
now. I find the cars are all Toyota and Honda. Thank you Danika Patrick for
bringing some attention back to Indy. When I hear who ever won the recent
NASCAR race, I think to myself, "It must have been his turn to win."
"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
newsan.2005.10.17.00.00.56.905007@ae86.gts...
> After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
> Indy Racing League (IRL)
>
> Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
> British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
> likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
> stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese when
> it comes to engines!

Perhaps that is the reason nobody suports indy car racing any more.

mike hunt


"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:KeudneOqv_7N1MjeRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
>I find it interesting that NASCAR has it's own little clique of Dodge,
>Chevy and Ford-and it gets all the media attention. I am assuming all the
>rules and regs for their cars are to mainly keep out Toyota and Honda from
>breaking into their little club. When I grew up, the Indy cars had all the
>attention. I wondered why you have to really dig to find news about Indy
>now. I find the cars are all Toyota and Honda. Thank you Danika Patrick for
>bringing some attention back to Indy. When I hear who ever won the recent
>NASCAR race, I think to myself, "It must have been his turn to win."
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> newsan.2005.10.17.00.00.56.905007@ae86.gts...
>> After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
>> Indy Racing League (IRL)
>>
>> Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
>> British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>> likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
>> stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese
>> when
>> it comes to engines!
>
>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:13:21 -0400, Bob Palmer wrote:

> I find it interesting that NASCAR has it's own little clique of Dodge, Chevy
> and Ford-and it gets all the media attention. I am assuming all the rules
> and regs for their cars are to mainly keep out Toyota and Honda from
> breaking into their little club. When I grew up, the Indy cars had all the
> attention. I wondered why you have to really dig to find news about Indy
> now. I find the cars are all Toyota and Honda. Thank you Danika Patrick for
> bringing some attention back to Indy. When I hear who ever won the recent
> NASCAR race, I think to myself, "It must have been his turn to win."

Man, have you seen the Antifreeze commercial with Danic?!?!

Whoooo Hooooo!


> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> newsan.2005.10.17.00.00.56.905007@ae86.gts...
>> After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
>> Indy Racing League (IRL)
>>
>> Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
>> British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>> likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
>> stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese when
>> it comes to engines!

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:19:16 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:34:30 -0400, flobert wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:00:18 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>>
>>>After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
>>>Indy Racing League (IRL)
>>>
>>>Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
>>>British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>>>likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
>>>stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese when
>>>it comes to engines!
>>
>> Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the close racing of the new
>> A1 series. 3rd ever meting (races 5 and 6) are this weekend, i think -
>> www.a1gp.com
>>
>> The american and Japaneese teams haven't done so well, britain and
>> canada did well as did New Zeland. Oh and its a british made engine.
>
>
>Hmmmm....sort of a WorldWide IRL. Looks like the spirit of the IRL; the
>cars are all basically the same and have similar engines (if not the SAME
>engine!)

Yes, they're all the same engine. The cars are all made by raynard to
the prince's spec, and he bought all 50 for the teams (2 per team, 25
country-teams). Cars designed to make a big hole in the air behind, to
help with overtaking, plus a push-to-pass boost button. All engines
made by a company called Zytec, and lots of scrutineers around to make
sure everyones the same. Everyones even running the same cooper tyres,
although theere are 2 different compounds available

>
>So what happens is, it doesn't come down to how much MONEY you throw at
>it, but the skill of the driver. i like that!

Driver AND pitcrew. There's a manditory pit stop to change all 4 tyres
in the 'feature race'

>
>When Penske was kicking butt in the CART series, as in F1, it was how much
>MONEY you had that determined who own the race. When IRL came along I was
>initially against it, but it leveled tha playing field and brought the
>competition back to the cockpit rather than the garage itself.
>
>This is the first I have heard of A1. Thanks!

no probs. For those that don't know, the race format goes like this...
Theres a free practice on the friday
saturday a little practice, and then 4 qualifying sessiosn. Each one
is 15 minutes long, and teams are allowed an out lap, a flying lap,
and a in lap in each. something like 5-10mins between each sessions.
They then take the drivers best TWO times, and add them together, and
base the grid for the sprint off that There is only one car for each
team, so no blocking, team orders etc.

Sprint race is about 18 laps, or half an hour long. Takes place about
1:30pm on the sunday. No pit stops etc. 10 for first, 9 for second and
so on, down to 1 for 10th. Finishing order is then the grid for the
longer feature race that takes place around 3pm. its a hour/36ish lap
race, with a manditory tyre change pitstop. Standing start, F1 style.
Pits are one person per wheel, and no-one to leave the garage, except
the flagman, until the cars stopped. , and the cars must make a pass
over the start-finish line at racing speed with both sets of tyres.
Same points layout for the finish of the feature race, and therse an
aditional point to whoever gets the fastest lap over the two races.
Thats is basiaclly. The engines are 520hp standard, 550hp when under
the 'power boost' (get 4 in the sprint, and 8 in the feature - they're
limited to 30second length, and only work when you've got your
throttle wide open, press the button when you're braking, and you've
wasted one.

Very good, close racing, and a wide range of experiance too, from
former F1 driver jos Verstappen for Holland, down (i don't know if the
russian and chineese drivers ever really did single-seater racing
before)

"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:KeudneOqv_7N1MjeRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
>I find it interesting that NASCAR has it's own little clique of Dodge,
>Chevy and Ford-and it gets all the media attention. I am assuming all the
>rules and regs for their cars are to mainly keep out Toyota and Honda from
>breaking into their little club.

NASCAR has created rules that make the cars from all the manufacturers
essentially the same. Toyota is already competing in the truck series and
will eventually move to the Nextel cup. It is pointless who is identified as
the "manufacturer." The rules are super restrictive. There is no
"technology" competition. If Toyota races cars in the Nextel Cup races, they
will be essentially the same as the "Fords," "Chevrolets," and "Dodges." The
major differences are the decals and the shape of the grille opening. Any
series that tries to control things down to the point of specifying rear
gear ratios, shock absorber designs, and spring rates can hardly be
encouraging innovations. The most important thing is to get a good team.
Winning and loosing depends on fine details. The biggest change in NASCAR
since 1965 is aerodynamics. NASCAR is doing its best to make sure that all
the cars are aerodynamically the same. Strip off the bodies and most of the
parts will look just like a combination of 1965 Ford front suspension and
1965 GMC Truck rear suspension bolted to a homemade tube frame. Think of
NASCAR as WWE in cars with a more corrupt body enforcing the rules.

Ed

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:30:20 -0400, flobert wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:19:16 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:34:30 -0400, flobert wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:00:18 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>>>
>>>>After today's race, Chevrolet dropped out as a supplier of engines to the
>>>>Indy Racing League (IRL)
>>>>
>>>>Interesting. Although previous Indianapolis 500's have had their share of
>>>>British engines as well as American iron, the 2006 Indy 500 will most
>>>>likely be a fight between the best from Honda and Toyota. There may be a
>>>>stray entry of an older car with a Chevy, but IRL is now All Japanese when
>>>>it comes to engines!
>>>
>>> Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the close racing of the new
>>> A1 series. 3rd ever meting (races 5 and 6) are this weekend, i think -
>>> www.a1gp.com
>>>
>>> The american and Japaneese teams haven't done so well, britain and
>>> canada did well as did New Zeland. Oh and its a british made engine.
>>
>>
>>Hmmmm....sort of a WorldWide IRL. Looks like the spirit of the IRL; the
>>cars are all basically the same and have similar engines (if not the SAME
>>engine!)
>
> Yes, they're all the same engine. The cars are all made by raynard to
> the prince's spec, and he bought all 50 for the teams (2 per team, 25
> country-teams). Cars designed to make a big hole in the air behind, to
> help with overtaking, plus a push-to-pass boost button. All engines
> made by a company called Zytec, and lots of scrutineers around to make
> sure everyones the same. Everyones even running the same cooper tyres,
> although theere are 2 different compounds available
>
>>
>>So what happens is, it doesn't come down to how much MONEY you throw at
>>it, but the skill of the driver. i like that!
>
> Driver AND pitcrew. There's a manditory pit stop to change all 4 tyres
> in the 'feature race'
>
>>
>>When Penske was kicking butt in the CART series, as in F1, it was how much
>>MONEY you had that determined who own the race. When IRL came along I was
>>initially against it, but it leveled tha playing field and brought the
>>competition back to the cockpit rather than the garage itself.
>>
>>This is the first I have heard of A1. Thanks!
>
> no probs. For those that don't know, the race format goes like this...
> Theres a free practice on the friday
> saturday a little practice, and then 4 qualifying sessiosn. Each one
> is 15 minutes long, and teams are allowed an out lap, a flying lap,
> and a in lap in each. something like 5-10mins between each sessions.
> They then take the drivers best TWO times, and add them together, and
> base the grid for the sprint off that There is only one car for each
> team, so no blocking, team orders etc.
>
> Sprint race is about 18 laps, or half an hour long. Takes place about
> 1:30pm on the sunday. No pit stops etc. 10 for first, 9 for second and
> so on, down to 1 for 10th. Finishing order is then the grid for the
> longer feature race that takes place around 3pm. its a hour/36ish lap
> race, with a manditory tyre change pitstop. Standing start, F1 style.
> Pits are one person per wheel, and no-one to leave the garage, except
> the flagman, until the cars stopped. , and the cars must make a pass
> over the start-finish line at racing speed with both sets of tyres.
> Same points layout for the finish of the feature race, and therse an
> aditional point to whoever gets the fastest lap over the two races.
> Thats is basiaclly. The engines are 520hp standard, 550hp when under
> the 'power boost' (get 4 in the sprint, and 8 in the feature - they're
> limited to 30second length, and only work when you've got your
> throttle wide open, press the button when you're braking, and you've
> wasted one.
>
> Very good, close racing, and a wide range of experiance too, from
> former F1 driver jos Verstappen for Holland, down (i don't know if the
> russian and chineese drivers ever really did single-seater racing
> before)


"THE Prince"? Which Prince? You DON'T mean "The Artist" I am assuming!

Interesting. So THAT'S where Verstappen went!

Hopefully, someone will pick this up on this side of the Pond!