Honda Car Forum

Hello,

I have posted a similar message last week regarding my 98 Civic LX
ignition timing. I have originally replaced the distributor, but my
ignition timing was retarded by aprox 14 degrees. Thanks to the usefull
comments on this group, I have checked my timing belt alignment.
Because I wasn't sure if it was the original timing belt, I changed it
as well as the water pump. Less $100 for the next 90000 peace of mind.
When I put everything together, I've made sure that the camshaft and
everything else was properly alligned. After everything was put
together, I have checked my timing, while the service connector on the
passager side was jumpered, and it seemed to be perfect. The engine
pointer was alligned with the middle marker of the three when I first
started. I was happy, and I left the car running for about 10 minutes
because Haynes recomends to adjust the timing after the engine is warm
and the cooling fan starts. I walked away for 10 minutes with the car
running, but when I came back the timing was retarded again. It seemed
very weird especially that I've jumpered the service connector. I
thought that the timing belt jumped a tooth again. I checked the timing
belt alignment again and it seemed fine. The camshaft markers were
aligned with the cylinder head block and the crankshaft pulley was
poiting to the TDC mark (the white one). The car runs fine, without any
noticeable loss of power, but I'm a little worried about why my timing
is off. Right now the timing is.
V
||| |
Maybe I'm not jumpering the right service connector, but it is the one
that shows me emission control codes (flashing engine light). I don't
have any engine light codes though. I'm puzzled why the timing retarded
while I walked away from the car. I can't advance the distributor any
further. Is there another special disconnect for the ignition timing?

Thank you for your advice.

<acioaca@lycos.com> wrote
> I was happy, and I left the car running for about 10 minutes
> because Haynes recomends to adjust the timing after the engine is warm
> and the cooling fan starts.

Little aside that could be a bit important:

Does your cooling fan really start after only ten minutes?

Even in summer-y weather, my 1991 Civic's radiator fan takes at least 35
minutes of idling before it comes on.

acioaca@lycos.com wrote in
news:1128184561.622447.285890@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:


<snip>


> I'm a little worried about why my timing
> is off. Right now the timing is.
> V
>||| |
> Maybe I'm not jumpering the right service connector, but it is the one
> that shows me emission control codes (flashing engine light).


It's a 2-pin connector with brown and black wires. It's under the dash on
the passenger side.



> I don't
> have any engine light codes though. I'm puzzled why the timing retarded
> while I walked away from the car. I can't advance the distributor any
> further. Is there another special disconnect for the ignition timing?
>
> Thank you for your advice.
>
>


Are you sure you're connecting the timing light to the #1 plug wire? If the
light is inductive, make sure it's clipped to the plug wire as far as
possible from any other wire.

If you've been jumping the correct wire, you may be probably picking up the
signal from a different plug. (#3?)

If the above is true, your plug wires are electrically leaky and in need of
replacement (with OEM!).


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns96E284B50D25Ctegger@207.14.113.17:


>
> If you've been jumping the correct wire,


Typo: I meant to say jumping the correct under-dash CONNECTOR.

The timing connector and the Service Check connector appear to be the same
thing.



> you may be probably picking
> up the signal from a different plug. (#3?)
>
> If the above is true, your plug wires are electrically leaky and in
> need of replacement (with OEM!).
>
>



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

After further investigating, I have found the following. Immediately as
the car starts the timing is ok. Then, the timing retards after 10-20
seconds. The service connector is jumpered because the engine light
stays on when the car starts. I've made sure not to be around any other
wires when testing. Right now, I'm connecting to the #1 wire close to
the spark plug end. The wires and spark plugs were replaced with new
ones while I was debugging the bad distributor problem. I've bought the
wires from Autozone, are they OEM? I will try to change with the old
ones. By the way I found a good link for replacing the timing belt:
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0406ht_timing/
Tegger, please add it the website so others can use it.
Thanks.

acioaca@lycos.com wrote:
> After further investigating, I have found the following. Immediately as
> the car starts the timing is ok. Then, the timing retards after 10-20
> seconds. The service connector is jumpered because the engine light
> stays on when the car starts.

"because"??? what code are you getting?

> I've made sure not to be around any other
> wires when testing. Right now, I'm connecting to the #1 wire close to
> the spark plug end. The wires and spark plugs were replaced with new
> ones while I was debugging the bad distributor problem. I've bought the
> wires from Autozone, are they OEM? I will try to change with the old
> ones. By the way I found a good link for replacing the timing belt:
> http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0406ht_timing/
> Tegger, please add it the website so others can use it.
> Thanks.
>

I meant the engine light stays on when you have the service connector
jumpered. If there are errors it flashes. I don't have any codes and it
only stays on. When I pull out the service connector jumper, it goes
off. I think this is normal.

acioaca@lycos.com wrote in
news:1128211156.028337.322650@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:

> After further investigating, I have found the following. Immediately as
> the car starts the timing is ok. Then, the timing retards after 10-20
> seconds.


You should have the engine *fully-warm* before you attempt to adjust the
timing. Go take it for a fifteen-minute drive first, THEN adjust the
timing.

If the engine is fully-warm, and the timing light is hooked up, and you
adjust the distributor so the timing marks are correctly lined up, and you
wait 10-15 seconds, does the timing then suddenly jump to retarded?



> The service connector is jumpered because the engine light
> stays on when the car starts. I've made sure not to be around any other
> wires when testing. Right now, I'm connecting to the #1 wire close to
> the spark plug end. The wires and spark plugs were replaced with new
> ones while I was debugging the bad distributor problem. I've bought the
> wires from Autozone, are they OEM?


NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are aftermarket!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to the dealer for OEM. Although in this case it will make no difference
to what you're seeing with your timing.



> I will try to change with the old
> ones. By the way I found a good link for replacing the timing belt:
> http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0406ht_timing/
> Tegger, please add it the website so others can use it.


Another thing to add to my list. Thanks for the link.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

acioaca@lycos.com wrote:
> I meant the engine light stays on when you have the service connector
> jumpered. If there are errors it flashes. I don't have any codes and it
> only stays on. When I pull out the service connector jumper, it goes
> off. I think this is normal.
>
go to a store that will read the codes stored in your ecu for you, or go
to sears & buy a $160 code reader for yourself. your onboard
diagnostics will tell you if there are any other problems before you
start messing about with the timing. and why did you change the
distributor? what code was stored then?

jim beam wrote:
> acioaca@lycos.com wrote:
> > I meant the engine light stays on when you have the service connector
> > jumpered. If there are errors it flashes. I don't have any codes and it
> > only stays on. When I pull out the service connector jumper, it goes
> > off. I think this is normal.
> >
> go to a store that will read the codes stored in your ecu for you, or go
> to sears & buy a $160 code reader for yourself. your onboard
> diagnostics will tell you if there are any other problems before you
> start messing about with the timing. and why did you change the
> distributor? what code was stored then?

Jim

There were never any engine codes. After a serious rain over a weekend
the car stopped suddenly after 10 seconds after starting the following
monday. I have replaced the spark plugs, wires, distributor cap,
distributor rotor, ignition switch, map sensor, main relay and fuel
filter without any success. I was getting sparks on each wire when I
was cranking the car and the injectors were firing. Also I was hearing
the fuel pump working when the ignition was on. I didn't no what to do
so I took it to a shop for a diagnostic. They called me the next day
saying that the Kv were not consistent and offered to replace the
distributor. I refused, because it's cheaper to change it myself. When
I came to pick up my car from them, I drove it home, but they've told
me that they don't know how long it'll run. I've replaced the
distributor and now it runs even after it rains. The only issue I have
now is alligning the timing. Again, my engine light is not on unless I
jumper the service connector. That should be normal because that's how
you read the engine light flashes.