Honda Car Forum

My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg

The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
structure - am I correct?

My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
sensible?

Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.

Thanks! Jez

P.S. there is no rust behind, only where visible on the outer-facing
surface.

Jez <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in
news:g4Kdnf_t9f0YTa7enZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@pipex.net:

> My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
> posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg



Extremely common. Also check the other end of the wheelarch where it meets
the rear bumper. If you don't have rust there now, you'll have it soon.


>
> The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
> the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
> structure - am I correct?



Not unless somebody has already tried to fix it. And it seems to me someone
already has...

Have you got the car's old MoT sheets?



>
> My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
> I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
> sensible?



Nope. That rust is coming from the INSIDE, on account of condensation. It's
too late now unless you do lots of cutting and letting in new metal. You
can do whatever you like to the outside, and it will bubble back up again
in a year or so.

If you really feel strongly about it, sell the car, buy a brand-new one,
then apply cavity wax immediately you take possession.


>
> Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
> elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
> there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.


It drains, but since it's enclosed and has trouble evaporating quickly, it
sticks around long enough to eat through the dip primer and cause rusting.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

I tried a similar repair on my '94 Integra. Six months later the rust was
back, so I had a pro do it over. Been fine now for several years.

--
Bob Burns
Mill Hall PA
(email is spamtrap)


"Jez" <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in message
news:g4Kdnf_t9f0YTa7enZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@pipex.net...
> My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've posted
> a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>
> The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
> the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
> structure - am I correct?
>
> My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal. I'll
> then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
> sensible?
>
> Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
> elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
> there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.
>
> Thanks! Jez
>
> P.S. there is no rust behind, only where visible on the outer-facing
> surface.

Jez wrote:
> My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
> posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>
> The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
> the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
> structure - am I correct?
>
> My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
> I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
> sensible?
>
> Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
> elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
> there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.
>
> Thanks! Jez
>
> P.S. there is no rust behind, only where visible on the outer-facing
> surface.

I'd paint the rusty areas with POR-15 (a paint converter/stopper)
first. If you can, replace the panel with a replacement panel.
If the rust is under the paint, get it down to bare metal first.

Remco

"Jez" <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote
> My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
> posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>
> The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
> the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
> structure - am I correct?
>
> My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
> I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
> sensible?

Yes. Pep Boys (an American discount auto parts store), for one, has a
section dedicated to body repair plastics etc. I suggest perusing this area.
If you're in the UK, I expect similar auto parts stores would have similar
sections.

I had a more extensive problem in the same area on my 1991 Civic LX, but
with both rear wheel arches.

I cleaned the areas as best I could, then applied a few layers of x, y, z
body filler (can't remember which one I used) from Pep Boys over a few
weeks. I used some netted backing tape (ordinarily for house wall plaster
repair jobs) among the layers to promote support. All was let dry, then
sanded a little, rinsed, let dry, then spray painted with a can of "Color
Place RustControl Spray Enamel" from Wal-Mart. It's a high gloss paint that
had a close match to my car's color. (Masking taped the parts I didn't want
the high gloss on). Looks much _much_ better. It's held up over a year now.
It's firm to the touch and shows no evidence of deterioration.

The amount you have to repair looks easy in comparison.

> Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
> elsewhere?

Not sure. I do know the rust has not returned on my 91 Civic. On the other
hand, my 91 Civic was driven in the snowy northern U.S. for something like
2/3rds of its life. It now resides in the much drier (but still sometimes
rainy or snowy) Western U.S.

TeGGeR® wrote:
> Jez <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in
> news:g4Kdnf_t9f0YTa7enZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@pipex.net:
>
>
>>My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
>>posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>
>
>
>
> Extremely common. Also check the other end of the wheelarch where it meets
> the rear bumper. If you don't have rust there now, you'll have it soon.
>

All other areas seem to be fine at the moment but I'll keep a keen eye
on them.

>
>
>>The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
>>the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
>>structure - am I correct?
>
>
>
>
> Not unless somebody has already tried to fix it. And it seems to me someone
> already has...

Both panels (on both sides) sound hollow. There isn't any damage on the
right side but when I tap it, it really does sound like fibreglass ?

>
> Have you got the car's old MoT sheets?
>
>
For the past few years. I've had it MoT'd recently without any trouble.
Do you think this will cause trouble in the future? It doesn't seem to
be affecting important sections (e.g. chassis). I can contact the
previous owner who will know if any work has been done.

>
>
>>My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
>>I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
>>sensible?
>
>
>
>
> Nope. That rust is coming from the INSIDE, on account of condensation. It's
> too late now unless you do lots of cutting and letting in new metal. You
> can do whatever you like to the outside, and it will bubble back up again
> in a year or so.
>
> If you really feel strongly about it, sell the car, buy a brand-new one,
> then apply cavity wax immediately you take possession.
>
I'm confused about the cavity wax - you said above that it shouldn't
have any cavities unless somebody has tried to repair the panel? How
would a new car need cavity wax?

>
>
>>Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
>>elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
>>there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.
>
>
>
> It drains, but since it's enclosed and has trouble evaporating quickly, it
> sticks around long enough to eat through the dip primer and cause rusting.
>
>
>
Thanks for the help.. I might take it to an expert. I'd like to keep
this car for a good few years - I'm a student at the moment and haven't
got money to spend on a new car.

Yeah, mine was rusting around all 4 wheel wells. I sanded it it under there
was nothing left but a hole, filled it in with some sort of putty and
fiberglass, painted it with rust paint on the outside, and but some rubber
underbody spray on the inside, it stayed good for the next couple years,
then I sold it, so who knows it might have started rusting again right away
for the new owner

"Bob Burns" <treborburns@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:84SYe.3000$QE1.577@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
>I tried a similar repair on my '94 Integra. Six months later the rust was
>back, so I had a pro do it over. Been fine now for several years.
>
> --
> Bob Burns
> Mill Hall PA
> (email is spamtrap)
>
>
> "Jez" <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:g4Kdnf_t9f0YTa7enZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@pipex.net...
>> My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
>> posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>>
>> The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
>> the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
>> structure - am I correct?
>>
>> My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
>> I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
>> sensible?
>>
>> Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
>> elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
>> there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.
>>
>> Thanks! Jez
>>
>> P.S. there is no rust behind, only where visible on the outer-facing
>> surface.
>
>

Jez <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in
news:J4SdnenpU5-FiqnenZ2dnUVZ8qWdnZ2d@pipex.net:

> TeGGeR® wrote:
>> Jez <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in
>> news:g4Kdnf_t9f0YTa7enZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@pipex.net:
>>
>>
>>>My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
>>>posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Extremely common. Also check the other end of the wheelarch where it
>> meets the rear bumper. If you don't have rust there now, you'll have
>> it soon.
>>
>
> All other areas seem to be fine at the moment but I'll keep a keen eye
> on them.



They go from the inside out, so by the time you see it, it's too late.

Remeber the exterior panels have paint to protect the, but the insides of
those same panels have primer only.

>
>>
>>
>>>The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole
>>>to the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
>>>structure - am I correct?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Not unless somebody has already tried to fix it. And it seems to me
>> someone already has...
>
> Both panels (on both sides) sound hollow. There isn't any damage on
> the right side but when I tap it, it really does sound like fibreglass
> ?




It should not be. Honda uses only steel there, and the area is quite hollow
as it consists of sheet steel panels spot-welded together. There ought to
be no foam, fiberglass, or crumpled newspaper in there. Your photo looks
very much like someone has at one time made a valiant effort to get past
the MoT.




>
>>
>> Have you got the car's old MoT sheets?
>>
>>
> For the past few years. I've had it MoT'd recently without any
> trouble. Do you think this will cause trouble in the future? It
> doesn't seem to be affecting important sections (e.g. chassis). I can
> contact the previous owner who will know if any work has been done.




You will only fail if the MoT inspector reckons the jagged rust is a hazard
to pedestrians (true!), ...OR... if the rust is deemed to be within 30cm
(12") of a structural area. Since the sills are considered structural, that
hole is potentially within the fail zone.


Come MoT time, you may have no choice but to have it welded up, umless you
can bodge it convincingly enough that the MoT man does not spot it.



>
>>
>>
>>>My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
>>>I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that
>>>sound sensible?



That's iffy. You need to make sure the MoT man decides that that area is
not "structural", and if he thinks it's structural, then he needs to miss
spotting your filler repair. And I can't say from where I am...



>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope. That rust is coming from the INSIDE, on account of
>> condensation. It's too late now unless you do lots of cutting and
>> letting in new metal. You can do whatever you like to the outside,
>> and it will bubble back up again in a year or so.
>>
>> If you really feel strongly about it, sell the car, buy a brand-new
>> one, then apply cavity wax immediately you take possession.
>>
> I'm confused about the cavity wax - you said above that it shouldn't
> have any cavities unless somebody has tried to repair the panel? How
> would a new car need cavity wax?



You know how when it rains the paint gets wet? Well a similar thing is
happening to the INSIDE of the metal as well. It also gets wet. But because
the interior is enclosed, it takes a long time to dry out, meaning the
water (and winter salt) has an extended time to munch through the primer
and start the steel rusting.

The only way of preventing this is to keep the water away from the steel,
and that's done in the UK with cavity wax, like Finnegan's Waxoyl, or
Dinitrol. If you can keep the water from touching the inside faces of the
steel, you'll prevent most of your internal rust, which is the kind that's
fatal to the car.



>
>>
>>
>>>Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
>>>elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork
>>>and there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.
>>
>>
>>
>> It drains, but since it's enclosed and has trouble evaporating
>> quickly, it sticks around long enough to eat through the dip primer
>> and cause rusting.
>>
>>
>>
> Thanks for the help.. I might take it to an expert. I'd like to keep
> this car for a good few years - I'm a student at the moment and
> haven't got money to spend on a new car.



I know exactly where you're coming from. Wish I could help more.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Jez" <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in message
news:g4Kdnf_t9f0YTa7enZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@pipex.net...
> My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've posted
> a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>
> The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
> the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
> structure - am I correct?
>
> My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal. I'll
> then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
> sensible?
>
> Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
> elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
> there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.
>
> Thanks! Jez
>
> P.S. there is no rust behind, only where visible on the outer-facing
> surface.

You have gotten some good advice from other posters but allow me to add one
thing. A large part of the problem arises from the collection of dirt in the
hollow area and the "U" shaped rim around the wheel opening. That channel
fills with dirt and when it gets wet it holds the moisture for a long time
causing the area to rust badly.. Before you do any spraying, painting, etc.,
clean all of the dirt, mud, and debris out of that channel and from the
inside of the fender. ...

Dave Dodson

I'm having the same problem. Can you send me the answer when you figure it
out?

Tom
tomsmith@postmasternetworks.com


"Jez" <jeremy@ainsworth.me.uk> wrote in message
news:g4Kdnf_t9f0YTa7enZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@pipex.net...
> My civic has some rust at the base of the rear left wheelarch. I've
> posted a photo: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~jainsw/civicrust.jpg
>
> The panel seems to be at least partly hollow which explains the hole to
> the left side. I've peered inside and I think it's a fibreglass
> structure - am I correct?
>
> My plan is to sand down the area further and use body filler to seal.
> I'll then sand the dried filler and spray accordingly. Does that sound
> sensible?
>
> Just in case some water has entered the cavity, will it drain out
> elsewhere? The plastic trim is plugged into that section of bodywork and
> there weren't any signs of water when I took out the plugs.
>
> Thanks! Jez
>
> P.S. there is no rust behind, only where visible on the outer-facing
> surface.