Honda Car Forum

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96D3DDEF9EB23tegger@207.14.113.17...
>
> I like my manual in any case. Just today I spent a half-hour blipping
> forwards a few feet at a time on the freeway to get past an accident.
> Better that than lose control the rest of the time with an automatic.

This last sentence is quite the bizarre statement. Are you saying that you
can't maintain care and control of a vehicle with an automatic transmission?
If you're not saying that, what thought exactly are you trying to convey?
{;^)

Brian

"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message
news:K1SWe.171790$wr.34624@clgrps12...
>
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D3DDEF9EB23tegger@207.14.113.17...
>>
>> I like my manual in any case. Just today I spent a half-hour blipping
>> forwards a few feet at a time on the freeway to get past an accident.
>> Better that than lose control the rest of the time with an automatic.
>
> This last sentence is quite the bizarre statement. Are you saying that you
> can't maintain care and control of a vehicle with an automatic
> transmission? If you're not saying that, what thought exactly are you
> trying to convey? {;^)
>
> Brian
>
>
I think the sentiment is the same I have with automatic transmissions - they
choose the gear they think is best, which isn't always suited to my purpose.
It is more often a subjective thing than an objective thing, but the bottom
line is that 100% of the time the manual tranny is in the gear I want while
an automatic rates more like 90%... with the remaining 10% being annoying. I
especially hate automatic shifts on slippery roads. It's like having a demon
give your car a little *nudge* whenever he feels like it.

My job takes me off-road a lot (I describe the job as "taking computer age
skills to the end of bronze age roads in any weather at any time"). Some of
the roads are intense 4WD, others are miles-long sand pits. Some people
don't mind automatics in their trucks, but I had to borrow a truck with an
automatic once and I swore I'd never do that again. It upshifted when it
wanted, not when I wanted.

To each their own.

Mike

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message
> news:K1SWe.171790$wr.34624@clgrps12...
>
>>"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>news:Xns96D3DDEF9EB23tegger@207.14.113.17...
>>
>>>I like my manual in any case. Just today I spent a half-hour blipping
>>>forwards a few feet at a time on the freeway to get past an accident.
>>>Better that than lose control the rest of the time with an automatic.
>>
>>This last sentence is quite the bizarre statement. Are you saying that you
>>can't maintain care and control of a vehicle with an automatic
>>transmission? If you're not saying that, what thought exactly are you
>>trying to convey? {;^)
>>
>>Brian
>>
>>
>
> I think the sentiment is the same I have with automatic transmissions - they
> choose the gear they think is best, which isn't always suited to my purpose.
> It is more often a subjective thing than an objective thing, but the bottom
> line is that 100% of the time the manual tranny is in the gear I want while
> an automatic rates more like 90%... with the remaining 10% being annoying. I
> especially hate automatic shifts on slippery roads. It's like having a demon
> give your car a little *nudge* whenever he feels like it.
>
> My job takes me off-road a lot (I describe the job as "taking computer age
> skills to the end of bronze age roads in any weather at any time"). Some of
> the roads are intense 4WD, others are miles-long sand pits. Some people
> don't mind automatics in their trucks, but I had to borrow a truck with an
> automatic once and I swore I'd never do that again. It upshifted when it
> wanted, not when I wanted.
>
> To each their own.
>
> Mike
>
>
what vintage automatic truck was it and did it have electronic shift
control? and how can it upshift when you have manual over-ride?

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:UuydnQ-F6pBErrHeRVn-rQ@speakeasy.net...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message
>> news:K1SWe.171790$wr.34624@clgrps12...
>>
>>>"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>>news:Xns96D3DDEF9EB23tegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>
>>>>I like my manual in any case. Just today I spent a half-hour blipping
>>>>forwards a few feet at a time on the freeway to get past an accident.
>>>>Better that than lose control the rest of the time with an automatic.
>>>
>>>This last sentence is quite the bizarre statement. Are you saying that
>>>you can't maintain care and control of a vehicle with an automatic
>>>transmission? If you're not saying that, what thought exactly are you
>>>trying to convey? {;^)
>>>
>>>Brian
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think the sentiment is the same I have with automatic transmissions -
>> they choose the gear they think is best, which isn't always suited to my
>> purpose. It is more often a subjective thing than an objective thing, but
>> the bottom line is that 100% of the time the manual tranny is in the gear
>> I want while an automatic rates more like 90%... with the remaining 10%
>> being annoying. I especially hate automatic shifts on slippery roads.
>> It's like having a demon give your car a little *nudge* whenever he feels
>> like it.
>>
>> My job takes me off-road a lot (I describe the job as "taking computer
>> age skills to the end of bronze age roads in any weather at any time").
>> Some of the roads are intense 4WD, others are miles-long sand pits. Some
>> people don't mind automatics in their trucks, but I had to borrow a truck
>> with an automatic once and I swore I'd never do that again. It upshifted
>> when it wanted, not when I wanted.
>>
>> To each their own.
>>
>> Mike
> what vintage automatic truck was it and did it have electronic shift
> control? and how can it upshift when you have manual over-ride?
>
It was a 1993 Ford F-250, but I doubt the new ones are any better. Our
department standard is manuals, both for ruggedness and control, but the guy
who originally had the truck insisted on an automatic. He was pretty odd
anyway. Automatics can be forced to downshift but (most) can't be forced to
upshift. You can allow it to shift, but the actual upshift takes place when
it's ready, not when you're ready.

I also can't stand the loss of being able to tell when the wheels are
spinning by listening to the engine sound - but for those who never
encounter mud, snow or ice it probably isn't a consideration.

I agree that automatics are nice for driving around town or on the highway
in good conditions.

Mike

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:UuydnQ-F6pBErrHeRVn-rQ@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>>"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message
>>>news:K1SWe.171790$wr.34624@clgrps12...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
>>>>news:Xns96D3DDEF9EB23tegger@207.14.113.17...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I like my manual in any case. Just today I spent a half-hour blipping
>>>>>forwards a few feet at a time on the freeway to get past an accident.
>>>>>Better that than lose control the rest of the time with an automatic.
>>>>
>>>>This last sentence is quite the bizarre statement. Are you saying that
>>>>you can't maintain care and control of a vehicle with an automatic
>>>>transmission? If you're not saying that, what thought exactly are you
>>>>trying to convey? {;^)
>>>>
>>>>Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I think the sentiment is the same I have with automatic transmissions -
>>>they choose the gear they think is best, which isn't always suited to my
>>>purpose. It is more often a subjective thing than an objective thing, but
>>>the bottom line is that 100% of the time the manual tranny is in the gear
>>>I want while an automatic rates more like 90%... with the remaining 10%
>>>being annoying. I especially hate automatic shifts on slippery roads.
>>>It's like having a demon give your car a little *nudge* whenever he feels
>>>like it.
>>>
>>>My job takes me off-road a lot (I describe the job as "taking computer
>>>age skills to the end of bronze age roads in any weather at any time").
>>>Some of the roads are intense 4WD, others are miles-long sand pits. Some
>>>people don't mind automatics in their trucks, but I had to borrow a truck
>>>with an automatic once and I swore I'd never do that again. It upshifted
>>>when it wanted, not when I wanted.
>>>
>>>To each their own.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>what vintage automatic truck was it and did it have electronic shift
>>control? and how can it upshift when you have manual over-ride?
>>
>
> It was a 1993 Ford F-250, but I doubt the new ones are any better. Our
> department standard is manuals, both for ruggedness and control, but the guy
> who originally had the truck insisted on an automatic. He was pretty odd
> anyway. Automatics can be forced to downshift but (most) can't be forced to
> upshift. You can allow it to shift, but the actual upshift takes place when
> it's ready, not when you're ready.
>
> I also can't stand the loss of being able to tell when the wheels are
> spinning by listening to the engine sound - but for those who never
> encounter mud, snow or ice it probably isn't a consideration.
>
> I agree that automatics are nice for driving around town or on the highway
> in good conditions.
>
> Mike
>
>
don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking your preference, but i don't
understand the upshift bit. it /can't/ upshift if you're manually
over-riding it. if you want it to shift "prematurely" for traction in
snow or mug, it shouldn't matter once you're under way. and with the
honda, you /do/ have the ability to pull away in "2", where first gear
will not engage.

In article <CYWdnVhmEcQqr7HenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@sedona.net>,
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

> To each their own.

"each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:AdOdnY7ksNsqobHeRVn-og@speakeasy.net...
> don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking your preference, but i don't
> understand the upshift bit. it /can't/ upshift if you're manually
> over-riding it. if you want it to shift "prematurely" for traction in
> snow or mug, it shouldn't matter once you're under way. and with the
> honda, you /do/ have the ability to pull away in "2", where first gear
> will not engage.
>
That's our confusion - my complaint is that they don't always upshift when
the shifter is moved to allow it. Unless the lower gear has been held longer
than the tranny would have held it, the tranny will wait until it thinks the
shift should be made. Again, in good driving conditions it is a minor
annoyance. In slippery conditions it is intolerable.

That truck I borrowed was the one I had when I was sent out in a snowstorm.
The freeway was moving as much as 40 mph in sheltered areas and as little as
5 mph in the worst. Since downshifting is the same as braking as far as
slippery roads are concerned, I wanted it to favor the highest practical
gear. Instead, the only way I could control what it did was to select a
lower gear than I wanted. More than once on upslopes I reached places where
the conditions were worse and I eased off on the gas to finesse my way
through. Instead the demon transmission took that as a sign to upshift, with
the little *nudge*. With a manual I would have been in that gear a long time
ago.

Mike

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-497EEA.12170017092005@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <CYWdnVhmEcQqr7HenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@sedona.net>,
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>> To each their own.
>
> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>
Sorry - I were confused ;-)

Say... isn't that his/her own? Or (shades of the 70s) "thon's" own?

Mike

Yea but how much shifting is done at highway seep? I saw this and I wonder
is the gearing is different. I could not find the gear ratios. I bet that
is the difference since they are both 5 speed trannys.
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96D2DFE85F2DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:RlhWe.106$Gg1.66@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net:
>
>> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>> > A. Smith wrote:
>>> > > Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
>>> > > 38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
>>> > > with the automatic.
>>> > >
>>> > > What's "wrong" here?
>>> >
>>> > nothing. the system's been programmed to shift for economy - after
>>> > all, the ecu /does/ know how much gas is being injected. pretty
>>> > simple.
>>>
>>> Right! I think you'll have a hard time getting lower mileage/gallon
>>> with a stick than an automatic on any of the new cars.
>>
>> One more voice: In fact, this trend has been going on for several
>> years. Many automatics have been trumping manual transmission cars for
>> fuel economy, back to the mid/late 1990s or so, IIRC. "Variable Valve
>> Timing and Lift Electronic Control" (VTEC) has been a big factor in
>> this, IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Automatics are far better than manuals all around these days. Computerized
> electronic controls trump human brains and muscles hands down.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:55:39 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>> To each their own.
>>
>> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>>
>Sorry - I were confused ;-)
>
>Say... isn't that his/her own? Or (shades of the 70s) "thon's" own?

Yeah, that's why some modern style manuals do now allow the plural in
such conditions.

J.